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TRC2021 - All Blacks v Springboks, Oct 2, 2021

KiwiM

Dave Cowper (27)
The joys of us AB supporters huh? We have won the RC , Bled cup but we lose one test and we now seem to need to change the team, tactics etc etc. I not rubbishing what anyone says , just having a quiet chuckle that we lose a test as AB supporters a lot of us see the answer is we need to change everything. I agree we do tend to struggle against in the real tough physical confrontation now and then, but seem to recall winning the WC in '11 and '15 by playing similar to how we play now, I would argue that the problem is the skill factor is what has slipped a bit. I also tend to think we played well on Saturday (not great, but I doubt anyone but Boks would of beaten us), the Boks were better, and sometimes that is what happens, you have to look at how well other team plays and give them credit.
I would add it also shows that you need young fellas to learn to play under pressure , something a lot of them haven't had up until last couple of weeks.

The forward packs for the 2011 RWC and 2015 RWC AB teams are in a different stratosphere to the forward pack we have seen the last two tests.

The depth of the 2015 ABs was insane - i'd suggest every bench forward from the 2015 RWC final would start in the AB pack we've seen the last 2 games with the possible exception of Ben Franks (Franks, Mealamu, Faumuina, Vito, Cane).

Basically - this forward pack isn't a patch on packs from 2011/2015. Having said that, I do think the current pack can be improved if Samisoni starts at hooker, Moody and Ofa get their form back and you add back in Whitelock and Cane.
 

Dan54

Michael Lynagh (62)
The forward packs for the 2011 RWC and 2015 RWC AB teams are in a different stratosphere to the forward pack we have seen the last two tests.

The depth of the 2015 ABs was insane - i'd suggest every bench forward from the 2015 RWC final would start in the AB pack we've seen the last 2 games with the possible exception of Ben Franks (Franks, Mealamu, Faumuina, Vito, Cane).

Basically - this forward pack isn't a patch on packs from 2011/2015. Having said that, I do think the current pack can be improved if Samisoni starts at hooker, Moody and Ofa get their form back and you add back in Whitelock and Cane.
Yep, I don't disagree how good those packs were, but I just can't panic over a loss etc. I recall in 2011 when we lost 2 tests in a row going into WC, to Boks and Wallabies, and we were being written off by a lot of supporters. We look a different pack with Whitelock and Cane back, though that not why we lost, Boks just deserve credit for playing so well. Hell I thought we lost a lot of grunt in pack when we lost ScoBar on Sat, but that's how it is. I think they may even revisit Akira, who is struggling against more physical teams to, but even he I not writing off just yet.
 

Blue

Andrew Slack (58)
What a great game with a surprisingly good atmosphere.

Boks deserved winners.

ABs once again struggle to adapt to Boks.

The whole forward pack aside from Savea (and to some extend Scott Barrett) was really poor. Samisoni needs to start at hooker.

Really not a fan of the midfield either. Need the ability to run direct and neither can.

A real lack of ball runners in the team - in the pack it's basically Ardie by himself as Akira in these Boks games has been bullied.

Guys like Havili and Akira look a million bucks in an open game but in a tight contest they get exposed. ABs still looking for their long term 6 and 12.

Aside from Blackadder the bench was really poor. The plan to have DMac on the bench backfired. At the end of the game ABs had a whole bunch of smaller backs who don't run straight (Dmac, Richie, Havili, Reece etc).

The passive defence combined with an inability to stay onside was very frustrating - the defence coach Scott McLeod has been weak since he took over in 2017 and just keeps getting a gig.

Jordie sensational. What a pair of test matches by him.
Kirwan summed it up on Monday Havili is the kind of player who needs space. He is really good off lineout attack ball. They didn't have that against us so he was very limited,
 

Jeffrey

Stan Wickham (3)
Yep, I don't disagree how good those packs were, but I just can't panic over a loss etc. I recall in 2011 when we lost 2 tests in a row going into WC, to Boks and Wallabies, and we were being written off by a lot of supporters. We look a different pack with Whitelock and Cane back, though that not why we lost, Boks just deserve credit for playing so well. Hell I thought we lost a lot of grunt in pack when we lost ScoBar on Sat, but that's how it is. I think they may even revisit Akira, who is struggling against more physical teams to, but even he I not writing off just yet.

It's incredibly annoying to associate criticism with "panicking", or being "written off" in 2011. I think we can all remember the context in 2011. At that time we were without a WC for 24 years, playing at home, pressure mounting.

I'm not sure why AB fans are so sensitive to some negativity.
 

Dan54

Michael Lynagh (62)
It's incredibly annoying to associate criticism with "panicking", or being "written off" in 2011. I think we can all remember the context in 2011. At that time we were without a WC for 24 years, playing at home, pressure mounting.

I'm not sure why AB fans are so sensitive to some negativity.
I think when posting no worries about pointing out what can do with improvement, I never seen a rugby team ever that can't improve, I think they need to improve things too, just I try to recognise the positives as well.
I think Akira Ioane is a case in point of what I mean, asked how he was being handled so that has game improved, the reply from AB coaches was we pointed out what he does well and went from there.
Same as team, I agree with most of what you posted, but just found there was no regonition that there was any good stuff, and to read it seemed we only lost to the Boks because we were poor, (I didn't think we were) and I felt it wasn't giving Boks credit for how good they were.
It's what I read in a lot of forums, if the ABs were that poor how did they win the RC , Bled cup etc?
I just think it sounds as though at times we expect ABs to always win, and I think it disrespects other teams.
 

Derpus

Rod McCall (65)
Getting out muscled by the Boks will happen to everyone from time to time. I actually agree with Dan (gross). There's very little to be concerned about. Still won the RC at a canter.
 

Blue

Andrew Slack (58)
I think when posting no worries about pointing out what can do with improvement, I never seen a rugby team ever that can't improve, I think they need to improve things too, just I try to recognise the positives as well.
I think Akira Ioane is a case in point of what I mean, asked how he was being handled so that has game improved, the reply from AB coaches was we pointed out what he does well and went from there.
Same as team, I agree with most of what you posted, but just found there was no regonition that there was any good stuff, and to read it seemed we only lost to the Boks because we were poor, (I didn't think we were) and I felt it wasn't giving Boks credit for how good they were.
It's what I read in a lot of forums, if the ABs were that poor how did they win the RC , Bled cup etc?
I just think it sounds as though at times we expect ABs to always win, and I think it disrespects other teams.
Kerzakkertly.

I think it is a case that a lot of Kiwi supporters simply cannot stand the thought of losing and have grown so accustomed to winning that when you guys lose it cannot possibly be that you were outplayed / outplanned! Surely not!

Certainly, if you read other forums you would think there is a crisis. There is none. Zilch.

You need to work out your back row balance (I love Akira as a player but he is NOT the right blindside against us or the English), shore up the lineout (no doubt you missed that big bearded knob from Canterbury), fix your breakdown technique against us and the Poms (more bodies - more of the time.)

You need play the right midfield for the opposition. Havili is a million dollars in space. He is not the same player when there is none. Does not have the flexibility in his game. Man you miss the other mulleted c*nt from Canterbury. A very lot.
 

Dan54

Michael Lynagh (62)
Kerzakkertly.

I think it is a case that a lot of Kiwi supporters simply cannot stand the thought of losing and have grown so accustomed to winning that when you guys lose it cannot possibly be that you were outplayed / outplanned! Surely not!

Certainly, if you read other forums you would think there is a crisis. There is none. Zilch.

You need to work out your back row balance (I love Akira as a player but he is NOT the right blindside against us or the English), shore up the lineout (no doubt you missed that big bearded knob from Canterbury), fix your breakdown technique against us and the Poms (more bodies - more of the time.)

You need play the right midfield for the opposition. Havili is a million dollars in space. He is not the same player when there is none. Does not have the flexibility in his game. Man you miss the other mulleted c*nt from Canterbury. A very lot.
Unfortunately AB supporters are not alone in our team not being beaten by teams playing well, but regardless I am happy to call out when ABs don't play well, but I just think in this case they actually played well, but were outplayed.
I actually don't hink there very many AB supporters who don't give credit to opposition, by far the majority do. Same as Bok supporters who can be found on forums with excusews etc, have a look at this one when Wallabies lose often comes with ok we lost but were unlucky etc etc or ABs etc always get the breaks from ref.
We have to remember most rugby forums are inhabitated by a tiny number of supporters (what there would be 20-30 at most in here), and tend to be negative for some reason. IWhy I xall some posters out at times. I actually haven't sploken to anyone here in NZ that thought it was anything but a great performance by the Boks. Mind you that comes with a caveat, of all the people I know from rugby (and there a shit load) I only one yjay cpmes into a forum, so I tend to get my opinions from either the right or wrong places I suppose ;) :p
 

Derpus

Rod McCall (65)
Unfortunately AB supporters are not alone in our team not being beaten by teams playing well, but regardless I am happy to call out when ABs don't play well, but I just think in this case they actually played well, but were outplayed.
I actually don't hink there very many AB supporters who don't give credit to opposition, by far the majority do. Same as Bok supporters who can be found on forums with excusews etc, have a look at this one when Wallabies lose often comes with ok we lost but were unlucky etc etc or ABs etc always get the breaks from ref.
We have to remember most rugby forums are inhabitated by a tiny number of supporters (what there would be 20-30 at most in here), and tend to be negative for some reason. IWhy I xall some posters out at times. I actually haven't sploken to anyone here in NZ that thought it was anything but a great performance by the Boks. Mind you that comes with a caveat, of all the people I know from rugby (and there a shit load) I only one yjay cpmes into a forum, so I tend to get my opinions from either the right or wrong places I suppose ;) :p
And we are right back to spouting nonsense.

People slag the Wallabies off more here than anywhere else, particularly when they play shit.
 

Dan54

Michael Lynagh (62)
And we are right back to spouting nonsense.

People slag the Wallabies off more here than anywhere else, particularly when they play shit.
No Derps, you do, and many others do. But isn't that what I was saying? Not giving credit to how well the opposition plays!
So I reckon just let's not really rubbish teams we support and call them rubbish but perhaps give opposition credit!
Good of you to back up what I saying ;) :rolleyes::D
 
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