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QLD GPS Rugby 2020

fairplay

Johnnie Wallace (23)
If some students want to pull out for exams, fine. But I am sure most of the guys gunning for a spot in their schools 1st XV's would rather play regardless.

Covid 19 or whatever you want to call it.... actually gives programs the opportunity to cut some regular operating costs, though gameday revenue would be down I imagine.

Let the senior teams play. Don't take that away from them.
 

Garry Owens

Alan Cameron (40)
I am not sure about all Schools but I know some (or at least one) Rugby Support Groups are set up separately and keep their own retained earnings.

Some Schools have even been known to "borrow" money from them and for not inconsequential amounts of money (lots of zeroes behind the first number)

It's a structural problem in these cases where you can have overly ambitious Mum and Dad zealots who are holding the purse strings......frayed and under strain from the coin of a zillion burgers and chips sold over generations........... and that are telling Schools how to suck eggs (or maybe how to flip them) and what they will and won't do with "their" ( The RSG that is ) money. How the fuck does that work ? ( Other than satisfy power surges and the subtle as "a turd in salad" over anxious Mummy Managers? )
 
A

Aussie Luke

Guest
Democracy in action . Sort of speaks volumes across many fronts though eh?

I can sort of understand why some schools are not rushing to prioritise Rugby in the middle of a crammed Sporting offering where the boys are deciding what they want to play , and also where , the delays being referenced make it impossible to have a GPS Rugby season in Term 3. If one was to exist it would have to extend into Term 4 , which has other impacts - especially for the Grade 12 boys that are trying to sit finals and finish school through October / early November.

About the only way you might make it work is ditch the bye round and if there are a couple of schools who want to opt out this year - let them ...and maybe pinch the first weekend of the School Holidays - a compressed 6 week season.

The other issue in all of this is money and resources ..and the cost of running these programs where some schools just don’t have the money, or are , and will continue , to experience issues with their customers being able to pay the cost of schooling.

And if you are a family that is experiencing and will continue to experience difficulty emanating from the ongoing impacts of COVID-19 you may well be looking at the real value proposition of education right now and exactly what you are paying for - especially scholastically.

I’m not casting aspersions on any “elite” private school per se ...I’m just saying for a good number of them will not be immune from the significant financial impacts of COVID-19. Their service offerings and their value propositions will be questioned more than ever before as they roll forward.

A really good case in point is a GPS old boy I work with who has 3 kids under 3 and is aghast at the cost as he’s looking at enrollments. He is going to try and re-direct to a Catholic option in the association at a $9k per year per child difference. For him that consideration wouldn’t have even been considered 2 months ago.

It’s a genuine paradigm shift folks but like the GFC everyone is a bit in denial and waiting to “get back to normal” without understanding that there has been a permanent shift in how life has changed.

I am seeing exactly the opposite i.e. people with their kids enrolled at the GPS schools wanting to prioritize the rugby season as they see it as very integral to an education and not separate to education. Without it, they are not offering something unique and not available to other less well resourced or supported schools. The value proposition is the GPS sporting association. One mustn't forget that the GPS is a sporting association, and its very admired and unique and valuable and they should place high priority on this.
 

Garry Owens

Alan Cameron (40)
Cool.

"People" who I presume you mean , you and a few, may want Rugby "prioritised" but the reality is the majority of these schools couldn't give a square root to that priority with a number of them actively looking to de-priortise Rugby , bit by bit , over the last 2 to 5 years.

If you accept the numbers as to what they are that Bluey posted then the people ( in this case, the Boys ) have spoken.

GPS Rugby is losing a lot of its lustre and that has been happening purposely so , in a targeted de-construct, across the confluence of a few key contributing factors that have come together in the last 2 years. Media types and Content opportunists are riding the whitewash after the wave has broken.
 
A

Aussie Luke

Guest
Cool.

"People" who I presume you mean , you and a few, may want Rugby "prioritised" but the reality is the majority of these schools couldn't give a square root to that priority with a number of them actively looking to de-priortise Rugby , bit by bit , over the last 2 to 5 years.

If you accept the numbers as to what they are that Bluey posted then the people ( in this case, the Boys ) have spoken.

GPS Rugby is losing a lot of its lustre and that has been happening purposely so , in a targeted de-construct, across the confluence of a few key contributing factors that have come together in the last 2 years. Media types and Content opportunists are riding the whitewash after the wave has broken.

Again, I couldn't disagree more. I think there are a few schools who have become obsessed with producing the most OP 1 scores at the expense of a well rounded education, but I have watched some old footage of GPS rugby games, and my own experience from the 80s and before, and compared it with what goes on in recent years on a Saturday afternoon at BBC, Nudgee, Terrace, Churchie, TSS, Downlands v TGS, Ashgrove etc., and the occasion, atmosphere and celebration of school rugby culture has grown substantially.
 

Garry Owens

Alan Cameron (40)
Wonderful.Fantastic. Most schools would also argue that a well rounded education ( as in the extension of "education" into the Co-Curricular ) includes significantly more than a jolly old rah rah romp of Saturday rugger.

I am not disputing the Johnny come lately interest of new media opportunists that create a bit of gee whiz.
 

TheRed

Allen Oxlade (6)
I agree with Aussie Luke on this one. Been watching school boy rugby since the late 80’s, crowds and atmosphere at most games are larger now. Plus the regular print media stories, and exposure from double take sports, and onion tv etc. it seems to me that school boy rugby gets more interest now than it did in my day.

I think the issue with participation has as much to do with the state of Aussie rugby and in particular the wallabies over the last decade, kids have no heroes to inspire them to play rugby and so other sports are seeing participation numbers increase at the expense of rugby.
 

Lammy

Frank Nicholson (4)
It would be interesting to actually see what the sport enrollment s are across all schools. I don't think the disparity between football and rugby would be as extreme for everyone. There are definitely a few schools where rugby is not a big interest but there are others where I believe the mix will be more even or possibly in rugby's favour.
 

Garry Owens

Alan Cameron (40)
In this Country .....Rugby always was , and always will be ......niche

The game's management have tried to grow it and mainstream it into the new content media world that evolved 25 years ago around about the time that Rugby went professional.

When we were narrower and niche it is arguable that our product was better and we had a better quality of hero to aspire to .....I mean how many kids growing up through the late 70's to mid 90's wanted to be :

Mark Loane
Paul McLean
Michael Lynagh
Campo
John Eales
Horan and Little?

Our base spread too wide as we tried to piss in the tall weeds with the big dogs and what we have now is what we have

You have Onion out there talking about American sporting references re : Friday Night Lights and the focus of individualisation within a Team Sport. Double Take do the same in selling their "stars"

Except Pathway Peeps around 2 to 3 years ago started affirmative actioning Statey and Country randos ahead of merit because they didn't have the bucks to run DO's in State Schools and in regional areas.....so AA'ing quotas was the next best way to fly the flag and grow the base beyond the fear of being beholden to the GPS system

Meanwhile for the 10 years prior the GPS Rugby competition has progressively been emerging as a two tiered competition since the killer State High Teams of the late 2000's and I think outside of BGS getting flogged and then coming back and winning it in 2012 I don't think anyone outside of 3 schools has won it for the last 10 years . Nudgee/Churchie/TSS ........anyone else ?

The idea that recruitment at the whim of 3 or 4 schools who decided to run a Combine Harvester approach throughout greater Metro SEQ and Country QLD and NSW but yet didn't connect back to the QRU / Reds was just down right scary.

That, and the fear or belief that a wider "market" had a perception that it was a stacked deck and still a white snotty jock path of privilege , meant that progressively , bit by bit , over reliance on GPS Rugby as a panacea pathway had to be broken down ....even though the media opportunists I reference see their space in "Yank'ing it up" and have something to sell into a niche new media market.

The reality is ....some of the best Rugby prospects out there ( League or Union ) over the last 2 to 3 years now don't see the necessity to be at a GPS School. Most of them don't give a fuck about Rugby and League has already won the hearts and minds battle anyway ....and that's where they know their immediate future is after School. Think Hamiso Tabui Fidow. I mean there is no need to leave Ambrose Treacy if you are an Ezra Mam and if you are a bigger fish in a little old AIC Pond ...well enjoy your ride.

So what we're seeing in "the Spectacle" is more sell which isn't really about the game per se as much as what people think it is ....it's a self fulfilling diminished outcome in a lot of ways around savvy kids that know what gets valued , acknowledged and promoted and ultimately rewarded in "the Spectacle" that has become and is becoming increasingly individualised. Run it straight collisions and the pseudo power game gets everyone amped .....game callers that sound like they are coked up (but this is part of their entertainment value) and pathway peeps that think they have found another X Factor .......meanwhile the skill level is going backwards and the selflessness that is ultimately needed to play winning Rugby diminishes bit by bit under the "Friday Night Lights" drivers
 

RedsRugbyfan101

Allen Oxlade (6)
It would be interesting to actually see what the sport enrollment s are across all schools. I don't think the disparity between football and rugby would be as extreme for everyone. There are definitely a few schools where rugby is not a big interest but there are others where I believe the mix will be more even or possibly in rugby's favour.


In a term where the sports on offer have increased from just Rugby and Basketball to also include Football, Tennis and Cross country/T&F, the reported numbers are very positive. I have done a very quick and crude calculation comparing the number of rugby teams last year to the number of teams each school is planning on entering from various sources. These numbers may change prior to Term 3 getting underway. But I believe they will be fairly close to the mark. The reduction in the number of rugby teams for each school is summarised below.
  • BGS – 9 teams
  • ACGS - 9 teams (3 less in U11 contributing signifcantly to this)
  • BBC - 8 teams
  • GT - 5 teams
  • BSHS - 4 teams
  • TGS - 4 teams
  • TSS - 4 teams
  • IGS - 3 teams
  • NC - 2 teams
  • TOTAL = 48 less teams
On average across the 7 age groups for GPS Rugby, schools have at worst lost 1 team. In other words, only 15-20 students per age group have decided that they would prefer to play either football, tennis or prioritise their running/T&F commitments. That's not a bad result at all and indicates the popularity of GPS Rugby amongst the students. I’d also suspect that the vast % of these students who are dropping would have been in the lower teams and merely playing with their mates as something to do on a Saturday.

Any fears of a mass migration towards the round ball are wrong as it is not occurring. Soccer’s numbers (# of teams less in 2020 vs 2019) work out to be.
  • BGS - 16 teams
  • ACGS - 18 teams
  • BBC - 17 teams
  • GT - 16 teams
  • BSHS - 6 teams
  • TGS - 15 teams
  • TSS - 20 teams
  • IGS - 7 teams
  • NC - 21 teams
  • TOTAL = 136 less teams
With crowds most likely not going to be allowed to stay around and watch, Rugby will have an advantage in the fact that Doubletake does a fantastic job with the livestreaming. There is certainly no equivalent coverage for Football, Tennis or Basketball. I’d expect large numbers of students to be watching each weekend from the more rugby inclined schools (and hopefully a fair share from those less inclined schools).

In terms of # of students playing each sport, except for BGS and BSHS where more play soccer (or basketball!!), IGS being fairly line ball, the rest pretty much have 50% more playing rugby, with a few schools at 100% more. Fair to say that Rugby still remains the most popular GPS sport by a significant margin.
 
A

Aussie Luke

Guest
In this Country ...Rugby always was , and always will be ..niche

The game's management have tried to grow it and mainstream it into the new content media world that evolved 25 years ago around about the time that Rugby went professional.

When we were narrower and niche it is arguable that our product was better and we had a better quality of hero to aspire to ...I mean how many kids growing up through the late 70's to mid 90's wanted to be :

Mark Loane
Paul McLean
Michael Lynagh
Campo
John Eales
Horan and Little?

Our base spread too wide as we tried to piss in the tall weeds with the big dogs and what we have now is what we have

You have Onion out there talking about American sporting references re : Friday Night Lights and the focus of individualisation within a Team Sport. Double Take do the same in selling their "stars"

Except Pathway Peeps around 2 to 3 years ago started affirmative actioning Statey and Country randos ahead of merit because they didn't have the bucks to run DO's in State Schools and in regional areas...so AA'ing quotas was the next best way to fly the flag and grow the base beyond the fear of being beholden to the GPS system

Meanwhile for the 10 years prior the GPS Rugby competition has progressively been emerging as a two tiered competition since the killer State High Teams of the late 2000's and I think outside of BGS getting flogged and then coming back and winning it in 2012 I don't think anyone outside of 3 schools has won it for the last 10 years . Nudgee/Churchie/TSS ....anyone else ?

The idea that recruitment at the whim of 3 or 4 schools who decided to run a Combine Harvester approach throughout greater Metro SEQ and Country QLD and NSW but yet didn't connect back to the QRU / Reds was just down right scary.

That, and the fear or belief that a wider "market" had a perception that it was a stacked deck and still a white snotty jock path of privilege , meant that progressively , bit by bit , over reliance on GPS Rugby as a panacea pathway had to be broken down ..even though the media opportunists I reference see their space in "Yank'ing it up" and have something to sell into a niche new media market.

The reality is ..some of the best Rugby prospects out there ( League or Union ) over the last 2 to 3 years now don't see the necessity to be at a GPS School. Most of them don't give a fuck about Rugby and League has already won the hearts and minds battle anyway ..and that's where they know their immediate future is after School. Think Hamiso Tabui Fidow. I mean there is no need to leave Ambrose Treacy if you are an Ezra Mam and if you are a bigger fish in a little old AIC Pond .well enjoy your ride.

So what we're seeing in "the Spectacle" is more sell which isn't really about the game per se as much as what people think it is ..it's a self fulfilling diminished outcome in a lot of ways around savvy kids that know what gets valued , acknowledged and promoted and ultimately rewarded in "the Spectacle" that has become and is becoming increasingly individualised. Run it straight collisions and the pseudo power game gets everyone amped ...game callers that sound like they are coked up and pathway peeps that think they have found another X Factor ...meanwhile the skill level is going backwards and the selflessness that is ultimately needed to play winning Rugby diminishes bit by bit under the "Friday Night Lights" drivers


I agree with the first part of what you are observing that rugby is a niche sport and that the product and role models used to be better however I think this is where the dislocation has occurred i.e. the passion at school boy rugby v the Super 15s or Wallabies.

I agree also re the skill level going backwards. I'm always super impressed when I watch the old Wallabies games from the 80s and 90s and I observe how much better their skill sets were in the past compared to now.

I think the fact that more kids now play XBox or choose softer, less resilience based sports than take on rugby is not a good thing, and only weakens the stock and the point of being at a GPS school.

I live overseas and so for me DoubleTake has been fantastic as it is for many of my Brisbane based mates who sometimes can't make it out to the games as well as others based overseas. They respect the culture and of course highlight the talents, as they should.

Internationally rugby is exploding in popularity for both men and women and so I don't think it is a diminishing product.
 

Lammy

Frank Nicholson (4)
In a term where the sports on offer have increased from just Rugby and Basketball to also include Football, Tennis and Cross country/T&F, the reported numbers are very positive. I have done a very quick and crude calculation comparing the number of rugby teams last year to the number of teams each school is planning on entering from various sources. These numbers may change prior to Term 3 getting underway. But I believe they will be fairly close to the mark. The reduction in the number of rugby teams for each school is summarised below.
  • BGS – 9 teams
  • ACGS - 9 teams (3 less in U11 contributing signifcantly to this)
  • BBC - 8 teams
  • GT - 5 teams
  • BSHS - 4 teams
  • TGS - 4 teams
  • TSS - 4 teams
  • IGS - 3 teams
  • NC - 2 teams
  • TOTAL = 48 less teams
On average across the 7 age groups for GPS Rugby, schools have at worst lost 1 team. In other words, only 15-20 students per age group have decided that they would prefer to play either football, tennis or prioritise their running/T&F commitments. That's not a bad result at all and indicates the popularity of GPS Rugby amongst the students. I’d also suspect that the vast % of these students who are dropping would have been in the lower teams and merely playing with their mates as something to do on a Saturday.

Any fears of a mass migration towards the round ball are wrong as it is not occurring. Soccer’s numbers (# of teams less in 2020 vs 2019) work out to be.
  • BGS - 16 teams
  • ACGS - 18 teams
  • BBC - 17 teams
  • GT - 16 teams
  • BSHS - 6 teams
  • TGS - 15 teams
  • TSS - 20 teams
  • IGS - 7 teams
  • NC - 21 teams
  • TOTAL = 136 less teams
With crowds most likely not going to be allowed to stay around and watch, Rugby will have an advantage in the fact that Doubletake does a fantastic job with the livestreaming. There is certainly no equivalent coverage for Football, Tennis or Basketball. I’d expect large numbers of students to be watching each weekend from the more rugby inclined schools (and hopefully a fair share from those less inclined schools).

In terms of # of students playing each sport, except for BGS and BSHS where more play soccer (or basketball!!), IGS being fairly line ball, the rest pretty much have 50% more playing rugby, with a few schools at 100% more. Fair to say that Rugby still remains the most popular GPS sport by a significant margin.

Those numbers make very interesting reading. BSHS struggled to field a b team in many age groups so one would assume that they will be left with A teams only. Grammar had pretty much just A and B teams so they will probably be in a similar situation. Churchie had teams through to E in many age groups so will still have C and D teams. BBC is hard to read as their numbers in the lower years have been weak over the past few years ... NC is clearly a rugby stronghold though with the boys clearly choosing rugby over football.

Those strong numbers suggest that some kind of rugby comp will have to go ahead.
 

Ottawa 10

Peter Burge (5)
What's the go with no crowds people talk of this year?, season starts around July 18th,level 3 restrictions lifted by then?,all sports fields are outside,can someone shed some light on this?Back to normal ?
 

RedsRugbyfan101

Allen Oxlade (6)
What's the go with no crowds people talk of this year?, season starts around July 18th,level 3 restrictions lifted by then?,all sports fields are outside,can someone shed some light on this?Back to normal ?


Under the QLD Gov's Covid-19 restrictions road map, stage 3 (which runs from July 10) indicates that the maximum number of people at a community sport fixture is 100. No way are schools going to be allowed to have large crowds stick around a watch the 1st XV fixture.

The more concerning issue for GPS at this stage is the fact that under the current plan they won't be allowed to officially start contact training unitl the 10th of July, making a shortned season almost all but a certainty. Saying that though, most of the lower grade teams usually only have 2 or 3 training sessions prior to their first game.
 

The Engine Room

Herbert Moran (7)
Interested to know how the 100 person limit is going to be managed/policed, particularly at large, wide-spread playing venues like our GPS schools. It will be a logistical headache in more ways than one! I have heard of the "1 parent" option but sounds ridiculous. The July 10 contact requirement (if you can believe that school 1st XVs are actually following this), playing July 18.....it's all sounding too logistically difficult and legally risky. The later start (week 4 of Term 3) might provide some breathing space for preparations and time for restrictions to lift again, but it's all a case of "if's". Too many I believe. Let's hope but don't be surprised...
 

fairplay

Johnnie Wallace (23)
Interested to know how the 100 person limit is going to be managed/policed, particularly at large, wide-spread playing venues like our GPS schools. It will be a logistical headache in more ways than one! I have heard of the "1 parent" option but sounds ridiculous. The July 10 contact requirement (if you can believe that school 1st XVs are actually following this), playing July 18...it's all sounding too logistically difficult and legally risky. The later start (week 4 of Term 3) might provide some breathing space for preparations and time for restrictions to lift again, but it's all a case of "if's". Too many I believe. Let's hope but don't be surprised.



There will be a lot of flipping and flopping with the community transmission guidelines by then. People are already being jammed back onto planes and public transport.
The risk for the kids playing is no greater than their day to day presence at school. Parents and supporters of GPS rugby are educated enough to know how to behave accordingly.
 
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