State of the Union (origin) discussion

[RugbyReg]

Lots of chat happening, so think it's worth putting in one thread.

I wrote an article earlier this year when this was raised by HMcL.

I think eligibility details are to come, but I proposed first team after school - because that is the first decision made by the player. Teams I came up with were:

QUEENSLAND:​

15 Tom Banks 14 Filipo Daugunu 13 Tevita Kuridrani 12 Hamish Stewart 11 Jordan Petaia 10 James O’Connor 9 Tate McDermott 8 Isi Naisirani 7 Liam Wright 6 Harry Wilson 5 Angus Blythe 4 Rob Simmons 3 Taniela Tupou 2 Alex Mafi 1 James Slipper
16: Andrew Ready 17 JP Smith 18 Ruan Smith 19 Michael Wood 20 Fraser McReigt 21 Ian Prior 22 Bryce Hegarty 23 Jonah Placid

NEW SOUTH WALES:​

15 Kurtley Beale 14 Andrew Kellaway 13 Reece Hodge 12 Irae Simone 11 Jack Maddocks 10 Will Harrison 9 Jake Gordon 8 Jack Dempsey 7 Michael Hooper 6 Ned Hanigan 5 Matt Philip 4 Lukhan Salakai-Loto 3 Allan Ala'alatoa 2 Folau Fainga’a 1 Scott Sio
16 Brandon Paenga-Amosa 17 Angus Bell 18 Harry Johnson-Holmes 19 Jed Hollway 20 Michael Wells 21 Mitch Short 22 Billy Meakes 23 Tom Wright
But I don't think Vic and ACT and WA should be ignored because I think they can produce three pretty interesting teams:

AUSTRALIAN CAPITAL TERRITORY:​

15 Mack Hansen 14 Toni Pulu 13 Len Ikitau 12 Matt To'omua 11 Henry Speight 10 Noah Loloesio 9 Joe Powell 8 Tom Cusack 7 Angus Allen 6 Luke Gersekowski 5 Tom Staniforth 4 Darcy Swain 3 Tetera Faulkner 2 Robbie Abel 1 Tom Ross
16 Lachlan Lonergan 17 Harry Lloyd 18 Angus Wagner 19 Nick Frost 20 Michael Oakman-Hunt 21 Ryan Lonergan 22 Denis Waight 23 Lincoln Smith

VICTORIA:​

15 Ah-Mu Tuimalealiifano 14 Harry Potter 13 Hunter Paisami 12 Semisi Tupou 11 Marika Koroibete 10 Mack Mason 9 Reece Fuller 8 Rob Leota 7 Peter Samu 6 Rob Valetini 5 Trevor Hosea 4 Ola Tauelangi 3 Fereti Sa’aga 2 Jordan Uelese 1 Pone Fa’amausili
16 Mahe Vailanu 17 Isaac Aedo-Kailea 18 Alex Sa’aga 19 Seru Uru 20 Liam Stone 21 Moses Poreo 22 Moses Tuipulotu 22 Sione Tui

WESTERN AUSTRALIA:​

15 Dane Haylett-Petty 14 Brad Lacey 13 Grayson Makara 12 Nick Jooste 11 Jack Hardy 10 Reesjan Pasitoa 9 Ryan Louwrens 8 Richard Hardwick 7 Carlo Tizzano 6 Brynard Stander 5 Jackson Pugh 4 Ross Haylett-Petty 3 Jermaine Ainsley 2 Anaru Rangi 1 Chris Heiberg
16 Mees Erasmus 17 Tom Sheminant 18 Kieran Longbottom 19 Tevin Ferris 20 Ollie Callan 21 Michael McDonald 22 Ethan Reilly 23 Jordan Luke
To keep the fantasy going, we could then do a QLD A and NSW A game too - perhaps even a series v the above three.

QUEENSLAND A​

15 Jock Campbell 14 Andy Muirhead 13 Chris Feauai-Sautia 12 Karmichael Hunt 11 Campbell Magnay 10 Carter Gordon 9 James Tuttle 8 Angus Scott-Young 7 Brad Wilkin 6 Angus Cottrell 5 Ben Grant 4 Blake Enever 3 Feao Fotuaika 2 Heath Tessmann 1 Dane Zander
16 Joe Cotton 17 Harry Hoopert 18 Shambeckler Vui 19 Tuiana Tualima 20 Tom Kibble 21 Moses Sorovi 22 Jake Stachan 23 Byron Ralston

NEW SOUTH WALES A​

15 Jack McGregor 14 Mark Nawaqanitawase 13 Alex Newsome 12 Lalakai Foketi 11 Tom English 10 Andrew Deegan 9 Theo Strang 8 Lachlan McCaffrey 7 Chris Alcock 6 Will Miller 5 Cadeyrn Neville 4 Pat Tafa 3 Tom Robertson 2 Damien Fitzpatrick 1 Matt Gibbon
16 Andrew Tuala 17 Rory O’Connor 18 Tom Horton 19 Luke Jones 20 Lachlan Swinton 21 Jack Grant 22 Bayley Kuenzle 23 James Ramm
Of course these teams were picked some time ago and players have moved on (Beale and Enever). But something to get the chat going.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I'm really not sold on the notion but as it's part of the broadcasting deal then prepared to see it have a run.

 

[sendit]

i think solely first team after school is too narrow and ambiguous, someone may be a died in the wool QLD/NSW but went somewhere else for an opportunity, i think the current RL format is pretty on the money

Also wouldn't that make JOC (James O'Connor) a WA man seeing he went straight from school to the Force? Same with Hooper and ACT?

If possible would we allow OS players to participate as a way of keeping them involved in Australian rugby and a potential pathway to bringing them home?

Do w have an U20's version? If we do, do we encourage our young professional players to drop down if not selected for the senior team?

 

[qwerty51]

Where they attended the majority of high school. It's not hard.

Given most of the players made their state schoolboy sides, this is where they first represented their state and form that state identity with their mates.

 

[sendit]

Where they attended the majority of high school. It's not hard.

Given most of the players made their state schoolboy sides, this is where they first represented their state and form that state identity with their mates.

not that easy either

if a player is born and bred in QLD and stays there till high school then moves to say NSW. There's a reasonably decent chance that they'd have more of an affinity for QLD and in my book, a pretty decent argument for representing them

 

[qwerty51]

Well I don't agree, high school is 12/13. Do you care about a state rivalry before that age that much?

 

[Derpus]

Well I don't agree, high school is 12/13. Do you care about a state rivalry before that age that much?

I'd say so. All those prejudices usually come from your parents and are pretty drilled in at that point.

 

[sendit]

Well I don't agree, high school is 12/13. Do you care about a state rivalry before that age that much?

1) who cares if the rivalry is formed at that age, its where players identify with as their home as adults, which could very well be the place they spent the first 12 years of their life. They aren't playing as a 12/13 yr old so if the rivalry at that age isn't there it doesn't actually matter

2) Number 2 and and more importantly - Are you fucking kidding?? Have you been to a primary school the week of SOO? Have you not been to a game and seen the literal thousands of primary aged school kids out late on a school night to support their teams decked out in Blue or Maroon

 

[D-Box]

How is this for a model

2021
Week 1
1 NSW V QLD
2 VIC V WA

Week 2
3 Looser 1 vs Winner 2

Week 3 - GF and Champ
4 Winner 1 vs Winner 3

2022 and onward
Week 1
1 Game 4 2020 repeat
2 Looser 2020 1 vs Looser 2020 3

Weeks 3 & 4 same pattern as 20201

This give WA and VIC buy in but initially still would probably lead to two NSW v QLD games a year, with the chance of an upset. It also gives us a point of difference to RL SOO

Potentially you could expand WA to give them NT & SA and give VIC Tasmania. True ACT developed players would probably go to NSW.

 

[Pfitzy]

I am only here to register my protest at this lame attempt to rip off a league concept.

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

I am only here to register my protest at this lame attempt to rip off a league concept.

All the SRAu teams already represent a region. This will harm their brands. It works in league as there is 16 teams representing cites not regions.

I like that they are looking at other ideas but I really dont like this one.

 

[papabear]

tbh I think if it is going to work good on ARU. Whether it will or not, we will see.

I personally think that rugbys strength is its local club sides and it should work with and around them.

 

[sendit]

if we go TT with our current franchises i think you keep it to NSW/QLD only but i'm skeptical that the concept would work and probably better off doing possibles v probables

If we go domestic and break down teams to areas/regions then i thnik it could be pretty successful and a WA/VIC game into a NSW/QLD would be ideal

 

[Bobby Sands]

Rugby needs more "calendar" events, this is a no-brainer to getting back on free to air.

It's the most low hanging fruit of all time.

Also, very few of the "ACT" players (roughly 5 or so) are from the ACT. Does WA produce more than ACT already?

In fact, on second look the WA side is very impressive. Twiggy is going to turn that state into a rugby powerhouse.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Lots of chat happening, so think it's worth putting in one thread.

I wrote an article earlier this year when this was raised by HMcL.

I think eligibility details are to come, but I proposed first team after school - because that is the first decision made by the player. Teams I came up with were:

QUEENSLAND:​

15 Tom Banks 14 Filipo Daugunu 13 Tevita Kuridrani 12 Hamish Stewart 11 Jordan Petaia 10 James O’Connor 9 Tate McDermott 8 Isi Naisirani 7 Liam Wright 6 Harry Wilson 5 Angus Blythe 4 Rob Simmons 3 Taniela Tupou 2 Alex Mafi 1 James Slipper
16: Andrew Ready 17 JP Smith 18 Ruan Smith 19 Michael Wood 20 Fraser McReigt 21 Ian Prior 22 Bryce Hegarty 23 Jonah Placid

NEW SOUTH WALES:​

15 Kurtley Beale 14 Andrew Kellaway 13 Reece Hodge 12 Irae Simone 11 Jack Maddocks 10 Will Harrison 9 Jake Gordon 8 Jack Dempsey 7 Michael Hooper 6 Ned Hanigan 5 Matt Philip 4 Lukhan Salakai-Loto 3 Allan Ala'alatoa 2 Folau Fainga’a 1 Scott Sio
16 Brandon Paenga-Amosa 17 Angus Bell 18 Harry Johnson-Holmes 19 Jed Hollway 20 Michael Wells 21 Mitch Short 22 Billy Meakes 23 Tom Wright
But I don't think Vic and ACT and WA should be ignored because I think they can produce three pretty interesting teams:

AUSTRALIAN CAPITAL TERRITORY:​

15 Mack Hansen 14 Toni Pulu 13 Len Ikitau 12 Matt To'omua 11 Henry Speight 10 Noah Loloesio 9 Joe Powell 8 Tom Cusack 7 Angus Allen 6 Luke Gersekowski 5 Tom Staniforth 4 Darcy Swain 3 Tetera Faulkner 2 Robbie Abel 1 Tom Ross
16 Lachlan Lonergan 17 Harry Lloyd 18 Angus Wagner 19 Nick Frost 20 Michael Oakman-Hunt 21 Ryan Lonergan 22 Denis Waight 23 Lincoln Smith

VICTORIA:​

15 Ah-Mu Tuimalealiifano 14 Harry Potter 13 Hunter Paisami 12 Semisi Tupou 11 Marika Koroibete 10 Mack Mason 9 Reece Fuller 8 Rob Leota 7 Peter Samu 6 Rob Valetini 5 Trevor Hosea 4 Ola Tauelangi 3 Fereti Sa’aga 2 Jordan Uelese 1 Pone Fa’amausili
16 Mahe Vailanu 17 Isaac Aedo-Kailea 18 Alex Sa’aga 19 Seru Uru 20 Liam Stone 21 Moses Poreo 22 Moses Tuipulotu 22 Sione Tui

WESTERN AUSTRALIA:​

15 Dane Haylett-Petty 14 Brad Lacey 13 Grayson Makara 12 Nick Jooste 11 Jack Hardy 10 Reesjan Pasitoa 9 Ryan Louwrens 8 Richard Hardwick 7 Carlo Tizzano 6 Brynard Stander 5 Jackson Pugh 4 Ross Haylett-Petty 3 Jermaine Ainsley 2 Anaru Rangi 1 Chris Heiberg
16 Mees Erasmus 17 Tom Sheminant 18 Kieran Longbottom 19 Tevin Ferris 20 Ollie Callan 21 Michael McDonald 22 Ethan Reilly 23 Jordan Luke
To keep the fantasy going, we could then do a QLD A and NSW A game too - perhaps even a series v the above three.

QUEENSLAND A​

15 Jock Campbell 14 Andy Muirhead 13 Chris Feauai-Sautia 12 Karmichael Hunt 11 Campbell Magnay 10 Carter Gordon 9 James Tuttle 8 Angus Scott-Young 7 Brad Wilkin 6 Angus Cottrell 5 Ben Grant 4 Blake Enever 3 Feao Fotuaika 2 Heath Tessmann 1 Dane Zander
16 Joe Cotton 17 Harry Hoopert 18 Shambeckler Vui 19 Tuiana Tualima 20 Tom Kibble 21 Moses Sorovi 22 Jake Stachan 23 Byron Ralston

NEW SOUTH WALES A​

15 Jack McGregor 14 Mark Nawaqanitawase 13 Alex Newsome 12 Lalakai Foketi 11 Tom English 10 Andrew Deegan 9 Theo Strang 8 Lachlan McCaffrey 7 Chris Alcock 6 Will Miller 5 Cadeyrn Neville 4 Pat Tafa 3 Tom Robertson 2 Damien Fitzpatrick 1 Matt Gibbon
16 Andrew Tuala 17 Rory O’Connor 18 Tom Horton 19 Luke Jones 20 Lachlan Swinton 21 Jack Grant 22 Bayley Kuenzle 23 James Ramm
Of course these teams were picked some time ago and players have moved on (Beale and Enever). But something to get the chat going.

Sorry Reg. What's the criteria that you're using to select the squads? Because aren't the likes of Brad Wilkin and Nick Frost from NSW? While Matt To'omua while born in Melbourne spent the majority of his youth in Queensland.

 

[KOB1987]

Sorry Reg. What's the criteria that you're using to select the squads? Because aren't the likes of Brad Wilkin and Nick Frost from NSW? While Matt To'omua while born in Melbourne spent the majority of his youth in Queensland.

I think he's using first senior game. I have a fairly comprehensive spreadsheet which I compiled one rainy day when this first got thrown around earlier in the year. I rooted each player by both where they played when they turned 16 and by first senior game. I don't want to clutter up this thread by listing every player but ask away. I didn't do the Force squad, they weren't in the mix at the time but I will update it when I get a chance.

 

[Omar Comin']

I think SOU is very unlikely to include any teams other than NSW and QLD. How many of the top 50 or so rugby players in Australia have no legitimate connection to either NSW or QLD (i.e. not born in either state and never lived in either state)? I think they'll just make the criteria pretty broad so that almost everyone in Wallabies contention qualifies for 1 or the other.

A combined states barbarians team is the best option for another team, but I don't think they'd add anything from a commercial perspective as not many people would care about the team. And a 3 team series just doesn't work as well as a 2 team series.

 

[Braveheart81]

It seems logical that like rugby league, don't try and be too prescriptive with a hard and fast rule that is applied to every situation and allow a bit of flexibility where there are genuine reasons why someone could be picked to represent different states/territories.

There are clearly some people who would fall into somewhat illogical classifications depending on what rules were used.

 

[sendit]

RL have been working on their eligibility rules for years and finally have a pretty well accepted criteria, we'd be crazy not to at least use their rules as a starting point

 

[Pass it to Dunning!]

I think the State of the Union shouldn't be limited to players currently in Australian clubs. It would be great if a bunch of exiles could be included. I'd love for there to be a means for Will Skelton, Liam Gill, Bernard Foley, etc, to return to Australia for a couple of games.