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Stormers v Brumbies Qualifier

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spikhaza

John Solomon (38)
A trip to the republic for the Brumbies to play the Stormers! My thoughts

- Where are all those Sharks fans that complained about the Reds getting a home qualifier in 2012 despite being last in the six for overall points? Now the boots on the other foot the complaints from RSA seem to have lulled.

- Bring on an all Australian final. The equation for an all Australian Final is very simple: Everybody win! If the Brumbies win they have to play the 'Canes in a semi final, and if they both win it would set up Super Rugby's first ever all Australian Final. Okay pipe dream over but what a sight that would be.

- Brumbies form a worry. They've clicked in and out of form all season so can they put it together?

- If they do win, look for half the Brumbies team to be suspended for seemingly innocuous tackles. Look also for at least one red card given to a Brumbies player on advice from the TMO (Yes Craig I think it's a minimum Red, minimum Red Craig).
 

nathan

Alfred Walker (16)
A trip to the republic for the Brumbies to play the Stormers! My thoughts

- Where are all those Sharks fans that complained about the Reds getting a home qualifier in 2012 despite being last in the six for overall points? Now the boots on the other foot the complaints from RSA seem to have lulled.

- Bring on an all Australian final. The equation for an all Australian Final is very simple: Everybody win! If the Brumbies win they have to play the 'Canes in a semi final, and if they both win it would set up Super Rugby's first ever all Australian Final. Okay pipe dream over but what a sight that would be.

- Brumbies form a worry. They've clicked in and out of form all season so can they put it together?

- If they do win, look for half the Brumbies team to be suspended for seemingly innocuous tackles. Look also for at least one red card given to a Brumbies player on advice from the TMO (Yes Craig I think it's a minimum Red, minimum Red Craig).


Have the match officials been announced yet?
 

Merrow

Arch Winning (36)
A trip to the republic for the Brumbies to play the Stormers! My thoughts

- Where are all those Sharks fans that complained about the Reds getting a home qualifier in 2012 despite being last in the six for overall points? Now the boots on the other foot the complaints from RSA seem to have lulled.

- Bring on an all Australian final. The equation for an all Australian Final is very simple: Everybody win! If the Brumbies win they have to play the 'Canes in a semi final, and if they both win it would set up Super Rugby's first ever all Australian Final. Okay pipe dream over but what a sight that would be.

- Brumbies form a worry. They've clicked in and out of form all season so can they put it together?

- If they do win, look for half the Brumbies team to be suspended for seemingly innocuous tackles. Look also for at least one red card given to a Brumbies player on advice from the TMO (Yes Craig I think it's a minimum Red, minimum Red Craig).
Surely we'd have to have a neutral ref......nah, who am I kidding?
 

ACR

Bob Davidson (42)
Where are all those Sharks fans that complained about the Reds getting a home qualifier in 2012 despite being last in the six for overall points? Now the boots on the other foot the complaints from RSA seem to have lulled.

They finished 7th on points in fact, behind the Crusaders.
 

TahDan

Cyril Towers (30)
- Bring on an all Australian final. The equation for an all Australian Final is very simple: Everybody win! If the Brumbies win they have to play the 'Canes in a semi final, and if they both win it would set up Super Rugby's first ever all Australian Final. Okay pipe dream over but what a sight that would be.

- Brumbies form a worry. They've clicked in and out of form all season so can they put it together?

- If they do win, look for half the Brumbies team to be suspended for seemingly innocuous tackles. Look also for at least one red card given to a Brumbies player on advice from the TMO (Yes Craig I think it's a minimum Red, minimum Red Craig).


Would absolutely love to see an all-Aussie final... I was at both the semi and GF (and pretty well all the others too, truth be told) for the Tahs and the atmosphere at the semi-final in a chockers SFS was nothing short of electric.

A long shot for this year, but never say never...

Absolute dream scenario would be a yeah when the Tahs and Reds were carving up and set up a GF at either Suncorp or ANZ. Would make it like a Super Rugby State of Origin match.
 

TahDan

Cyril Towers (30)
Well hopefully... Worry is that when both NSW and Qld are competitive in Super Rugby they tended to play pretty fucking dour and negative matches. It's tended to only be open when one side is notably weaker


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Brisbok

Cyril Towers (30)
They finished 7th on points in fact, behind the Crusaders.
They were guaranteed "third" position before this round of games and decided to rest 14 of their 15 starters from last week for this game. If they had played a full strength team they would've had every chance of winning last night's game and finishing on 49 points or effectively the 4th highest points total.
 

Brisbok

Cyril Towers (30)
@spikhaza - The Sharks still managed to comfortably knockout the Reds, then fly back to SA, knock over the Stormers and made the final in that year. If the Brumbies are a better team than the Stormers, they should be able to do the same this year?
 

TahDan

Cyril Towers (30)
The Sharks still managed to comfortably knockout the Reds, then fly back to SA, knock over the Stormers and made the final in that year. If the Brumbies are a better team than the Stormers, they should be able to do the same this year?
Depends which Brumbies side turns up and how much the home town ref phenomenon hurts them. This year we've seen some pretty bad calls go against the away teams in a number of the interconference games across all 3 countries, so the Brumbies will need to play bloody tight to win.


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Brisbok

Cyril Towers (30)
Agreed - home town decisions have happened in each of the 3 conferences. As they have in every other season. Each of the away teams in the finals series will have to deal with this, not only the Brumbies.
 

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Do the Brumbies play any other way at the moment? I mean, they've scored some nice tries out wide but it just seems to be all maul the last few weeks.

The Brumbies maul is a bit of a catch 22 for them............

On one hand they'll be criticized that they can't score tries outside of the maul, but when you have a maul so strong that guarantees you a try 9/10 times why would you do anything else?

The issue its created is that the backline hasn't had any match opportunities to try many other attacking plays all year, and when the maul doesn't work then they seem disjointed and have to rely on individual brilliance to cross the line.
 

PiXeL_Ninja

Bill Watson (15)
The biggest difference between the Reds gift 3rd and that of the Stormers is that the Reds limped to 6th, whereas the Stormers could afford to play the system, and rest up 90% of their first choice players.

Has there been a season where your conference hasnt finished last on total points?

Anyway, back to the game - Stormers welcome 3 players back from injury, gave them some game time yesterday. My prediction is for the Stormers to squeak the Brumbs then come back home and join their mates in the Bok camp. Would like to see the canes take it, thoroughly deserved, given the shambles Hammett left them in.
 

TahDan

Cyril Towers (30)
The biggest difference between the Reds gift 3rd and that of the Stormers is that the Reds limped to 6th, whereas the Stormers could afford to play the system, and rest up 90% of their first choice players.

Has there been a season where your conference hasnt finished last on total points?

Pretty sure there's been more than a few mate... The South African sides have made up the numbers on many an occasion. The only conference that's never weak is NZ though.

On the whole given where rugby sits in the Aussie footballing landscape, I reckon we do pretty bloody well given how much oxygen gets sucked up by the NRL and AFL, and now even bloody Soccer. South Africa on the other hand have rugby as a clear second biggest sport.

If you want an example of how well we do when a sport is truly national here, look no further than the cricket ;-) .



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PiXeL_Ninja

Bill Watson (15)
Pretty sure there's been more than a few mate. The South African sides have made up the numbers on many an occasion. The only conference that's never weak is NZ though.

On the whole given where rugby sits in the Aussie footballing landscape, I reckon we do pretty bloody well given how much oxygen gets sucked up by the NRL and AFL, and now even bloody Soccer. South Africa on the other hand have rugby as a clear second biggest sport.

If you want an example of how well we do when a sport is truly national here, look no further than the cricket ;-) .



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Lots of talk, no facts. You see the problem with most of the posters from the antipodes is that they do not watch the SA games, and I suppose given the times that the games at played at it is somewhat understandable. An unfortunate side effect however is that it gives you a warped sense of reality, I really believe that most posters dont even watch a 5 min highlights packe of the SA games, and yet they think that they are somehow qualified to comment on how the SA teams are going. -Benaud's post about how "Dire" the Stormers were last night is a case in point, I am willing to bet money that he didnt watch the game or else he would have seen the watered down side WP sent to Durban:

Green denotes debut/greenhorns.
Red denotes regular substitutes.
Blue denotes Usual Starters.

15. Robert du Preez, 14. Johnny Kotze, 13. Huw Jones, 12. Jaco Taute, 11. Pat Howard, 10. Kurt Coleman, 9. Louis Schreuder, 8. Nizaam Carr (captain), 7. Michael Rhodes, 6. Sikhumbuzo Notshe, 5. Ruan Botha, 4. Jean Kleyn, 3. Vincent Koch, 2. Michael Willemse, 1. Oli Kebble

Substitutes: 16. Neil Rautenbach, 17. Ali Vermaak, 18. Wilco Louw, 19. Jan de Klerk, 20. Siya Kolisi, 21. Godlen Masimla, 22. Seabelo Senatla, 23. Kobus van Wyk

Pretty sure there's been more than a few mate. The South African sides have made up the numbers on many an occasion.
Allow me to demystify the log tally since the conference system was implemented(Unrelated: While I havnt tallied NZ's numbers, one can infer by the lack of points this season by both our conferences that they have had a stellar season):

Aus SA
52 45
47 42
36 38
22 34
19 26
176 185 - 2014

60 63
58 54
45 50
37 48
31 24
231 239 - 2013

58 66
58 59
35 59
32 38
27 25
210 247 - 2012

66 63
57 57
37 54
33 40
24 29
217 243 - 2011

With regards to you having to compete against other sporting codes, we have our own issues with quotas. When you consider that the vast majority of SA's population live in poverty, it really does even up the playing fields in terms of producing sportspeople of international quality.

Although NZ are undoubtedly the best in the world when it comes to Union, I would say that NZ are at a point of saturation in terms getting much better, where as if we could bring the 40m people out of the 3rd world here in SA we would be able to improve somewhat. Aus could get alot better too if their people chose Union.

That is all a lot of if's and but's so I digress - The reality is, that right now Aus is a clear 3rd in terms of conference competitiveness. Some of our friends may do well to at least watch the highlights packages before making unfounded claims about how the SA teams are going.
 

TahDan

Cyril Towers (30)
Lots of talk, no facts. You see the problem with most of the posters from the antipodes is that they do not watch the SA games, and I suppose given the times that the games at played at it is somewhat understandable. An unfortunate side effect however is that it gives you a warped sense of reality, I really believe that most posters dont even watch a 5 min highlights packe of the SA games, and yet they think that they are somehow qualified to comment on how the SA teams are going.


Wow, do you speak to everyone with the condescension and sanctimony of French waiter pretending not to understand English to an American tourist?

I watch plenty of the South African conference, because thanks to the wonders of modern technology I'm able to set my DVR to record and watch all the games at whatever time suits me. They're wonderful inventions, and I do suggest investing in one.

Aus SA
52 45
47 42
36 38
22 34
19 26
176 185 - 2014

60 63
58 54
45 50
37 48
31 24
231 239 - 2013

58 66
58 59
35 59
32 38
27 25
210 247 - 2012

66 63
57 57
37 54
33 40
24 29
217 243 - 2011

Well to be frank, if South Africa didn't do better on the whole than Australia more often than not, you ought to be worried, but even still those are pretty bloody close numbers over all. One of the worst results we had from that list was in 2011 and even that averaged out to about 1 less win per side, but even then in that year the Reds won the comp, the Wallabies won the Tri Nations and the Wallabies knocked South Africa out of the world cup, and I'd wager more people remember those results than South Africa's Super Rugby aggregates.

How's that for a fact? ;-) .

Also, speaking of facts, if we back peddle to 2010, in what was supposedly a fairer system that avoided the benefits of the "weak conference" Australia scored more on aggregate than South Africa despite having one less team with which to accrue points, with South Africa's 5 teams scoring a total of 155 points to the 160 Australia's 4 teams racked up.

With regards to you having to compete against other sporting codes, we have our own issues with quotas. When you consider that the vast majority of SA's population live in poverty, it really does even up the playing fields in terms of producing sportspeople of international quality.

This is frankly a rather paper thin comparison to the challenges faced by Australian rugby. You have quotas? Oh poor you... so you have to select a few coloured players? Terrible challenge that when you have a long standing fully professional national tournament underneath Super Rugby where you can develop them...

As for poverty, well even taking that into account the market size for Rugby in the republic is considerably larger than either Australia's or NZ's because at 53 million South Africa's total population is a little over double Australia's. Now, poverty is undoubtedly a problem, but with a middle class of among just the black population of over 4 million and a reasonably well off white population of around 5 million, you have a market for Rugby of comparable size to either the AFL or NRL in Australia.

By comparison, the numbers for Union here are wedged under the NRL territories, meaning Union really just gets a minor share of what is left after rugby league. That's why Rugby has had such a hard time establishing a national competition here that would be analogous to the NPC or Currie Cup.

So basically underneath Super Rugby our feeder teams until last year have been semi professional at best, a fact which heavily affects depth.

Now, I know looking from afar in total ignorance of the Australian sporting landscape it might look like Rugby is right up there here, but in reality from a TV dollars standpoint Rugby makes less money than the NRL and AFL by a very very long way, and is in fact now losing to soccer as well.

Now, let me make it clear, I never said we were better than South Africa - I was merely having a go at the sentiment of your post, which reflects the tendency of so many South Africans to dump on our rugby sides. Frankly it comes across as pretty ignorant given how many teams from your side make up the numbers too and the fact that the sport is in a VASTLY stronger position in your country than ours.

So yeah, "quotas" - cry me a river. I fucking wish our biggest challenge was having to select a team that wasn't excessively white.
 

PiXeL_Ninja

Bill Watson (15)
TahDan threw a line out there and you well and truly took the bait! You are not going to win a AUS vs SA debate on an Australian Rugby forum.

Suggest we all move on and discuss the game in question.

Doesnt a debate require facts from both sides? Or is it a popularity contest to to agree on who they think is the best via community agreement, which is not really actually based on anything. Anyways thats my last post on the matter. I'll let them keep wearing those emperors clothes.

Having said all that, watch the Brumbies roll the Stormers at home :confused:
 
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