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Richie McCaw Cheat or genius

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Scarfman

Knitter of the Scarf
Well, I think the last two games show the two sides of the man. I much prefer him to play legally. I think games like last week tarnish his image and legacy in the game. This week, he was an all-round rugby machine (who got outplayed by Pocock).
 

Thin Thighs

Ted Fahey (11)
Last night McCaw was a machine - agree.

Do not entirely agree that Pocock outplayed McCaw But I will run with that. Could not consider him to be a machine but rather think of him as a turbocharger, something to make the machine around him go better if (and only if) the rest of the machine is working OK.

Last night Someone forgot to fill the tank with Petrol.
 

Top Bloke

Ward Prentice (10)
"scarfman: I think games like last week tarnish his image and legacy in the game."
I think you may be making too much of that point - As with others, McCaws legacy will be based on his results. Most critically sucess or not at RWC2011.
 

Top Bloke

Ward Prentice (10)
And in answering the thread question: McCaw is a genius.
Last night after Rocky was pinged & marched 10 McCaw approaches Joubert who tells him "Not now, I dont want to hear anything" McCaw's reply: "Ok I just wondered if you had anything you needed to talk to me about" Future Diplomat in the making.
 

Scarfman

Knitter of the Scarf
OK - but you tell me. What's a better legacy? Being remembered as the best fetcher, or best link man, or most all-around skilled loose forward? Or remembered as the guy who was able to get away with more illegal play than anyone else?

Anyway, I've said all I have to say about Richie.
 

Virgil

Larry Dwyer (12)
Mat e isnt it generally the number 7's role to basically 'cheat'?
Or by definition sail as close to the wind, push the limits of the law as much as possible.

And you cant possibly say George Smith never did the same thing.
 

Top Bloke

Ward Prentice (10)
Richie will be remembered for being a 100% committed player, great captain who inspired and lead his team mates. All the stuff about being a cheat etc is just opinion, it doesnt get recorded in the record books. Richie McCaw - 85 tests - won 75. As captain 48 tests won 42.
Vs Aus as captain played 12 won 11.
 

Thin Thighs

Ted Fahey (11)
Mate isnt it generally the number 7's role to basically 'cheat'?
Or by definition sail as close to the wind, push the limits of the law as much as possible.

And you cant possibly say George Smith never did the same thing.

What flanker doesn't cheat?

The only ones I know who do not cheat are playing in second grade. .....

Cheating is in the DNA of any decent flanker.

Some are just better at cheating than others. Some elevate their art to royalty levels.

This is not a McCaw/George Smith thing. Regardless of State, Club, or National alliances, you would have to agree that all top notch loose forwards push the envelope with the laws.

Those that don't find themselves in either second grade or second row.

Edit: The constant changing of the laws (ELV's etc), and inconsistent referee interpretations between NH and SH, S14 and Test, domestic and international, Club and Rep, over the recent times has encouraged this Loose Forward genetic disorder to come to the fore.
 

cyclopath

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Staff member
I still stand by my earlier post somewhere about this - any coach would give a testicle to have him, not only as a player, but as a captain. The guy is top shelf. And clearly a top bloke too.
Sure he flops around in the wrong place a lot, but he just does what the refs let him do. And does it very bloody well.
Like Scarfy, I will say no more on this.
 

ACT Crusader

Jim Lenehan (48)
McCaw's workrate was top drawer last night. He carried the ball off the back of the ruck, linked and carried and crashed ball. Had it all last night.

Not surprised many are saying Pocock ''outplayed him'', he (Pocock had a whale of a game), but I thought McCaw was far more effective in many areas. But you tend to focus on ''your own'' in the heat of a test match.
 

MajorlyRagerly

Trevor Allan (34)
OK - but you tell me. What's a better legacy? Being remembered as the best fetcher, or best link man, or most all-around skilled loose forward? Or remembered as the guy who was able to get away with more illegal play than anyone else?

Anyway, I've said all I have to say about Richie.

I don't think richie really gives two stuffs what a couple of Aussie blokes on a rugby forum think of him. He's a true great of the game, and thoroughly deserves his motm last night ( which by my calc means he was outplayed by nobody)
 

Scarfman

Knitter of the Scarf
Population Kiwiland: 4 million (not counting woolly friends)
Population rest of rugby playing world: I dunno, 1 billion?

Richie's legacy is assured in New Zealand. If that's all he cares about, fine. With other people, I reckon they are conflicted. Very good player, but was allowed to get away with too much by refs. See Kaplan's protection of him for an example.

Here's something else you and Richie don't have to care about. I reckon 10 years ago, the ABs were my 2nd favourite team. However (1) their out-of-proportion cheating and (2) the behavior of Kiwi fans on the Silver Fern, has made them my least favourite team in world rugby. I would rather England won RWC11 than the ABs.
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
Thought it was worth re-posting myself in this thread:

This is quite ironic really. Last week in the 'is mccaw a cheat' thread or whatever it is called I said he wasn't, and just like another openside was trying to get away with as much as possible for his team. Then I stated that the only players I consider cheats are ones that fake injuries or take dives to ensure that other players are either penalised or suspended. He comes out and does that straight away.

McCaw is officially a cheat now in my book.

We can not let this occur in our game. Diving has ruined Sookball for many supporters, and IMO we should be doing the opposite of what they do about it and crack down on divers. The likes of McCaw should be cited and suspended for diving.

I have no doubt that if he didn't take a dive it wouldn't have been a penalty and yellow card. It was a joke decision as it was, but he made sure someone saw that little bit of contact. It deserves a weeks suspension.
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
I don't think richie really gives two stuffs what a couple of Aussie blokes on a rugby forum think of him. He's a true great of the game, and thoroughly deserves his motm last night ( which by my calc means he was outplayed by nobody)

Yeah, because they love giving man of the match awards to losing teams, don't they?

I would have given it to Mealamu myself.
 
M

Muttonbird

Guest
OK - but you tell me. What's a better legacy? Being remembered as the best fetcher, or best link man, or most all-around skilled loose forward? Or remembered as the guy who was able to get away with more illegal play than anyone else?

Anyway, I've said all I have to say about Richie.
You can't disguise your bitterness on the subject though.
 
M

Muttonbird

Guest
Yeah, because they love giving man of the match awards to losing teams, don't they?

I would have given it to Mealamu myself.
An Aussie specialty - Darren Lockyer in the losing team at the 2008 Rugby League World Cup final.
 

MajorlyRagerly

Trevor Allan (34)
Population Kiwiland: 4 million (not counting woolly friends)
Population rest of rugby playing world: I dunno, 1 billion?

Richie's legacy is assured in New Zealand. If that's all he cares about, fine. With other people, I reckon they are conflicted. Very good player, but was allowed to get away with too much by refs. See Kaplan's protection of him for an example.

Here's something else you and Richie don't have to care about. I reckon 10 years ago, the ABs were my 2nd favourite team. However (1) their out-of-proportion cheating and (2) the behavior of Kiwi fans on the Silver Fern, has made them my least favourite team in world rugby. I would rather England won RWC11 than the ABs.

Thats your perogative Scarfman & I'm sure there are probably 5 or 6 others who share your view. The reason I post here as well as TSF is specifically to try and get more perspective - and after being resident here 6 odd month and seeing how a few people's view suddently seems to become gospel (RMC cheat is a prime example) I can see why it pissed you off so much.

Regardless of your opinion of us, our fans, our teams etc - I'm always up for a beer to dissect and discuss with any fan of any country regardless of their view of NZ & Richie McGod. And that is what it's all about. As soon as rugby goes down poofbal path of this not being possible, frankly, I'm not interested.
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
Whats this from Scotty? Where did he dive etc etc?

I am overstating it, but there was a fair bit of play acting in the contact with Mitchell (throwing his arms out and jumping backwards) considering how light the contact was. This is the main reason the touch judges even saw the contact, and why Mitchell got the first yellow card.

It is not a trait I like seeing in rugby players. I have less respect for him or anyone else that does it because of it.
 
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