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QLD GPS Rugby 2019

Jets

Paul McLean (56)
Staff member
I coach an A team at my sons school a few years ago and if the Director of Rugby received a question from a parent it would be passed on to me to answer. They actually had a formal structure around dealing with the situation that made the entire process easy to follow and it was quite open.

Also when coaching schoolboys I`m happy to talk to parents about their sons progress and provide plenty of feedback. When I`ve coached Colts I ask the players to come and see me as it`s time to grow up a bit, part of this though is making yourself approachable to them all.

As these schools aren`t high performance sporting excellence centres I don`t think they need to go over the top with coach/parent feedback.

Also I watched my son in the D`s volleyball on the weekend and his coach was one of the best I have seen, in any sport, in regards to dealing with the students and giving quality feedback to players. Most of the lower team coaches are just there to make the experience enjoyable for the kids and to manage the team, that's the reality of life. If you aren`t at the top level you wont get top level coaching.
 

Jets

Paul McLean (56)
Staff member
No the QSS hold this championship every year at the same time to normally select the CSS team that then goes on to compete with AIC and GPS teams for spots in the Qld Schoolboys team. It normally wouldn’t involve any AIC or GPS lads, but as we have seen with the post from Jets , if you want to play Qld Schoolboys this year you have to go through this pathway.

The GPS schools have already said they are not supporting it and as mentioned, clashes with AIC rugby. Looks like if you aren’t at Sunnybank for the trials you can’t play for Qld Schoolboys in July and as a result can’t play Aussie Schoolboys this year. There is a separate U18 Aussie team chosen later in the year that school based players are eligible for but is independent of the QSS. This team could include any U18 player regardless of wether they are still at school or were present at Riverview in July.

Basically means that a heap of boys who were 17 finishing school last year plus any GPS or AIC boy is eligible , as are all the boys who had a crack at making Schoolboys through the QSS pathway.

The U18 teams is RA , Schoolboys QSS

The QRU have very little to do with QSS business.

Looks like the Reds and the GPS association ( and maybe the AIC? ) are running their own race .

The Queensland U18`s team will be selected from the 40-45 players in the Reds Academy, if a player is not part of that he wont get a look in for the Australian U18`s team. Pretty much if you haven`t been invited to the Academy the only way to play rep footy is to go down the Schoolboys path.

I would be interested in the selection requirements for the combined states team, do the Qld players have to play at Sunnybank for the State Champs?
 

The Nomad

Colin Windon (37)
^ My understanding that Qld schoolboys teams get selected from the State Champs at Sunnybank in May, no CSS team to then trial against GPS & AIC for schoolboys selection as in years past . If you want to play Qld Schoolboys this year , you need to make yourself available for the regional trials as the boys did back in U12 & U15, make a regional team to play at the School State Champs and then hope you get picked.

The State Champs clash with the AIC comp and the GPS schools are not in a hurry to send boys to the trials. Basically Qld Schoolboys this year could be without the best GPS and AIC lads if their schools don't give them clearance to attend regional trials and as a result would also not be eligible for Australian Schoolboys.

The Academy teams are a different thing altogether. The Reds U18s will play other academy teams throughout the year and is separate from the Schoolboys team. At some point an Australian U18 team gets named and they tour NZ.

Not concrete on this , but again just my understanding, any lad playing rugby who is U18 is a possibility for the Australian U18 team, no set trial.
 

Jets

Paul McLean (56)
Staff member
Not concrete on this , but again just my understanding, any lad playing rugby who is U18 is a possibility for the Australian U18 team, no set trial.

This isn't the case. To play for the Aust U18 team you have to be in one of the academy teams. If you aren't in the teams in June and September then you wont be selected for Australia.
 
G

GingerBreadCrab

Guest
This isn't the case. To play for the Aust U18 team you have to be in one of the academy teams. If you aren't in the teams in June and September then you wont be selected for Australia.
You’re conflating two teams. As it stands, one will be picked from the outstanding performers at the annual National Champs that will take place at Riverview. I believe this will be the “Australian Schoolboys” team.

At this point in time the pathway to this team ^ is not supported by GPS/AIC teams because it interrupts their season quite badly.
Therein lies the opportunity for boys outside the junior elite programs (FNQ, Western QLD, Darling Downs etc) to state their claim for selection into a Super Rugby side’s U/18 Academy or even U/20 Academy if they’re good enough.

The pathway that is being supported by GPS and AIC sides is the Reds Academy U/18 squad. Boys that perform well in the top-tier schoolboy competitions are invited into the program and from there they play games against other Super Rugby U/18 Academies. The best performers of these games are then picked to play in the Australian U/18 side.

Generally speaking, painting in very broad strokes and opening myself up to criticism, the Australian U/18 side picked from the Academies will be a better side than the Australian Schoolboys side picked after National Champs.
 

Patriot

Banned
Finding a A/B standard coach to turn up and coach a 'C' team.I'm sure that wouldn't be hard to find at all. As for being entitled to a meeting with rugby coaches re feedback because you pay big fees, surely that's a laugh. Isn't the mantra of many boys schools turning them into young men and encouraging them to take initiative to talk to coaches themselves? Every kid craves feedback these days, but often the problem is, it's never acted on it, because a kid thinks 'well I asked for feedback' box ticked.do they actually go away and work on their tackle tech outside of training, or their ability to pass a football. Instead they turn to the soft shoulder of mum and dad who go into battle for them instead. I've been around GPS rugby a few years with my boys now and it's quite funny walking past and hearing some of the conversations parents are having with either 1st XV coaches or Directors of Rugby on a Saturday and struggling not to laugh. The directors of rugby are becoming more and more blunt with parents now, which I think is good, given some of the sprays they cop, but some parents just don't get it unfortunately. Often the parents who make the biggest deal are the ones with the least experience.playing, coaching, officiating, I feel embarrassed for their poor sons, I'd be mortified if I gave my sons coach/teacher a serve whether I agreed with their selection or not, Id be worried he'd never get picked again purely because the coach didn't want to deal with me.

Agree with a lot of what you say but why should coaches be protected? What makes them so special? Every kid gets the same level of teaching in the classroom why not on the training paddock? Why shouldn’t coaches be answerable to those who pay? Teachers and headmasters are.As for kids talking to coaches re feedback, I personally witnessed a young player ask a coach why he was dropped after the A team he was playing in, which had won its previous 4 games in which he’d played well, by big margins,coaches answer,that’s just the way it is. Some coaches just ‘put it over’ kids because they can. Absolutely they should be accountable
 

Garry Owens

Alan Cameron (40)
The Queensland U18`s team will be selected from the 40-45 players in the Reds Academy, if a player is not part of that he wont get a look in for the Australian U18`s team. Pretty much if you haven`t been invited to the Academy the only way to play rep footy is to go down the Schoolboys path.

I would be interested in the selection requirements for the combined states team, do the Qld players have to play at Sunnybank for the State Champs?
Yes

Which is to say to play National Champs ( Schoolboys ) you have to to go through your region ( IE be selected for your region ) and play in the State Champs at Sunnybank and then be picked for either QLD Schoolboys 1 or Queensland Schoolboys 2

Same deal for Australian Schoolboys - got to come all the way though the path - if you miss part of the path you can’t try and join later
 

Jets

Paul McLean (56)
Staff member
You’re conflating two teams. As it stands, one will be picked from the outstanding performers at the annual National Champs that will take place at Riverview. I believe this will be the “Australian Schoolboys” team.

At this point in time the pathway to this team ^ is not supported by GPS/AIC teams because it interrupts their season quite badly.
Therein lies the opportunity for boys outside the junior elite programs (FNQ, Western QLD, Darling Downs etc) to state their claim for selection into a Super Rugby side’s U/18 Academy or even U/20 Academy if they’re good enough.

The pathway that is being supported by GPS and AIC sides is the Reds Academy U/18 squad. Boys that perform well in the top-tier schoolboy competitions are invited into the program and from there they play games against other Super Rugby U/18 Academies. The best performers of these games are then picked to play in the Australian U/18 side.

Generally speaking, painting in very broad strokes and opening myself up to criticism, the Australian U/18 side picked from the Academies will be a better side than the Australian Schoolboys side picked after National Champs.


I'm not.

The Academy squads for 2019 are already picked. Unless the policy is changed a lot of Boys wont have a rep team to play for in 2019.
 

Garry Owens

Alan Cameron (40)
The explanation of the structure of the 2 x pathways is NOT the same in NSW , VIC or ACT. Their Academy players still at school will be lining up for their respective Schoolboy Teams

QLD , for now , is the exception

It’s a shame for the 17 year Grade 12 students ( whom will comprise approx 90-95% of the GPS and AIC Schoolboy competitions in South East QLD this year ) as it is unlikely the majority of them won’t end up with the opportunity and experience of participating in higher honours Rugby as many that have gone before them

My mail is that 18 year olds that finished last year and are playing Colts or Prems this season and are “tagged” in the U20 program, but not required for duty , will be eligible for U18 Academy games and U18 National honours

Think names like Downes , Mulcahy , Crothers , Blyth , Tuinona , Engelbrecht , Roche, Geraghty , Tevega , Kirk , Gordon , Condon , Pona , Flook , Atkinson ,etc

And then of course you have the U18’s still at school like Vella , Nongorr , Thompson , Douglas , Lyndon , Pasitoa , Grey , Samuela , Bowyer, Vahiu and Bilston

Unless they are lights out outstanding it is going to be very difficult for U17’s to play higher Rep in QLD this year - and maybe even ongoing , if , consolidation occurs as what is operating in NSW, ACT and VIC where their Academy and Schools team seem aligned
 

RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
Agree with a lot of what you say but why should coaches be protected? What makes them so special? Every kid gets the same level of teaching in the classroom why not on the training paddock? Why shouldn’t coaches be answerable to those who pay? Teachers and headmasters are.As for kids talking to coaches re feedback, I personally witnessed a young player ask a coach why he was dropped after the A team he was playing in, which had won its previous 4 games in which he’d played well, by big margins,coaches answer,that’s just the way it is. Some coaches just ‘put it over’ kids because they can. Absolutely they should be accountable

because there's a difference between a tech and the year's of training and professional experience they have had and coaches helping out kids get the chance to run around on the weekend.

Plus if you are choosing schools for your kids based on the level of coaching they will get, perhaps except if they are A players and have a legitimate career opportunity in rugby (which, let's face it, the vast majority will not) then I reckon your priorities need to be assessed.
 

Garry Owens

Alan Cameron (40)
I'm not.

The Academy squads for 2019 are already picked. Unless the policy is changed a lot of Boys wont have a rep team to play for in 2019.

True - see above

Not for the reason you state where Academy Squads are already picked -with the implication that these squads can’t or won’t change

They will

The Reds have been clear - the squads are fluid

Having said that , for reasons already mentioned I can’t see many U17’s playing if the Mail is correct and all 18 year old Academy players are available ( whether they are U20 Academy and still U18 eligible or are 18 years old in the U18 Academy )

Here is the thing though - every single one of those names mentioned are gone from U18 Academy / U18 National eligibility next year

18’s ongoing for the majority of players would seem to be a one and done type opportunity , whereas U20’s / JW is a genuine 2-3 window for pathway players
 

Jets

Paul McLean (56)
Staff member
Things may have changed but at least on GPS school has published the trial notice for the district rep team. Maybe its a case of them not encouraging it but not standing in the way if that what the student wants.
 

Confucius Say

Jimmy Flynn (14)
The explanation of the structure of the 2 x pathways is NOT the same in NSW , VIC or ACT. Their Academy players still at school will be lining up for their respective Schoolboy Teams

QLD , for now , is the exception

It’s a shame for the 17 year Grade 12 students ( whom will comprise approx 90-95% of the GPS and AIC Schoolboy competitions in South East QLD this year ) as it is unlikely the majority of them won’t end up with the opportunity and experience of participating in higher honours Rugby as many that have gone before them

My mail is that 18 year olds that finished last year and are playing Colts or Prems this season and are “tagged” in the U20 program, but not required for duty , will be eligible for U18 Academy games and U18 National honours

Think names like Downes , Mulcahy , Crothers , Blyth , Tuinona , Engelbrecht , Roche, Geraghty , Tevega , Kirk , Gordon , Condon , Pona , Flook , Vahiu, Atkinson , Bilston etc

And then of course you have the U18’s still at school like Vella , Nongorr , Thompson , Douglas , Lyndon , Pasitoa , Grey , Samuela , Bowyer

Unless they are lights out outstanding it is going to be very difficult for U17’s to play higher Rep in QLD this year - and maybe even ongoing , if , consolidation occurs as what is operating in NSW, ACT and VIC where their Academy and Schools team seem aligned
Some reasonable players there and Vaihu is also still at school. No real standouts in the group that has left school. And with respect, the problem with having left school is that the discipline required to be a rep player isn't always there. Sure there are drinks and parties for the school kids but the non-school kids don't have the several months of strict environment in a first XV school squad. And the opportunities to be partying or lazy are arguably greater once year 12 is finished. One of the main reasons why so many Schoolboy reps don't go onto greater rugby careers is that they cannot maintain the discipline required to succeed.

So i think the u17s have as good a chance of anyone. Many of that non-school list have already reached their peak.
And to the boys not in the academy, and not been given the opportunity to play QSS carnival, think of the long game.
 

Garry Owens

Alan Cameron (40)
Perhaps

But you have 11 x U18 year olds in the above lists still at school , many of whom , have already played QLD or Aus Schools in that list , or U16 Rep in the year prior and who figure to have positional advantage as being amongst the best in their School First XV competition this season

Then you would think out of the 15 listed who have left - that at least half of them would be in the mix ( at a minimum )

There is 17 to 18 guys ( 18 year olds ) right there in your 23 - which is sort of how I see it this year for the 17 year olds .

I only see room for 5 ( maybe ) Maybe a 9 and 10 and 2 or 3 outside backs

Speculating of course

I guess we'll see . Book mark this if you like.

Ultimately , if 18 year olds are in the U20's program ( and they wouldn't be if they were piss wrecks ) and they are not required for duty there - odds on they are back in 18's and will represent the predominate numbers

I'm assuming the idea behind this structural change was to playing age like for like v other countries around the world and to better delineate a pecking order
 

The Nomad

Colin Windon (37)
Interesting lead story in the sport section of Today's Australian newspaper , Foxtel in preliminary talks to get GPS First XV rugby on the telly.

Politically could get tricky, with all members of the GPS having to sign off on it. They interviewed the principal from NC and he didn't seem to know much about it, but managed to get a great photo of the NC First XV in the paper.

Also mentioned maybe the end of NRC , with a possible change to a national club comp, top 4 from Shute Shield and Hospital Cup playing off to decide a national champion.
 

Galloper

Darby Loudon (17)
So i think the u17s have as good a chance of anyone. Many of that non-school list have already reached their peak.


Some interesting logic there.

How do you reckon a good First XV side would go against a good Colts 1 side?

Presumably, according to your argument, the schoolboys would probably win because most of the Colts boys would have "already reached their peak" and/or been "unable to maintain discipline" after leaving school.

In any event, by what metric have you arrived at your conclusion about many of the school leavers listed by GO having already reached their peak? Does this mean that, by extension, most of this year's 17 yo schoolboys will also have "reached their peak" by this time next year, apparently for no reason other than the fact that they're no longer at school?

The bottom line is that at at least some of the boys you've already written-off will be vastly improved products this year, depending of course on their respective motivation and fitness. Those that do fall in this category will have a natural advantage over younger boys still at school, that's just a fact.
 

The Nomad

Colin Windon (37)
^ top that off with a few of them in the Academy system across both U20's and U18's and you have some pretty fit and motivated 18 years olds .

The boys who finished school last year and are in the U20's squad have been doing 4 x 3 hrs sessions a week since early December at an intensity level well above what they were doing at a similar stage at school .
The U18's have been back for about 4 weeks, not doing as much , but still training.

All of these boys are a year older , physical development a year more progressed , it makes a difference.
 

RugbyFirst

Frank Row (1)
I’d like to just highlight the mistruths whether out of ignorance or self-gain that have been shared in relation to the National Schoolboy Championships and its accessibility to all QLD students.

1. The National Schoolboy Championship is going ahead at the same venue and date window as in previous years, albeit without the Combined States and West Australian sides I believe. I have been told by a mate with intel from NSW schools that the Aussie schools has enough money in its coffers to deliver the championship for several more years, with or without RA support.

2. Every student in Queensland between the ages of 16 to 18 has the right to trial for their regional team in the next couple of weeks so that they can play at the State Championships in May this year. This provides the opportunity to select the two Queensland teams which will compete at the Nationals. I acknowledge that it is not the ideal timing for trials, but I wouldn’t think that the GPS students are any less prepared than any of the other school’s in their regions. They don’t trial as GPS teams so it could/ should be at least an individual decision rather than a bloc decision.

3. I have contacted my son’s school sports coordinator and have been told all AIC schools are supporting their students’ participation at the regional titles with the exception of Ashgrove. From what I hear there are differing levels of encouragement for players at the different AIC schools, but none are blocking the opportunity for their students to represent their region and state except for Ashgrove. Hopefully, the “Members of the College family act courageously and stand in solidarity, committed to the creation of a more just world” and pressure the Marist Brothers Ashgrove Principal to allow students the opportunity to trial for their regional team. Cynical people would quite rightfully highlight that those AIC schools with staff involved in Junior Reds programs last year are less supportive than those more independently involved in rugby union funnily enough. I also have heard from BJRU families that there are several boys from GPS schools who are attending their regional trials or have lodged nominations. Whether the other GPS schools are going to bully those GPS schools who allow it from trialling, we will soon find out.

4. The schoolboy representative opportunities do not interrupt the GPS or AIC seasons quite badly. The AIC competition is a 7 game competition in a 10 week term. The state championships clash with one round of the competition, but there are plenty of opportunities if schools showed some flexibility to address this situation. The national schoolboy preparation has traditionally been in the first week of the holidays and the carnival the second week of the holidays. This is before the GPS season even starts and I am sure the coaching staff that have been employed by GPS schools would have the talent and experience to adapt their preparations in those weeks.

The situation were there has been systematic pressuring, some would argue ‘bullying’ by key staff in GPS schools for students not to pursue schoolboy rugby rep honours. At best they are culpable of not sharing information to the students whose families pay good money to go to their schools and preying on their ignorance of the timelines of the new process of gaining Qld schools selection.
 
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