Springboks vs All Blacks @ Ellispark

[Biffo]

Pollard came some way, he have the BMT in spades like I qouted before the first test in NZ. Serfontein sure is the other one who look like the great Danie Gerber from day 1 I have seen him play.

PB, you were surely right on the ball with those two predictions.
Bob Dwyer wrote that winning a world cup is like doing a jigsaw over three years.
Mr Meyer has, clearly, been at his jigsaw puzzle for two years.
the two you mention, Pollard and Serfontein, fit very well two spots where new pieces were needed.

Mr Meyer's jigsaw is looking very good right now.
what are the remaining missing pieces?
locks?
any others?

 

[PaarlBok]

PB, you were surely right on the ball with those two predictions.
Bob Dwyer wrote that winning a world cup is like doing a jigsaw over three years.
Mr Meyer has, clearly, been at his jigsaw puzzle for two years.
the two you mention, Pollard and Serfontein, fit very well two spots where new pieces were needed.

Mr Meyer's jigsaw is looking very good right now.
what are the remaining missing pieces?
locks?
any others?

The most pleasing thing is that Meyer finally see the light in the gameplan we have to play.

We have a lot of WC u20 youngsters like the mention two who is coming through the ranks, playing CC level. You'll see them in the S15 next year.

In my view there is ONE missing piece called Heinrich Brussouw. Most jump up and down about Vermeulens play, he and Heinrich is one of the best units you want to see in tandem. I am praying that Meyer will change his view on Brussouw.

 

[PaarlBok]

The young lock that have BOK written all over him is JD Schickerling. Sad he broke his neck but if he regain his health, he'll be a future Bok.

 

[PiXeL_Ninja]

1 word = Tighthead

 

[PaarlBok]

1 word = Tighthead

Frans Malherbe.

 

[Phil]

What a contrast my weekend viewing was!SA vs AB's was shown at 10 pm here(Thailand)and was one of the best games I have seen for a long time.Certainly the highlight of TRC and congratulations to both teams.How lucky are they both to have no.10's like Pollard/Lambie and Cruden/Barrett(not forgetting DC).Plus forwards like Vermeulin,Bismark,McCaw,Read.
I went to bed very happy but then woke up to watch Argies v Wallabies at 5.40 am - enough said!

 

[Biffo]

In my view there is ONE missing piece called Heinrich Brussouw. Most jump up and down about Vermeulens play, he and Heinrich is one of the best units you want to see in tandem. I am praying that Meyer will change his view on Brussouw.

i half agree with you.
Mr Meyer should find a way to play Brussouw, who will be enormously enervating and empowering for the Bokke's running game which is coming along OK and will be fine-tuned before the RWC.

the half where i don't agree is that i think you need at least one more lock.
what do you think of PSDT?

 

[Biffo]

What a contrast my weekend viewing was!SA vs AB's was shown at 10 pm here(Thailand)and was one of the best games I have seen for a long time.Certainly the highlight of TRC and congratulations to both teams.How lucky are they both to have no.10's like Pollard/Lambie and Cruden/Barrett(not forgetting DC).Plus forwards like Vermeulin,Bismark,McCaw,Read.
I went to bed very happy but then woke up to watch Argies v Wallabies at 5.40 am - enough said!

ditto.
i had the same experience.
great time at The Office for the Saffas and AIGs - especially when the kiwis present started a whinge right after full time.
pity Wall Street has been turned over and its resident feral kiwis are now looking for another sports bar to make insufferable.

yeah, getting up at 5.30 to watch that garbage wasn't much fun, was it?

 

[PaarlBok]

i half agree with you.
Mr Meyer should find a way to play Brussouw, who will be enormously enervating and empowering for the Bokke's running game which is coming along OK and will be fine-tuned before the RWC.

the half where i don't agree is that i think you need at least one some more lock.
what do you think of PSDT?

He is a good one. Grandson of Piet "Spiere" du Toit. Right bloodline.

 

[Biffo]

He is a good one. Grandson of Piet "Spiere" du Toit. Right bloodline.

thanks. i like the look of the boy.
lock stocks of the two old blokes tutoring the transitting Etzebeth and the emerging PSDT would be very impressive.
i don't think any other country has such quality.

here's one for you, PB
while the tight five will, as always, decide most games in RWC, the point of difference between teams in setting Bill's course after it will be the quality of the second rows.

 

[PaarlBok]

thanks. i like the look of the boy.
lock stocks of the two old blokes tutoring the transitting Etzebeth and the emerging PSDT would be very impressive.
i don't think any other country has such quality.

here's one for you, PB
while the tight five will, as always, decide most games in RWC, the point of difference between teams in setting Bill's course after it will be the quality of the second rows.

The way I understand it is that the forwards will decide the winner and the backs the scoreline. Myself are much more happy with the way Meyer is going about this. Was worried with his gameplan and old age home direction.

 

[Dewald Nel]

The way I understand it is that the forwards will decide the winner and the backs the scoreline. Myself are much more happy with the way Meyer is going about this. Was worried with his gameplan and old age home direction.

What I am wondering is WHY you were worried about it.

We saw with him in 2002 when he took over at the Blue Bulls, how he first got the basics right. Only from 2005 onward did he make us really play with more freedom. And this was the best approach, since we needed to learn how to win first, in order to build confidence. You can't really give the ball air if you have no confidence to do it.

He has done the same with the Boks since 2012 - yes, it hasn't been pretty a lot of the time, but he had to get rid of some old habits that crept in under Piet Helium, and this doesn't happen overnight - not nearly.

We had to build the belief and confidence in our team first.

We have still, however, had glimpses of a more all-round game the last couple of years, Brisbane 2013 and Ellis Park 2013 being the most notable.

Also, the other problem is, most of our current provincial coaches coach a forward-dominated gameplan, so it's not as easy as you'd think to change their mindset from playing for the Sharks/WP to the Springboks - not in one season(2012) anyway.

It's like trying to build a Ferrari with Beetle parts. You may even manage it somehow, but you're gonna struggle, and will need to improvise.

But this year you could clearly see the confidence building and the mindset changing, the players are really playing with more freedom. Of course we're not nearly the All Blacks yet, but we're getting better than we have been before.

Regarding the ouetehuis players, I don't understand the problem with this either. Only one of these players(Juan Smith) really failed, and if you don't try them, you'll never know anyway. In my view it's better to pick the guy with 100 test caps and who is as good as the youngster, than to pick the youngster with only 10 caps, or even less in most cases.

I am really happy with the progress, if I look where we're coming from under PDV's under-coached team, and you can see there is a clear game plan. Our breakdown success has increased ten-fold in the last 3 years, something we barely saw under any other coach before. Yes, Brussow on his own was brilliant, but nobody else contributed on that front, he did it out of sheer natural ability. Now we have a number of guys who are doing it, even Habana! That you can only put down to coaching. And good coaching.

Heyneke is a man with a plan, I really believe in what he's doing, and I really hope he stays even after 2015, no matter what happens at the world cup.

The only thing that worries me, is our government's incessant meddling with quotas, and their ridiculous 2019 50% quota plan. That would probably scupper any chance of seeing Heyneke return for another stint, since he probably won't be in the mood for such bullshit 0 he's already dealing with it at a lower level.

 

[Ulrich]

PB, you were surely right on the ball with those two predictions.
Bob Dwyer wrote that winning a world cup is like doing a jigsaw over three years.
Mr Meyer has, clearly, been at his jigsaw puzzle for two years.
the two you mention, Pollard and Serfontein, fit very well two spots where new pieces were needed.

Mr Meyer's jigsaw is looking very good right now.
what are the remaining missing pieces?
locks?
any others?

In my opinion they are another #13 and probably also #15. Willie is great and Zane is dependable. The last two differ about as much as Hougaard and FDP/Pienaar differ and Pollard differs from Morne Steyn. Then Pienaar and Lambie can also play #15 if push comes to shove. Ultimately we'd have even another in F. Steyn if his career wasn't seemingly over.

I think one more guy in each position would set us up nicely. We have great locks, but some are not very experienced but have great potential (PSdT). I think our front row is good enough and we have enough players there in all positions, even at tighthead.

I could nit-pick and say Habana could do with a young replacement too, but Pietersen can play there as well and we have Mvovo too who has even proven he can play a bit at #15 as well.

 

[Ulrich]

What I am wondering is WHY you were worried about it.

We saw with him in 2002 when he took over at the Blue Bulls, how he first got the basics right. Only from 2005 onward did he make us really play with more freedom. And this was the best approach, since we needed to learn how to win first, in order to build confidence. You can't really give the ball air if you have no confidence to do it.

He has done the same with the Boks since 2012 - yes, it hasn't been pretty a lot of the time, but he had to get rid of some old habits that crept in under Piet Helium, and this doesn't happen overnight - not nearly.

We had to build the belief and confidence in our team first.

We have still, however, had glimpses of a more all-round game the last couple of years, Brisbane 2013 and Ellis Park 2013 being the most notable.

Also, the other problem is, most of our current provincial coaches coach a forward-dominated gameplan, so it's not as easy as you'd think to change their mindset from playing for the Sharks/WP to the Springboks - not in one season(2012) anyway.

It's like trying to build a Ferrari with Beetle parts. You may even manage it somehow, but you're gonna struggle, and will need to improvise.

But this year you could clearly see the confidence building and the mindset changing, the players are really playing with more freedom. Of course we're not nearly the All Blacks yet, but we're getting better than we have been before.

Regarding the ouetehuis players, I don't understand the problem with this either. Only one of these players(Juan Smith) really failed, and if you don't try them, you'll never know anyway. In my view it's better to pick the guy with 100 test caps and who is as good as the youngster, than to pick the youngster with only 10 caps, or even less in most cases.

I am really happy with the progress, if I look where we're coming from under PDV's under-coached team, and you can see there is a clear game plan. Our breakdown success has increased ten-fold in the last 3 years, something we barely saw under any other coach before. Yes, Brussow on his own was brilliant, but nobody else contributed on that front, he did it out of sheer natural ability. Now we have a number of guys who are doing it, even Habana! That you can only put down to coaching. And good coaching.

Heyneke is a man with a plan, I really believe in what he's doing, and I really hope he stays even after 2015, no matter what happens at the world cup.

The only thing that worries me, is our government's incessant meddling with quotas, and their ridiculous 2019 50% quota plan. That would probably scupper any chance of seeing Heyneke return for another stint, since he probably won't be in the mood for such bullshit 0 he's already dealing with it at a lower level.

Good observations. I'd like to extend some of them here:

• For one, Meyer has the respect of foreign coaches, players and scribes and he doesn't have foot-in-mouth disease. His comments are all things that make us proud and make us look better. A better image for the Boks.
• Meyer and his coaching staff set aside fitness to be improved dramatically from 2014 onward only, because the first thing was to get the buy-in from the players and to win given very little preparation time. They have also mentioned in the media lately that they know they're not where they need to be in this regard but we've got a 6 week camp next year before the World Cup and they plan to really drill the guys there.
• 2013 was all about evolving our game a bit to a add some attacking dimension and as you have mentioned to also improve our breakdown play. Great work by Heyeneke to identify the Scotsman to help in this area who I think deserves more credit than he's been getting. In fact, he's done such a good job that he's been given a permanent role after only consulting last year.
• Our defense has improved, but I don't think it's as good as it has been in Jake White's era. I used to admire Jake but I've lost pretty much all respect for him after what he had done to the Brumbies and now also to the Sharks. Still, credit where credit is due, his Bok side could defend really well.
• Further, Heyneke has managed to get SARU to ban contracted Springboks from playing in the final rounds of the Currie Cup this year which gives a big chunk of the squad 4 weeks off before the November tours up north whilst the coaching team are also having 4 days between Oct 20 and 24th to sharpen conditioning and other aspects which we never had under previous coaches.

 

[Lee Grant]

Some great comments in here SAffers.

Thanks

 

[Blue]

I think the main reason our defense is not as good as under Jake is personnel and time.

Jan Serfontein is a rookie playing at 13. Backline defense hinges around the 13.

The other reason is chopping and changing the back row.

Our defense will get better.

I look forward to seeing how Heyneke uses these people next year:

Fourie du Preez
Jacques Fourie
Flip vdM
PS Du Toit
The loosies, if they are all fit (excluding Brussow, whom he will never pick. He wants size).

 

[PaarlBok]

What I am wondering is WHY you were worried about it.

I am still abit worried about him. At least he got his gameplan right but he need to change more things. Hopefull he look like adopting to change (which I never thought he would do).

The big positive is what the young lot brought to the team like Pollard, Serfontein & Hendricks. We dont need overseas players in our team, we have more then enough young talent and he need to chuck players like Flo, Bakkies, Schalk, Habana, Pienaar & kie and pick MORE young talents or players like Brussouw. Can you image how awesome a loose trio of
Brussouw, Alberts & Vermeulen will be? I have been asking for Reinach since when, now finally he get his chance and wont need 75 test like Pienaar to make the 9 jersey his own.

Will he stick to the gameplan in NH? Pollard probably in 10 he can do both.

then your worry

The only thing that worries me, is our government's incessant meddling with quotas, and their ridiculous 2019 50% quota plan. That would probably scupper any chance of seeing Heyneke return for another stint, since he probably won't be in the mood for such bullshit 0 he's already dealing with it at a lower level.

that wont go away and have sort of force him to pick Oupa. He dont make it easier for himself, picking chicken runners while he dont use the likes of talented players like Carr or Kolisi. The only rugby person that will get away with this is Kenny Watson at the Kings. He just have to adobt and manage this better.

 

[PaarlBok]

In my opinion they are another #13 and probably also #15. Willie is great and Zane is dependable. The last two differ about as much as Hougaard and FDP/Pienaar differ and Pollard differs from Morne Steyn. Then Pienaar and Lambie can also play #15 if push comes to shove. Ultimately we'd have even another in F. Steyn if his career wasn't seemingly over.

I think one more guy in each position would set us up nicely. We have great locks, but some are not very experienced but have great potential (PSdT). I think our front row is good enough and we have enough players there in all positions, even at tighthead.

I could nit-pick and say Habana could do with a young replacement too, but Pietersen can play there as well and we have Mvovo too who has even proven he can play a bit at #15 as well.

Zane dependable, more a Meyer failure. Also a chicken runner these days. There are much better 15s playing CC at the moment. Frans Steyn dont deseve a Bok jersey, he put himself in isolation being a spoiled brat. You should watch more CC rugby, there are more then enough young 15 and 13 talent. and you right about Habana.

 

[Phil]

ditto.
i had the same experience.
great time at The Office for the Saffas and AIGs - especially when the kiwis present started a whinge right after full time.
pity Wall Street has been turned over and its resident feral kiwis are now looking for another sports bar to make insufferable.

yeah, getting up at 5.30 to watch that garbage wasn't much fun, was it?

Not visited Soi 33 for about 2 years but have experienced the Kiwis in Wall St far too many times!Looks like The Office is not the place to go even if Aussie run.

 

[Brisbok]

The big positive is what the young lot brought to the team like Pollard, Serfontein & Hendricks. We dont need overseas players in our team, we have more then enough young talent and he need to chuck players like Flo, Bakkies, Schalk, Habana, Pienaar & kie and pick MORE young talents or players like Brussouw. Can you image how awesome a loose trio of
Brussouw, Alberts & Vermeulen will be?

PB - you keep banging on about Brussouw but IMO he has not been anywhere near the player in the last few seasons that he was when he first came onto the scene in 2009.

He seems to have been injured about as much as he has been available in recent times and has barely been a standout at Super Rugby level.

FLO is IMO, a much better all round player than Brussouw. He has been just as good as Brussouw at the breakdown (Brussouw seems to have been penalised a lot the last few seasons), he is much better with ball in hand and he has the height to provide a decent lineout option.

Yes, he is a 'chicken-runner', but at this stage they are eligible to be selected and will be for the foreseeable future. So that is a non-issue. If you are comparing players on ability alone, Flo is a much better option and has had a great couple of seasons for the Boks. I cannot see any specific improvement that Brussouw would make to our existing back row, they have gelled into a very good combination so why change it?