• Welcome to the Green and Gold Rugby forums. As you can see we've upgraded the forums to new software. Your old logon details should work, just click the 'Login' button in the top right.

Sydney Subbies 2019

Ozzie Bob

Ted Thorn (20)
From my point of view it all depends on what you want from your rugby competition.

If clubs want to spend cash to create teams then let them create their own comp.

As many people on here have stated the guy who slogs it out in 3rd grade, backs up for 2's and cooks the bbq during 1st grade is the lifeblood of the club.

The paid star who rocks up for a warm up, complains about the physio and then plays 1st grade and doesn't stick around for the boat race............. How much does he contribute to the club???

I agree with people who say that the number of grades in each division needs looking at. People are pretty time poor these days, do they really want to travel from say Oately to Newport for a 3rd grade game at 12pm on a Saturday? Their whole Saturday lost to travel time and an angry misses when they get home!


I'll concede that Mosman, Colleagues and Petersham all run great rugby clubs. I agree Subbies aren't to blame for the decline in the competition. They're running on a shoestring budget. They aren't responsible for the change in working conditions and that if you work as a tradie there's every chance you will have to work. I do have a couple of issues with what you say though. easy to, as you say, 'take some responsibility for your own back yards' when your backyard is prime rugby union demographic with high socioeconomic status.

Anyone who thinks subbies rugby is 100% amateur is a fool. At the risk of starting a shit storm and only one example of many how does last years Kentwell Medallist, ex-New Zealand u20, now starting openside flanker for Eastern Suburbs 1st Grade end up at Petersham in the first place. As much as I love Sydney's inner west and the Lady Hampshire I'm sure this young fella could have found more attractive offers last year than 4 weeks free rent! It's amazing how the coach of one of the best Kentwell Cup teams in recent years, St Pats 2014 (stacked with paid players), is now in charge of a very strong Petersham team. HAC spring to mind as well to give my Petersham friends a break.

As you say the competition is better now St Pats, for arguments sake, (interchangeable for any number of clubs in the 'semi pro' days) aren't running out a team of mercenaries each week. Now perhaps I may have misinterpreted when you say the comps are 10 times better. I don't think anyone could reasonably argue the quality of subbies rugby is better now than say 2012-2013. It may well be 10x better because your club is winning and I can accept that but subbies rugby is not 10x better now than when it wasn't amateur. My opinion only and appreciate it won't be enjoyed by everyone.
 

uziel malifa

Bob McCowan (2)
Anyone get out to trial games this weekend?

yep was water person for both trial between oatley and mac uni and was some really good rugby a few of the gentlemen from both sides took it a bit to seriously we had to remind some of them it was a trial lol but all in all it was a fabulous day of rugby and fun
 

HeavyB

Alfred Walker (16)
was the footy_footy comment removed for some reason? He's absolutely bang on the money. There is still definitely a bit of a dodgy whiff around subbies rugby. St Pats 2013 Kentwell Cup Grand Final Man of the Match ends up being nominated for the Clark Medal last year at HAC? Maybe there is a perfectly innocent explanation for this, but as footy_footy points out there are many examples of these fishy coincidences.

As for clubs being "clueless and disorganised".. Thats very very easy to say when you are the only club for miles and miles. We try and operate in an area where there are more clubs than any other and there just aren't enough rugby players to go around any more. Look at both us and Saints. Even BOBs arent fielding 4th grade in div 2 I believe. Its insulting to the blokes who give up so much of their time to try and keep these clubs alive to say that.

Plus, by what measure is a club "clueless and disorganised"? It could be argued that the clubs who couldn't pull their fingers out and get their financial house in order (organise sufficient sponsorship etc) to pay players under "shamateurism" were "clueless and disorganised".

"Clueless and disorganised" is just a slap in the face to people who work really hard trying for the good of the game to keep some proud old clubs alive. They don't have to give up their time and I'd suggest if 1 or 2 of these types of people at a few clubs left, those clubs would certainly fold. A droopy-eyed armless baby could run Newport, their are literally zero clubs they're competing for players with, and if Newport are bitching and moaning about travel now, wait until clubs on the North Shore keep folding, because they are and will continue to do so. It started with smaller clubs like Terrey Hills and Roseville etc, us and Saints will be next....
 

Rugby Central

Charlie Fox (21)
Anyone get out to trial games this weekend?

Does anyone know how Blue Mountains vs Lindfield went. Newly promoted vs Centenary motivated. Must've been a cracker even for a trial. I'd hope for their sake that the Mountain Men prevailed easily.
 

footy_footy

Peter Burge (5)
was the footy_footy comment removed for some reason? He's absolutely bang on the money. There is still definitely a bit of a dodgy whiff around subbies rugby. St Pats 2013 Kentwell Cup Grand Final Man of the Match ends up being nominated for the Clark Medal last year at HAC? Maybe there is a perfectly innocent explanation for this, but as footy_footy points out there are many examples of these fishy coincidences.

As for clubs being "clueless and disorganised".. Thats very very easy to say when you are the only club for miles and miles. We try and operate in an area where there are more clubs than any other and there just aren't enough rugby players to go around any more. Look at both us and Saints. Even BOBs arent fielding 4th grade in div 2 I believe. Its insulting to the blokes who give up so much of their time to try and keep these clubs alive to say that.

Plus, by what measure is a club "clueless and disorganised"? It could be argued that the clubs who couldn't pull their fingers out and get their financial house in order (organise sufficient sponsorship etc) to pay players under "shamateurism" were "clueless and disorganised".

"Clueless and disorganised" is just a slap in the face to people who work really hard trying for the good of the game to keep some proud old clubs alive. They don't have to give up their time and I'd suggest if 1 or 2 of these types of people at a few clubs left, those clubs would certainly fold. A droopy-eyed armless baby could run Newport, their are literally zero clubs they're competing for players with, and if Newport are bitching and moaning about travel now, wait until clubs on the North Shore keep folding, because they are and will continue to do so. It started with smaller clubs like Terrey Hills and Roseville etc, us and Saints will be next..


No I took it down because I thought it may have been more trouble that it was worth. I do 100% standby what I say and should add that there are so many clubs out there doing great work that aren't Mosman, Colleagues and Petersham. Clubs that spring to mind are Epping and Hills that turn out 4 competitive grades and a colts week in week out. Host a great day of footy and are good guests. Same could be said for so many clubs. My experience has been only in Div 1 and Div 2 so I'm unsure exactly beyond that but know full well there's plenty of good footy been played outside Mosman and Woolahra. Subbies is stuck between a rock and a hard place and constantly giving the usual suspects a pat on the back isn't going to make things any better.
 

HeavyB

Alfred Walker (16)
No I took it down because I thought it may have been more trouble that it was worth. I do 100% standby what I say and should add that there are so many clubs out there doing great work that aren't Mosman, Colleagues and Petersham. Clubs that spring to mind are Epping and Hills that turn out 4 competitive grades and a colts week in week out. Host a great day of footy and are good guests. Same could be said for so many clubs. My experience has been only in Div 1 and Div 2 so I'm unsure exactly beyond that but know full well there's plenty of good footy been played outside Mosman and Woolahra. Subbies is stuck between a rock and a hard place and constantly giving the usual suspects a pat on the back isn't going to make things any better.


Fair enough. I 100% agree though and you're right in that those 2 clubs in Epping and Hills are great examples. All I'd say is maybe in the case of those clubs with the exception of Beecroft they aren't in too overly saturated areas which helps. Absolutely credit where its due though, both of those clubs have built a great culture.
 

Pfitzy

David Wilson (68)
Does anyone know how Blue Mountains vs Lindfield went. Newly promoted vs Centenary motivated. Must've been a cracker even for a trial. I'd hope for their sake that the Mountain Men prevailed easily.


Blue Mountains were looking for another team to help fill a game, so their numbers must be OK
 

Pfitzy

David Wilson (68)
Fair enough. I 100% agree though and you're right in that those 2 clubs in Epping and Hills are great examples. All I'd say is maybe in the case of those clubs with the exception of Beecroft they aren't in too overly saturated areas which helps. Absolutely credit where its due though, both of those clubs have built a great culture.


Lot of hard work has gone into that, but at the same time, those two clubs have:

1) Long history
2) Their own facilities
3) Juniors program

Facilities are, of course, fed to a large degree by the history and Juniors - if you need an allocation from Council that is "every Saturday and Sunday" then chances are you can stick a flag down on a particular ground and go from there.

Starting a club with 1 or 2 Grades is pushing shit uphill on that front.
 

Prodigy

Syd Malcolm (24)
Fair enough. I 100% agree though and you're right in that those 2 clubs in Epping and Hills are great examples. All I'd say is maybe in the case of those clubs with the exception of Beecroft they aren't in too overly saturated areas which helps. Absolutely credit where its due though, both of those clubs have built a great culture.
Gotta disagree. Epping faces these clubs in the race for local players: MAC uni, Beecroft, Old Ognatiansand of course, Eastwood. Every other year, Dundas Valley pops up. And that’s just of the top of my head.
 

Prodigy

Syd Malcolm (24)
Lot of hard work has gone into that, but at the same time, those two clubs have:

1) Long history
2) Their own facilities
3) Juniors program

Facilities are, of course, fed to a large degree by the history and Juniors - if you need an allocation from Council that is "every Saturday and Sunday" then chances are you can stick a flag down on a particular ground and go from there.

Starting a club with 1 or 2 Grades is pushing shit uphill on that front.

No juniors at a Epping anymore Pfitzy. They left a few years back to merge with Hillview and become Central Eastwood. They prefer to pretend they are aligned to Eastwood.
 

Pfitzy

David Wilson (68)
No juniors at a Epping anymore Pfitzy. They left a few years back to merge with Hillview and become Central Eastwood. They prefer to pretend they are aligned to Eastwood.


That sucks - but the point stands: there were juniors.

Will be interesting to see if the loss of direct alignment affects the club longer term EDIT: or if the general strength of that part of Sydney continues to keep the club bouyant.
 

Rugby Central

Charlie Fox (21)
Gotta disagree. Epping faces these clubs in the race for local players: MAC uni, Beecroft, Old Ognatiansand of course, Eastwood. Every other year, Dundas Valley pops up. And that’s just of the top of my head.


Epping also has the significant issue of changing demographics. It's just not the rugby heartland it used to be.

On the flip side, Eastwood's impending departure could be a golden opportunity. It could seem a little odd trying to maintain an alignment to a club no longer in the area when there is a senior club right there. I don't know the politics of the situation (there usually is between senior and junior clubs) but maybe there's something to build on. Hope there is anyway.
 

Pfitzy

David Wilson (68)
Epping also has the significant issue of changing demographics. It's just not the rugby heartland it used to be.

Describes the whole lower north shore, really.


On the flip side, Eastwood's impending departure


Which I still find bizarre in a lot of ways. I was reading this statement:

https://eastwoodrugby.com.au/2018/12/22/understanding-the-future-by-knowing-the-past/

FFS what a pack of whiners. "WE FUCKED UP AND NOW THE GOVERNING BODY WON'T HELP US BECAUSE THEY FUCKED UP TOO! WAAAAAAH!"

They've got no money so they're going to sell up, move, and maybe make the same mistakes? Great.
 

Nath

Bill Watson (15)
From that link:

The factors why have been well canvassed – this was a time of great stress for many small clubs all over the state – FBT, RBT, and pokies in pubs cut their knees out from under them.

RBT? Is he seriously complaining about breath testing hurting the clubs bottom line? Or does RBT mean something else?
 

Rumour Ronald

Herbert Moran (7)
Rumour Ron Hubbard here with the science behind Scienceology....

The grapevine suggests that Balmain are sending out the SOS to former players to fill the grades. Concerns about bring well beaten in all grades in their home trial last weekend.

Blueys feeling very confident in div1 after stellar 2018. Big numbers at training including some very handy new faces. Telling stories that they aren't too concerned about the travel.... "we've been doing it for years"
 
Top