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School sporting scholarships/recruitment

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Black & White

Jim Clark (26)
Well then, every GPS school has broken the rules somewhere a long the way. Everyone should be ashamed


Just a differing perspective, I was talking to the last Rugby Master at Newington one time and told me that in Ireland, the schoolboy Rugby is run by by the National Body. They set the rules, the matches and rules of eligibility. As such their focus is on producing the best outcome for Irish Rugby right up to the National Team. I wouldn't see this changing in the NSW GPS System as they would lose control of the game.

But from a management and leadership outlook it does make sense. Again, such a setup would be resisted over parochial interests, the killing of scared cows and a lost of status, indeed lost of jobs for some Rugby Masters and Coaches.

But if administered with tact, diplomacy and respect for tradition there could be something in it for the future of schoolboy at certain levels.

So I invite intelligent and rational discussion how Australian Schoolboy, Rugby could incorporated into a system where other bodies might contribute to management of the game.

Also, thanks to Joker and others for your support in seeking an objective and sensibly standard of debate. I know from one of my posts you disliked my idea that GPS Rugby should be considered more like US College Football. But, we see things differently in a respectful manner, no name calling. As clearly, one post has more to do with a certain individual's state of mind.
 
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sidelineview

Guest
I believe NZ Rugby has an influence over schoolboy rugby over the ditch. They don't do too badly.

Australian rugby has lacked leadership and vision (and resources) as far as grassroots development is concerned. However, the governing bodies have been more proactive in recent seasons. Eg: the Gen Blue mob.

They can do much more.
 

Balmain Subbies

Ted Fahey (11)
Whilst I have suggested GPS and CAS should have a scholarship system I would much more like to see a national or semi national program, where GPS and CAS could still have their comps but structure it in a way where other schools could be involved in domestic comps (not just Waratah shiled) and then have the winning teams of each group go into a finals system whereby we could have state and national champs. For this though we will need a lot of funding and RA involved
 

formerflanker

Peter Fenwicke (45)
It's probably a good time to remind people of the AAGPS Code of practice as to why we are even having this debate at all (http://aagps.nsw.edu.au/about/code-of-practice/). For all of those who say that "Schoolboy sport is professional" and arguing "scholarships improve the quality of the competition", I draw your attention to two particular extracts of the code:

"In other words, the spirit of the amateur – in its best sense – should remain the ideal which guides these aspects of school sports"
and
"..the GPS Headmasters affirm the following code of practice:
  1. No inducements such as sporting scholarships, whether direct, disguised, or at arm’s length, shall be offered by any member school. Financial assistance to talented sportsmen shall not form part of the enrolment strategy of any member school."
Its pretty black and white (pun intended) as to what the status of the GPS competition is supposed to be - but some headmasters choose to take the p**s out of their own code. I'd be embarrassed if I was attending one of those schools - absolutely no glory in cheating.
Two issues spring to mind from your excellent reminder of the Code of Practice for GPS sport.
Firstly, that code has been honoured more in the breach than the observance for many, many years by a majority of the signatories. Any future limitations to the professionalisation of GPS rugby would suffer the same fate. The Graham Richardson mantra "whatever it takes" is a key factor in deciding how many "imports" are attracted, not the Code of Practice.
Secondly, I look at the reaction of the boys at each school and see a general acceptance of sporting scholarships. To many of them, it appears that results matter and winning a GPS rugby premiership casts a positive glow over the whole school, junior players included.

Sporting scholarships are here to stay. It just remains to see if all schools continue to play under that system.
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
Yeah so college kids are as young as 17 when they start at uni on average, the same age as kids in yr 12 playing rugby. .

Rubbish, the vast majority of students admitted to university in Australia have already turned 18. The small minority who were still 17 at the end of Year 12 would have nearly all turned 18 by the time first year university commences inlate Feb/early March.
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
I believe NZ Rugby has an influence over schoolboy rugby over the ditch. They don't do too badly.

Australian rugby has lacked leadership and vision (and resources) as far as grassroots development is concerned. However, the governing bodies have been more proactive in recent seasons. Eg: the Gen Blue mob.

They can do much more.

In NZ schools are now refusing to play others who recruit/scholarship.

The ethical quagmire that is schoolboy rugby has been further muddied with Auckland powerhouse St Kentigern College being excluded from next year's Auckland 1A First XV competition.
The stunning turn of events has seen a coalition of schools agree to boycott playing St Kents because of their recruitment policy that has been deemed morally and ethically reprehensible by rival schools.
The fee-paying independent school admitted to recruiting five senior elite players from rival 1st XVs to bolster their squad for 2019.
The Herald understands King's College, another independent fee-paying school, was also put on notice but they have agreed to enact changes to their rugby programme.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12171645
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
T

Sporting scholarships are here to stay. It just remains to see if all schools continue to play under that system.

The broader question is that those who see the scholarshipping of students as a way to save Australian rugby are running against the evidence. The time of recruting elite athletes into a small number of private schools in Sydney and Brisbane has co-incided with the general decline in Australian rugby.

If Rugby Australia had any money to invest in development, the first place it should go is to increasing the number of club based juniors and the second place it should go is to supporting state high school rugby programmes. Both of these initiatives are linked by the way.
 

southsider

Arch Winning (36)
And you're no doubt aware also that NCAA rules mean that such scholarships have fairly strict GPA requirements?

Even today that is the case, as I know a number of people whose kids are/were at US universities. You have to produce school reports and grades back to Year 9 and the academic grades need to stay above a certain level.

Noting that schools are dealing with children, in an environment where sport is mandatory for all students whereas universities are dealing with adults and sport is a discretionary activity.

Nice red herring though. You'll fit in well on this thread.

Sorry quick hands but as someone who works in university sport I have to jump in here. American colleges may have strict guidelines around minimum academic requirements but the actual requirements are actually pretty low, outside of Ivy League colleagues a below average Australian student is still able to receive a full sporting scholarship
 
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GingerBreadCrab

Guest
The fee-paying independent school admitted to recruiting five senior elite players from rival 1st XVs to bolster their squad for 2019.

Well that's obviously not on. Lots of moving and shaking happens at U/15's level and under across Australia, considered by many to be fair game. Not too many boys are willing to swap allegiances once they've cracked 1st XV.
 

southsider

Arch Winning (36)
Rubbish, the vast majority of students admitted to university in Australia have already turned 18. The small minority who were still 17 at the end of Year 12 would have nearly all turned 18 by the time first year university commences inlate Feb/early March.


Also not true, especially the Queensland kids who finish school earlier
 
G

GingerBreadCrab

Guest
Rubbish, the vast majority of students admitted to university in Australia have already turned 18. The small minority who were still 17 at the endof Year 12 would have nearly all turned 18 by the time first year university commences inlate Feb/early March.

Not too sure about this - until 2019 the large majority of QLD children finishing school were 17. I finished school in NSW aged 17, so did probably 30% of my cohort.
 

southsider

Arch Winning (36)
I’m with Balmain Subbies here, let the scholarships flow. Gives student athletes a leg up in their sporting pursuits while still offering them a solid education.

Sport high school union programs are shit, there’s not a single sport high school in the country that runs a program anywhere near as well as a private school does

I don’t see what the big deal is besides it’s currently “not allowed”, I think those rules are outdated and should be revisited
 

Joker

Alan Cameron (40)
Will this be the future? Will it get to this?


47579693_360481304527408_2161902239759728640_n.jpg



(No harm towards Newington, but it was the black and white that swayed it)
 

Balmain Subbies

Ted Fahey (11)
Rubbish, the vast majority of students admitted to university in Australia have already turned 18. The small minority who were still 17 at the end of Year 12 would have nearly all turned 18 by the time first year university commences inlate Feb/early March.


Nope, once again you became a keyboard warrior before engaging brain. I was referring to the US college system champ
 

Black & White

Jim Clark (26)
Will this be the future? Will it get to this?


47579693_360481304527408_2161902239759728640_n.jpg



(No harm towards Newington, but it was the black and white that swayed it)

Lets not forget The Scots College, they spend far more money on scholarships than any body else. Remember the Basket boycott some years ago. Believe me they make Newington look like Paupers.
 
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