Rugby expansion in QLD? ...where?

[saulih]

Maybe this post should be in the grassroots rugby section but I will put it here for starters...

From the QRU website: http://www.redsrugby.com.au/library/news/2010/100512_players_flocking_to_qld,71812.html

Playing rugby in Queensland has its attractions


Wednesday, 12 May 2010
Whether it’s the great form of the QR Reds or the short sleeves winter weather, playing rugby in Queensland is a popular option for the international rugby fraternity, with players from 24 countries transferring their registration to the Sunshine State so far in 2010.

From Belgium to Zimbabwe and 22 countries in between, a total of 202 overseas registered players have been cleared to play for Queensland clubs since 1 January, with another 13 currently going through the approval process.

Of those already transferred, the three leading nations are New Zealand (79 players), England (44) and Scotland (13). The highest profile transfer is former All Black Caleb Ralph, who turned out last weekend for the Sunshine Coast Stingrays, scoring a try in his Premier Rugby debut.

Some are also Aussies returning home, such as: former Reds and Wallaby great Toutai Kefu, like Caleb Ralph also now with the Sunshine Coast Stingrays after a stint in Japan; former Reds hooker Ole Avei rejoining Sunnybank and Easts 2007 Premier Player of the Year Matt Brandon, also back home from Japan.

Queensland has also attracted 77 players from other states since the beginning of the year, with 37 joining from New South Wales, 15 from ACT, nine from Victoria, six each from the Northern Territory and Western Australia and four from South Australia.

In comparison, 35 players left Queensland in 2010 to play interstate, while a further 23 transferred overseas.

Players from outside Australia registered to play rugby in Queensland since 1 January, 2010:

Belgium - 1
Canada - 6
Cook Islands - 1
England - 44
Fiji - 3
France - 5
Germany - 3
Hong Kong - 2
Ireland - 7
Italy - 1
Japan - 7
Netherlands - 3
New Zealand - 79
Papua New Guinea - 1
Peru - 1
Portugal - 1
Samoa - 1
Scotland - 13
South Africa - 6
Sweden - 1
Tonga - 1
United States of America - 8
Wales - 6
Zimbabwe - 1

Transfers from within Australia:

NSW - 37
NSWSRU - 5
NSWCRU - 21
NSWRU - 11
ACT - 15
NT - 6
SA - 4
VIC - 9
WA - 6

202 Overseas and a balance of 40 domestic transfers to Qld this year?

Presuming a playing squad of about 35 players per team, that is almost 7 whole teams?!

Where are the plans for expansion of the QLD competition?!

What am I getting at? These are the figures for participation from the QRU annual report (http://www.qru.com.au/verve/_resources/116201_AnnualReport_LR.pdf):

# of clubs in 2009: 103 (2007 it was 118)
# of schools players in 2009: 18173 (2007 it was 19274)
# of senior club players in 2009: 9793 (2007 it was 8798)

Where the QRU (or it's member groups) have excelled is in participation events (at school level).

# of "sampling" participants in 2009: 36043 (2007 it was merely 16270)

Further in the report it shows the growth that has taken place in schools and junior rugby, but then shows a plateau for senior rugby participation since at least 2002, from between 8700 or so, to 9700 or so in the last year.

From a cursory glance, to me it appears as if the QRU is doing a great job in the juniors and schools but completely dropped the ball for seniors, where there (to me) appears as if there is no drive to increase tiers of competition, or to broadening the competitions already in place. Seriously, why is the major "statewide" (as it is being promoted "...the top level of Queensland non-professional rugby.") competition - the Premier League - only at ten teams? - and yes I know of the talk of the Downs fielding a team. Shouldn't it be 18 - 20 teams strong... is that unrealistic?

Then to hear that about 240 of QLD's players this year have transferred in from other countries and states, just makes me wonder, where do they all fit...? maybe I am reading too much into the loss of fifteen clubs in two years...? Also, do all the seniors that leave 1st XV (and 2nd's and 3rd's) each year keep playing, or is the attrition rate as high as I think it is?

Maybe I am just blowing steam, and am missing something. If so tell me...

 

[TOCC]

Expansion costs money... Simple as that, QRU doesn't have the money to fly team around the state to play each other

additionally, whilst the downs is prob the closest team to joining the premier grade, it doesn't yet have a team good enough, there isn't enough depth to add new players, if you thin the exsisting playing pool you will degrade the quality of the rugby been played...

 

[saulih]

Expansion costs money... Simple as that, QRU doesn't have the money to fly team around the state to play each other

additionally, whilst the downs is prob the closest team to joining the premier grade, it doesn't yet have a team good enough, there isn't enough depth to add new players, if you thin the exsisting playing pool you will degrade the quality of the rugby been played...

Understand the money side of things, that is where promotion and marketing of the game needs to be stepped up.

But to say that a team is not good enough, and that the play quality will be diminished? That is elistism. You could have said that the Sunny Coast was not good enough, and while they have yet to get amongst the top boys they have markedly improved, and do so each year. You could say right now that Wests is not good enough, or the Gold coast.

I would argue that there is plenty of talent in the second string of existing clubs, itching to get their boots on for a run, at a developing club. Being able to play "the best" improves the weaker player. The experience gained by a low performing team playing a far better team is not to be dismissed.

 

[TOCC]

Expansion costs money... Simple as that, QRU doesn't have the money to fly team around the state to play each other

additionally, whilst the downs is prob the closest team to joining the premier grade, it doesn't yet have a team good enough, there isn't enough depth to add new players, if you thin the exsisting playing pool you will degrade the quality of the rugby been played...

Understand the money side of things, that is where promotion and marketing of the game needs to be stepped up.

But to say that a team is not good enough, and that the play quality will be diminished? That is elistism. You could have said that the Sunny Coast was not good enough, and while they have yet to get amongst the top boys they have markedly improved, and do so each year. You could say right now that Wests is not good enough, or the Gold coast.

I would argue that there is plenty of talent in the second string of existing clubs, itching to get their boots on for a run, at a developing club. Being able to play "the best" improves the weaker player. The experience gained by a low performing team playing a far better team is not to be dismissed.

its not elittism at all, its simple plain logic, the more teams you have, the more the quality players are spread about, the lower the quality the matches will become.

 

[saulih]

its not elittism at all, its simple plain logic, the more teams you have, the more the quality players are spread about, the lower the quality the matches will become.

I don't think that is what happens in reality. Good teams draw/attract the better talent, rather than spread out. The weaker team's players need to/get to improve, by pitting themselves against those teams. I think you dismiss the underlying potential of the second string - the talent pool is much larger than the competition allows for.

If what you are supposing is true, then we should reduce the size of the premier comp: reduce it to two teams and let them play each week, and have one pronounced the winner at the end... I know I am taking it to the point of ridiculousness, but the point is valid.

Now, there is a point I will grant you that, where the opposite may be true: introduce fifty teams and most of those teams will play shite, and the reffing will be shite, and the crowds will be shite, and the coaching will be shite.

I just think there is still room for a larger comp than just ten teams, much larger.

 

[TOCC]

whatever mate, believe what you want, but its replicated in all sports at all levels..

Yes by expanding the top tier you will more then likely unearth new talent capable of representing that level, but there will also be those who are proven not capable.

I have a strong involvment with DDRU(Darling Downs Rugby Union), and whilst they have picked the best players available from across the darling downs, they are also aware that whilst 1/3 of the players are capable of playing at a premier grade level, the other 2/3 arent up to scratch.

The coaches and managament at DDRU have in the past voiced there opinion that if the DDRU were to enter the premier grade, that they would be relying on several former Darling Downs players to return home from Brisbane clubs to bolster there side.

There isnt a limitless pool of talent to draw from