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One Dayers v NZL

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Pfitzy

Jason Little (69)
We're gettin' hammered. Nothing short of sheer arrogance in turning blind by Ponting though Clarke should have sent him back. Then for Clarke to run himself out ::)

Great bowling by the Kiwis. Vettori has always been a damn sight smarter than Ponting as a captain, and this time he's got almost as much talent to work with. Will be interesting to see what the Kiwis do against Tait...
 

Pfitzy

Jason Little (69)
Kiwis pull it off on the last ball - though they should have done it a lot easier bar a couple of dud decisions against McCullum (whose powers are well-known) and Broom (who looks to be a real talent).
 

mark_s

Chilla Wilson (44)
Its a pity the kiwis made hard going of what should have been an easy run chase as they deserved to win by plenty. (Actually I was flicking between the tennis and cricket last night and it looked like both the kiwis and Federor were going to be capable getting themselves out of winning positions, but only Fed Ex was ultimately successful).

For Aus, this was our worst performance in any form of cricket for a long long time. The last comparable performance I can recall was the ODI loss to the bangles just prior to the 2005 Ashes series. Evey aspect of our game needs improving - we have batters out of form (and, very disturbingly, some of them look like they are not trying to play their natural game), our bowlers are not consistent enough (and giving away way to many sundries every game) and our fielding is average at best (and this includes Haddin whose glovework has been sloppy for sometime now - its just not good enough). I think Ponting needs a rest - he will burn out if he keeps trying to hold this team together and we can't afford to lose him at the moment. I would swap him for Katich immediately, although that would mean we would lose one of our best fielders.

Otherwise, I am not sure there are any other selection quick fixes. The batting and bowling issues are mainly a confidence / concentration issue and can probably be rectified with some hard work and maybe a rejig of the middle order.
 

Virgil

Larry Dwyer (12)
Yep we made it harder then it should of been but with some help from dodgy umpires and a cheating OZ keeper.
Smallest rant in history over...for now.
 

Pfitzy

Jason Little (69)
The decision on McCullum was no dodgier than the decision on Dave Hussey. Step back Virg - no-one made Taylor hit the ball straight to Pup ;)

The Haddin one will always be one of these "did-he-cheat?" questions but I think he just got a bit too eager. The umps will definitely be watching next time.
 

Virgil

Larry Dwyer (12)
NTA said:
The decision on McCullum was no dodgier than the decision on Dave Hussey. Step back Virg - no-one made Taylor hit the ball straight to Pup ;)

The Haddin one will always be one of these "did-he-cheat?" questions but I think he just got a bit too eager. The umps will definitely be watching next time.

True, but up until Broom was sawn with a poor piece of cricket, he and Taylor looked very comfortable.
Its laughable the reactions from Ponting Haddin, coming across as some kind of victims.
Pathetic really, if they owned up and accepted a mistake was made it would have over with and everyone could move on.
 

PaarlBok

Rod McCall (65)
Virgil said:
Its laughable the reactions from Ponting Haddin, coming across as some kind of victims.
Pathetic really, if they owned up and accepted a mistake was made it would have over with and everyone could move on.
Forget it Virgie, that dont work. Hope your players will forget about this one as quick as possible and move on to the next match on friday. Thats what our lot did so effectively. Not smart work by the look of things for Vettori to do his press thingie. The smart move is to concentrate on the next one and forget about the past one. You'll never win against the Aus press lot, ask India & Harbijan.

I am just wandering about the writer of that"Now even this lot thinks they can beat us" article, just as much as McGrath's 3 zip one against our team.

The Proteas got a hero welcome when ariving at JoBurg on saturday. Usually the rugby players gets this after a WC win and deservingly so.
 

RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
Meanwhile:

The Commonwealth Bank Series squad is:M. Clarke (c) NSWM. Hussey (vc) WAN. Bracken NSWC. Ferguson SAB. Haddin NSWB. Hilfenhaus TASJ. Hopes QLDD. Hussey VICM. Johnson WAS. Tait SAD. Warner NSWC. White VICA. Voges WACommenting on the selection of the squads, NSP Chairman Andrew Hilditch said:?The National Selection Panel has selected a squad of 13 players for the next two Commonwealth Bank Series games. There are two changes to the squad. Shaun Marsh has been ruled out with a hamstring injury and, consistent with Cricket Australia?s policy on managing player workload, Ricky Ponting has not been named in this squad.?Naturally, as Australian captain, Ricky is keen to play every game and these next two games were no exception. However, it was always planned that Ricky would have a break at this time. While this is a difficult decision for the NSP, given the current performance of the team, in our view it is essential that Ricky has an opportunity to prepare for the forthcoming South Africa tour given his immense workload since the start of the India tour in late September last year.?Adam Voges and Callum Ferguson are additions to the squad. Both Adam and Callum are having very strong Ford Ranger Cup seasons. While it is a difficult time for the side it is very important that we continue to show faith and support this young side as we rebuild.?We believe that this group can get the job done against New Zealand. Adam Voges has been recalled after limited opportunities in the past and Callum Ferguson has been added for the first time to an Australian squad. Both are exciting young players with the attitude and talent to succeed at this level.? Last Game Next Game New Zealand
 

mark_s

Chilla Wilson (44)
PaarlBok said:
I am just wandering about the writer of that"Now even this lot thinks they can beat us" article, just as much as McGrath's 3 zip one against our team.

PB McGrath, with tongue firmly planetd in cheek, predicts an Aus clean sweep before every cricket series and has done so for some time and probably will keep doing so regardless of actual results. Most media know to ignore him now.
 
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Turban

Guest
Was a thrilling game. The screams of cheat are a little over the top. Haddin certianly is one if he did it deliberately, but to me it looked like he commited the crime by accident then wasn't man enough to own-up (not quite as bad as a cheat i guess..... :nta: ). It's not unheard of in other sports either. Plenty of club rugby players will act like they have scored a try while knowing full-well they haven't because there is no video ref and plenty of professional players try it too, with less success but it does occationally work.

It's a shit thing to do, if I was co-ordinated enough to play cricket I would hate to see a team-mate do it. However it's unfortunate to have been on the anniversary of the underarm incident and has thus been blown way out of proportion and has just fed Kiwi paranoia. I don't see it going into the cricket hall of infamy had it happened at any other time against any other team.

From the 600 replays i've subsequently endured I'd say the ball did knock the bails off, but it did so by hitting the end of Haddins gloves and didn't seem to ever have any direct contact with the stumps. His description of the ball hitting the bails and then his gloves is not too far off, it looks like the ball hit his gloves and took the bails simultaneously because the tips of his gloves were resting on the bails completely illegally. The ball may never have touched the bails but by having his gloves in front of the wicket it would have been very hard for him to take the ball and NOT knock the bails off at the same time.

As to his thoughts, only one person will know them. If he cheated he will know it and have to live with that. If he didn't then he will have learnt a great lesson about honestly and integrity.

I didn't think Australia had as much luck as is being claimed thou. It certainly wasn't as bad as Bucknor's effort in Sydney vs India, although the post-match conference between the teams was just as, if not more, heated.

Can't wait to see a ponting-less team, though it's a shame about Marsh's injury.
 

Virgil

Larry Dwyer (12)
Turban are you taking the piss?
600 replays and you still think the ball hit the bails, how can it have hit the bails when his gloves were in front of the stumps coming down and collect the ball.

Sorry but hes a fucken cheat who MUST have know his gloves knocked the bails off, look at his face right after it happens...
 

RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
Virgil said:
Turban are you taking the piss?
600 replays and you still think the ball hit the bails, how can it have hit the bails when his gloves were in front of the stumps coming down and collect the ball.

Sorry but hes a fucken cheat who MUST have know his gloves knocked the bails off, look at his face right after it happens...

I agree. Lost a lot of respect for the guy.
 

Virgil

Larry Dwyer (12)
Noddy said:
Virgil said:
Turban are you taking the piss?
600 replays and you still think the ball hit the bails, how can it have hit the bails when his gloves were in front of the stumps coming down and collect the ball.

Sorry but hes a fucken cheat who MUST have know his gloves knocked the bails off, look at his face right after it happens...

I agree. Lost a lot of respect for the guy.
If he actually came clean after wards and admited he made a mistake then it wouldnt be the way it is now. Whats made it worse is the piss poor response from Haddin and Ponting, and all this shit about Vettori calling Haddin a cheat.
He never used the cheat word, never. He simply said from Haddins reaction the guy must have known something was wrong with what happened. And a blind man can see thats exactly what took place.
 
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Turban

Guest
Virgil said:
Turban are you taking the piss?
600 replays and you still think the ball hit the bails, how can it have hit the bails when his gloves were in front of the stumps coming down and collect the ball.

Sorry but hes a fucken cheat who MUST have know his gloves knocked the bails off, look at his face right after it happens...

First off let me say I don't like Haddin, he has grown on me marginally (so i no longer hate him) by virtue of mass failings in the batting line-up and his relative, and limited success. He is really just keeping the gloves warm for Luke Ronchi. As it stands I don't get to watch much local cricket so I had never really grown to respect Haddin anyway. When Gilly retired and Haddin joined the team all I really knew about him is that Murali got him with a Doosra between the legs and made him look like a total goose.

Secondly, I think claiming such a close stumping (or a close catch for that matter) without question is the stuff of dickheads like Clarke and Ponting (now Haddin can join them). I DO NOT have any cricketing experience outside of kids stuff which i quit when I was 10, that was almost 20 yrs ago now, so I'm coming from a position of ignorance in terms of playing the game. I cannot say either way if he would/should have known what he did or what his intentions were and that is why I'm not going to call him a cheat. All I can do it look at the replay 600 times and say "This is what it looks like to me". To be honest I never focused on looking at his face, only his hands, will check that out when i get home as the replay is bookmarked.

I've never been a keeper, if anyone has and thinks he MUST have known and MUST be a cheat I would love to hear your opinion. I can't make that call because I have not got that experience and to my slow eyes it looks accdental. I said not admitting it is a totally shithouse thing to do, but it's not dissimilar from a rugby player claiming a try they know they didn't score and I think the date it occured has done Haddin no favours at all. I still think these are valid points.

Finally, I didn't say the ball hit the bails. I said the ball knocked the bails off indirectly by hitting his gloves into them. Watching the reply I didn't see how anyone could say he moved his hands to deliberatly knock the bails off after he caught it. I can see his gloves moving thou, due to the ball hitting them. He's a poor sport & he's a dickhead for not saying anything and I've lost the respect I had for him but I can't call him a cheat because cheating requires pre-meditation and it just looked like he wasn't man enought to admit he made a mistake.
 

mark_s

Chilla Wilson (44)
I still think the ball hit the bail see the footage at 1.30 at http://www.cricketcrowd.com/Play_Video-23-1700-3013.html. The ball seems to veer upwards as it is passes the bail and the fingers of the gloves don't seem to be in a position to cause the ball to veer. The sound also seems to support this. Of course, the bail may not have come off by this impact - we saw that in the test against the saffas where the ball hit the stumps and the bail magically landed back ontop of the stump.

However I still think that Haddin's gloves hit the stumps at effectively the same time, and in any event, his gloves are in front of the stumps so Broom should have been not out regardless.

I agree that Pointing and Haddin's reactions (as reported) have made the situation worse than it need be.
 

Virgil

Larry Dwyer (12)
I dont think anyone is saying he deliberately knocked the bails off to fool everyone.
But i find it hard to believe he didnt know that his gloves came in contact with the bails.
Of course all that doesnt matter as the simple undisputed fact is his gloves were in front of the stumps, which meant it was a no ball.

Even Darryl Hair has come out and said that.
 
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Turban

Guest
Virgil said:
I dont think anyone is saying he deliberately knocked the bails off to fool everyone.
But i find it hard to believe he didnt know that his gloves came in contact with the bails.
Of course all that doesnt matter as the simple undisputed fact is his gloves were in front of the stumps, which meant it was a no ball.

Even Darryl Hair has come out and said that.

Some people have been suggesting that he whipped his gloves accross and down (or some such direction) to remove the bails after taking the ball, but it is a minority.

As an aside, do keeping gloves have much material and padding past the end of your fingers? They seem to have enough from where I was sitting (several Km's away from the action watching from the couch) to be able to give the bails a tickle without actually having your finger tips in front of the stumps. In other words, would his fingers have clearly felt the bails? The only pair of criket related gloves i own are batting gloves and they have green spikes on the back of them....
 

mark_s

Chilla Wilson (44)
Turban said:
Virgil said:
I dont think anyone is saying he deliberately knocked the bails off to fool everyone.
But i find it hard to believe he didnt know that his gloves came in contact with the bails.
Of course all that doesnt matter as the simple undisputed fact is his gloves were in front of the stumps, which meant it was a no ball.

Even Darryl Hair has come out and said that.

Some people have been suggesting that he whipped his gloves accross and down (or some such direction) to remove the bails after taking the ball, but it is a minority.

As an aside, do keeping gloves have much material and padding past the end of your fingers? They seem to have enough from where I was sitting (several Km's away from the action watching from the couch) to be able to give the bails a tickle without actually having your finger tips in front of the stumps. In other words, would his fingers have clearly felt the bails? The only pair of criket related gloves i own are batting gloves and they have green spikes on the back of them....

Most keeper gloves have hard plastic protection at the end of the fingers effectively covering from the last knuckle onwards. It protects the keeper from balls that would otherwise hit the point of the finger and cause jarring (and I gues it also protects the thinest part of the finger bone). I used to keep (although I was pretty hopeless) but I have no idea whether Haddin should or should not have been able to feel his contact with the stumps. However, he should have known where his hands were, particularly as there was no reason for them to even be on top of the stumps (there was no chance for a stumping at all on this bowl).

Gloves with spikes? - Are these relics from the bodyline era?
 

PaarlBok

Rod McCall (65)
Man it dont matter if he cheat or not. The Caps won the match and the way us Boere call it "Skelm kaiingtjies brand uit" meaning you usually lose anyway if you cheat, so what. The Caps won the match and this look like starting to get in one huge deal and is going to come back and hunt someone. Just when you as a cricket supporter thinks the players start to show good sportman spirit, the fan hits the shite all over again.
 
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