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Sydney Subbies 2017

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Seagull Butler

Chris McKivat (8)
1. It overcomes the challenges of travelling around Sydney.
.

Every-time I see this I worry about the mental weakness of people who can't handle an hours travel. Country rugby would be dead if everyone had this attitude.

And before anyone gives me shit about Hunters Hill being central, I live in Penrith and travel to Boronia Park 2/3 times a week.
 

The Phantom Menace

Frank Row (1)
Every-time I see this I worry about the mental weakness of people who can't handle an hours travel. Country rugby would be dead if everyone had this attitude.


An hours travel? Might be easy driving 30 mins to go from Hunters Hill but try driving from Richmond to Newport, Oatley to Rouse Hill or Mosman to Blue Mountains on a Saturday with school sport traffic. Lets open our eyes people.
 

Nine or Ten

Frank Row (1)
Without airing all the dirty laundry: yes, money.



The early years was payments to a few players - no harm there as the comp wasn't amateur - and a bit of dominance followed. Jeffrey Cups in 2007 and 2009 (lost 2008 final in the mud against Quins, runners-up in 2010 against St George).



Noice Cup in 2010 (runners up in 2007 and 2008, finalists in 2009). The Second Grade team that year featured some ex-Grade players who just wanted a run with the boys. So they didn't train, just turned up from Mounty County whenever they felt like it to have fun. We feted those blokes, and they wholesale fucked off after they'd drunk the beer and eaten the food.



In 2011 it was a major slump as we tried to get up to 4th Division, and of the 40 blokes who played on GF day 2010, 25 left the club in some form. The loyalty was either to the cash or their bros - not the club.



The only notable event since then was 2014 appearance in the finals in Third Grade - mainly because nobody wanted to play higher. Eliminated by Quins in the first week.



The recent fightbacks in 2015 and 2016, including some likely finals positions last year, were probably due to money. We can't prove anything, but think the First Grade Coach was paying players under the table.



Certainly, most of the onfield talent (who were directly involved in the brawl) got jobs via the coach directly, and some even turned up to the games in taxis. Draw from that what you will.











Yep. That's what I used to think, too. I think that theory is brought down by several things:



1) The lack of cultural development in the club because of the focus on success. So players out who could develop, or contribute to the social fabric of the club, felt alienated, and left.



2) That is probably more important that the fact the NSWRU can't provide any sort of profile out here - the only players that would probably be recognised at training are your Israel Folaus and Will Skeltons. And when I asked for them via the portal, I didn't even get a reply.



3) Shitloads of league in the area for good players.



4) The schools who produce rugby players generally have an alignment already. I've contacted a few places like William Clarke College and Rouse Hill Anglican (who have no rugby program but would like one), and have received zero in return. Not even a "thanks but no thanks"



5) Distinct lack of available bodies to volunteer - particularly as we have no history, we have no old boys. Generally speaking, older people can't afford to live in the area or are simply better off moving away. The few guys I'd like to have volunteering want to play, and NEED to play due to our shortfall in numbers.



6) Saturday work hours kill off a lot of interest, particularly away games.



7) General demographic is young families so guys who might otherwise be interested, can't afford to get injured.



8) For the South African audience I've tried to target, I reckon I'm between generations - either guys in their 40s who are too old, or guys in their teens who are too young, for now. Maybe that will change.













Hills Council give precisely zero fucks about anyone - unless they've got a shit-ton of cash. When I tell some other teams we have to buy our own goal posts, or mark our own ground (or pay Council for the privilege) they're gobsmacked. Others are sympathetic, having been there.



I may have mentioned we share our ground with soccer - Kellyville United FC started in October 2015 and have ~800 paid up members at this point. Around ?10? senior teams and then juniors. They pay something like $350 or $390 each per annum.



How do I go to Council and demand something better for rugby when I've got 60 guys signed up (around 30 guys paid up) and soccer are collecting a quarter million in registration fees alone?



Next year I'll be saving some money only having one training night (not a fucking Wednesday either, because fucking state of origin is adored by these people for reasons I don't understand), and probably only one game per week.



So Council will be giving even more time to soccer to fuck up my pitch.


You also have a reasonable size Rugby Club that is over 50 years old in the area and caters for 4years olds to seniors
 

The Phantom Menace

Frank Row (1)
Every-time I see this I worry about the mental weakness of people who can't handle an hours travel. Country rugby would be dead if everyone had this attitude.

And before anyone gives me shit about Hunters Hill being central, I live in Penrith and travel to Boronia Park 2/3 times a week.


Do you work till 12.30pm on a Saturday and then have to travel from the Riff to HH's or Daceyville for a 2.00pm game?
 

Pfitzy

David Wilson (68)
All I can do is get my recruitment drive in order earlier in the year, to try and get the juniors on board before the other codes snaffle them (I'm cheaper than everyone there).

From speaking to other clubs, and even the ref on the weekend, its pretty clear that people just have less time for rugby. Once upon a time the boys would be up for everything, but now there are weekends away, weddings (in winter FFS!) and other shit that is more important.

There is also the issue of coaching - had three coaches as of Round 1.

Round 1: Second Grade coach breaks his shoulder blade playing Second Grade
A few weeks later, the First Grade coach's wife got seriously ill, so he had to step aside.

So we promoted the Third Grade coach to be First Grade coach. He's very good, but had to head to the USA for a month after the mid-year break.

It has not been a year of brilliant circumstances.
 

Skinny Minny

Chris McKivat (8)
Meh.... everyone has to travel to play. That's a sacrifice that guys make from shute to 6th div.

Guys from the emus travelling all over syd to play 3rd grade and lose 100 - blot every week

Every club have blokes who work... even shute players work Saturdays

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
 

Heavyd

Vay Wilson (31)
Every-time I see this I worry about the mental weakness of people who can't handle an hours travel. Country rugby would be dead if everyone had this attitude.

And before anyone gives me shit about Hunters Hill being central, I live in Penrith and travel to Boronia Park 2/3 times a week.


Acknowledge it may not be an issue for you Seagull but it is often sited as a significant issue by others around why players don't commit.Just throwing it out there again as I think there is merit in a Geographical Conference. The alternative is the status quo and that is dying clubs, plumeting player numbers and a dying game.
 

Seagull Butler

Chris McKivat (8)
Acknowledge it may not be an issue for you Seagull but it is often sited as a significant issue by others around why players don't commit.Just throwing it out there again as I think there is merit in a Geographical Conference. The alternative is the status quo and that is dying clubs, plumeting player numbers and a dying game.


I don't think my response takes away from the validity of your point Heavyd, or the level of merit in it.

Maybe the idea however would be better suited to lower divisions only? (I haven't played for the clubs so feel free to belt me if I am wrong). i.e. you still have div 1, 2, 3 but 4, 5, 6 combine into an East/West comp of 12 teams each? That way for stronger clubs like Colleagues and Mosman who seem to have players out the wazoo, the still have a competition which allows for everyone to have games each weekend?
 

Heavyd

Vay Wilson (31)
Meh.. everyone has to travel to play. That's a sacrifice that guys make from shute to 6th div.

Guys from the emus travelling all over syd to play 3rd grade and lose 100 - blot every week

Every club have blokes who work. even shute players work Saturdays

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


Take a look at the Subbies annual report to look at the decline in clubs and players over the last 5 years.

Year Players Clubs Teams
2012 7024 56 207
2016 5614 49 170

I agree, subbies is working awesomely and why would you even consider something new when I'm happy just cross our fingers that it all works out.
 

Pfitzy

David Wilson (68)
Every-time I see this I worry about the mental weakness of people who can't handle an hours travel. Country rugby would be dead if everyone had this attitude.


Country people are more accustomed to traveling long distances. I know because I grew up out near Moree :)

But further: a rugby or other sporting club is a sense of community. That's something we don't have in a lot of clubs in Sydney. People have their own communities or social groups more and more. So they don't live and breathe the game days like country people do, I think e.g. the people going to church on a Saturday night aren't coming back to the pub.

The work thing is also massive - I've got guys who either come from or go to work on game day. No time for socialising.
 

Seagull Butler

Chris McKivat (8)
Country people are more accustomed to traveling long distances. I know because I grew up out near Moree :)

But further: a rugby or other sporting club is a sense of community. That's something we don't have in a lot of clubs in Sydney. People have their own communities or social groups more and more. So they don't live and breathe the game days like country people do, I think e.g. the people going to church on a Saturday night aren't coming back to the pub.

The work thing is also massive - I've got guys who either come from or go to work on game day. No time for socialising.


Moree was actually one of the clubs I thought about when thinking about the travelling distance - two teams in Tamworth, another in Scone etc.

Mind you if you were around the bulls for their long winning streak I reckon it'd put more salt in the wound for your issues this year.
 

Skinny Minny

Chris McKivat (8)
Take a look at the Subbies annual report to look at the decline in clubs and players over the last 5 years.

Year Players Clubs Teams
2012 7024 56 207
2016 5614 49 170

I agree, subbies is working awesomely and why would you even consider something new when I'm happy just cross our fingers that it all works out.
I agree that the numbers are shit but I think there are plenty of bigger things wrong with rugby in Sydney than having to travel for games

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
 

Pfitzy

David Wilson (68)
Moree was actually one of the clubs I thought about when thinking about the travelling distance - two teams in Tamworth, another in Scone etc.

Mind you if you were around the bulls for their long winning streak I reckon it'd put more salt in the wound for your issues this year.


I was not - that was after I left the area. Went to high school with the Barwick boys who were part of that team, after they returned to the region after boarding school in Brisvegas.

The family farm was nearly an hour's drive from Moree's ground, too.
 

Hurlo

Allen Oxlade (6)
I Agree. Why Cater For The Minority?

GENERALLY I Find Those Who Want To Play Find A Way To Do So.
 

Skinny Minny

Chris McKivat (8)
And those other bigger things are?
North Shore privilege
Lack of support
Paying for the ARU
NSWRU lack of involvement in schools
ARU forgetting the west 20 years ago
No super rugby on free to air

Shall I continue?

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bundaddy

Peter Burge (5)
Jealously mainly.. oh and the fact that I'm a keyboard warrior/bully

I'm also desperately seeking admiration from other internet users that I don't know, by continually harping on about a slightly amusing remark I made in a previous post, poking fun at you referencing the fence at Tantallon being one of the reasons your club is so "successful".



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Maybe my post was misinterpreted but I do think that people like to play at nice grounds with fences and grandstands.
 
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