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Reds 2020

molman

Bob Davidson (42)
I still find it interesting to think that Stuart Lancaster almost ended up at the Reds back in 2016. He was at the point of looking at schools etc. for his kids before Leinster nabbed him where he's been doing some really good things. Could have been an interesting fork in the road. That was back when QRU thought having co-head coaches in O'Connor and Stiles was a good idea.

I struggle with some of the decisions at NSWRU but QRU really has gone on an interesting ride the last couple of years.

I know Stiles is in Japan, but what is O'Connor even doing these days after being booted from Leicester?
 

molman

Bob Davidson (42)
Curious, what ideal HC got passed up for when Thorn was appointed?

Well with hindsight another Queenslander like Dan McKellar might have been a good option :)

It was pretty sad when people like O'Connor were being paid not to coach plus all the other payouts. What a total mess it all was. I still think there might have been other options out there that had more than you know zero real coaching experience.
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
Curious, what ideal HC got passed up for when Thorn was appointed? Through the failure of having a proper succession plan (i.e. Graham), the Reds have had to pay out Connolly, Graham and Stiles's contracts (unless there was some provision in their contracts).

Combine that with little/no money at all. It's no surprise that Thorn was appointed too early in his coaching carer as for what money the Reds could afford, the pickings were quite slim. However, similar to the Wallabies, the supporting staff at Reds HQ is close to the best nationally.

Now, I have always agreed that Thorn was prompted too early (you can go back many threads ago if you want). The same went for Stiles. To me, it all stems back from whoever decided Graham should have been the HC. That to me was the most egregious mistake the Reds have made in the last decade.

Well, who TF knows '..........what ideal HC got passed up.........' but that's no argument to the point. Where, more usefully perhaps to the point, is there evidence the QRU even cared to look carefully?

Now you may have a point in terms of 'little/no money' etc. This is exactly what transpires when a pro rugby club chronically underperforms for years and years. (The vicious circles begin, then ramp up in their severity as one deficiency inspires another.)

They can't afford to not start to die.
 

Ignoto

Ken Catchpole (46)
Well with hindsight another Queenslander like Dan McKellar might have been a good option :)

From memory, Dan was the Vikings HC back then, so it was the same choice. So on paper, it was a similar candidate to Thorn, where the latter had worked with the young guys whereas McKellar hadn't.
 

Ignoto

Ken Catchpole (46)
Where, more usefully perhaps to the point, is there evidence the QRU even cared to look carefully?

I understand the angle you're going for, but at the same time, where's the evidence they didn't? Both sides are purely speculating.
 

Penguin

John Solomon (38)
Doesn't take long for the vultures to circle and the optimism that came with swathes of talented young players signing on long term turn to glum defeatist pessimism. Out of the woodwork like clockwork.
I see Thorn having a vision of turning the Reds organisation into the same all round, prolonged success like the clubs that he was involved in as a player. That won't happen overnight, but I reckon the players and administration has bought into his philosophy and will give it time to come to fruition. Hopefully he's learned the lessons from his mentors well and we'll soon see it in practice, for generations to come.

Everyone wants the championship team now. That's not realistic. There's no shame in losing to this sharks team. Especially when they could have done much better in certain aspects. Frustrating and disappointing. Yes. Mass panic? Definitely not the time.
 

Strewthcobber

Mark Ella (57)
The vast majority of super rugby winning coaches won their first championship within two years of taking over a side.

Most of the time success comes quick or it doesn't come at all
 

Penguin

John Solomon (38)
The vast majority of super rugby winning coaches won their first championship within two years of taking over a side.

Most of the time success comes quick or it doesn't come at all


Considering most of the time that was the crusaders, that's not really a fair comparison.
Maybe Thorn won't get that championship. But if he gets to put the practices learned from the crusaders and broncos in place perhaps the next reds coach will keep that 2 year success stat in focus.AAnd everyone after that. It's time for the big picture to be screened at Ballymore.
In short, I like what he's bringing to the organisation other than the win\loss ratio at this stage.
I'm also so bloody sick of the coaching roundabout the reds have been on since year 2000.
Link aside.
 

molman

Bob Davidson (42)
From memory, Dan was the Vikings HC back then, so it was the same choice. So on paper, it was a similar candidate to Thorn, where the latter had worked with the young guys whereas McKellar hadn't.

McKellar has been coaching at various levels since around 2008 I believe when he got his start at Souths in Brissy. He even had a stint in Japan as an AC (can't recall the team) and was then back at the Brumbies as an AC around 2014 and also the HC of the Vikings that year.

Thorn was playing until 2015 and was only the AC for the QLDC 2016 NRC team which he also played in and was then the HC of QLDC 2017. I'm not sure of him having any coaching experience before he started at the Reds and he definitely jumped a few steps that most historically good coaches go through. So, no I'm not sure on paper that their experience was the same.
 

wamberal

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
The vast majority of super rugby winning coaches won their first championship within two years of taking over a side.

Most of the time success comes quick or it doesn't come at all



Maybe because either a franchise has the playing stock or it doesn't. Who is responsible for the future contenders? Not the current coach.
 

Penguin

John Solomon (38)
Reds are terrible at picking head coaches. Pretty clearly.

Seems a really easy fix to me
#1 criteria - proven success as a head coach with full time men's professional 15 club or franchise competition.


Reckon McBain, Mooney and Stiles might have all gotten good results if given the time. What they're crap at is pulling the ejector button too soon.
 

wamberal

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
Sure, but that's not an argument for sticking with Phil Mooney or Michael Foley.



Which was not the point I was making, I was talking more about Brad Thorn's success or failure in the short term being largely determined by his inheritance of players. And I am not saying that he will ever be a wonderful coach, although I think that, given the time and the players, he will do a lot better than some of the Reds' previous coaches.
 
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