Two step passing scrumhalves

[fatprop]

Interesting article focussing on the Boks and scrum half play

http://www.rugby365.com/article/63468-scrumhalves-make-or-break

One of the ways for a scrumhalf to speed up his passing is by doing so immediately from the ground. When you see a scrumhalf running sideways before throwing the ball at his backs, you know he is destroying future possibilities for he has cannibalised the backs' space. Running sideways may be to bring pressure on himself but it also brings pressure onto those outside of him who now have to catch, deal with pressure and consider their further options.

There were two significant Tests - England vs Australia at Twickenham and Wales vs South Africa in Cardiff. We looked at passes and how many steps the scrumhalf made before passing. (We have not counted steps to avoid a hindrance.)South Africa's pass-step rate was enormous. It was 43 passes which took 74 steps.

The other three teams' scrumhalves made 153 passes with 64 steps, despite the appearance of Nick White for Australia in the second half who is a stepper.

 

[Viking]

interesting he pointed out Nic White as a stepper... certainly doesn't have that reputation in Aus, usually he provides quick service its the other aspects of his game that lets him down. Eg. kicking too much, no running game.

 

[Tex]

It's a horrible habit when the backline needs quick phase ball, but Genia has repeatedly shown that it can be effective when distributing short balls to his forwards on the gain line.

 

[Viking]

It's a horrible habit when the backline needs quick phase ball, but Genia has repeatedly shown that it can be effective when distributing short balls to his forwards on the gain line.

It certainly can be effective, For example if the half-back is bringing in defenders close to ruck, making them guess whether they about to go for a sniping run or not.. Genia's was also great at this.

His problem now is that his step looks like habit, he does it 90% of the time. It should only be used sparingly at the right times and certainly not when the back-line needs quick ball - which is most of the time.

Genia's step is also very slow and backwards, say compared to Nic white or Phipps who would take a small step sideways or forwards on occasion.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Would like to see more analysis of the other three half backs. In total they didn't step nearly as much as the SA scrummie, but my impression was that Phipps did in fact step quite a bit in the test against England, even though he would normally be expected to have the least number of steps. Probably a sign of tiredness afetr a particularly long and hard season.

I also don't think it's the end of the world if the half back does take the occasional steps before passing if he is looking for something different, eg a possible hole in the defensive line in close. One of the attributes that made Will Genia one of the best half backs going round a couple of years ago was his occasional sniping runs.

I believe too little sniping by the half back can be as detrimental to a team as too much, or stepping before passing on every occasion. It needs to be a balance but clearly in favour of fast ball to the backs, especially on phase play when the defensive line might not be set as it should. But variety should be the watch word. If the half back's play becomes predictable in that he passes from the ground on all occasions, it tends to put immense pressure on the ball receiver.

 

[fatprop]

I see it as a three part issue

Firstly, it is about the attacking options communicating to the 9 and being ready to receive the ball quickly ie working hard to be options

Secondly, it is about the 9 trusting that the units are ready to receive the ball quickly

Thirdly, the 9 only running when the pillar defenders start to jump the gun or aren't there

 

[Gillys_ghost]

Why is it only a problem now? looking at old footage, it looks like Genia has always done it, and should always do it if he is to replicate his 2011 - Lions Tour form.

 

[Viking]

Why is it only a problem now? looking at old footage, it looks like Genia has always done it, and should always do it if he is to replicate his 2011 - Lions Tour form.

I think it comes down to speed. Genia is slower now so it is much more noticeable. I remember him being very quick in 2011 so it was never much of an issue.

Also the amount of sniping runs might have something to do with, Genia's running isn't as much of a concern for defences as it use to be, meaning the opposition probably focus' more on the defensive line instead of the sniping runs at half-back. Previously the side-step may have caused them to second guess the run, but now they know not to worry.

 

[Braveheart81]

Why is it only a problem now? looking at old footage, it looks like Genia has always done it, and should always do it if he is to replicate his 2011 - Lions Tour form.

Is it the steps before passing that made him good or just every other aspect of his game including the fact that he managed to provide quick service even with the step(s)?

I don't think a player needs to take steps all or most of the time to be able to snipe when the situation is available. Doing everything at speed whether it is clearing the ball to the first receiver or having a run will always make it easier to take advantage of the defence.

The opportunities arise when the attack is beginning before the defensive line is properly set. It means defenders will be moving sideways or backwards when the halfback either starts running or makes their pass.

 

[Gillys_ghost]

so the problem isnt actually with the step at all, but rather the speed of genias delivery? I agree he certainly looks alot slower and seems to be playing with alot less enthusiasm.

 

[fatprop]

so the problem isnt actually with the step at all, but rather the speed of genias delivery? I agree he certainly looks alot slower and seems to be playing with alot less enthusiasm.

that is chicken and egg to me, Genia looked much better coming off the bench in the tests than in his first game vs the baa baa's

The new regime wants more effort and less re-setting and waiting by the nine

I do think it is a trust and rhythm thing

 

[Strewthcobber]

He had his knee reconstructed in September 2012. I reckon we're still seeing the after effects

 

[Gillys_ghost]

It might be the effects on the Knee Reconstruction, but he was the best scrumhalf in the world during the lions tour, so i'm not sure. The only thing that i think is certain is A, he has an attitude problem, and B, When in form, hes alone with Aaron Smith at the top of World Rugby Scrumhalves.

 

[Braveheart81]

It might be the effects on the Knee Reconstruction, but he was the best scrumhalf in the world during the lions tour, so i'm not sure. The only thing that i think is certain is A, he has an attitude problem, and B, When in form, hes alone with Aaron Smith at the top of World Rugby Scrumhalves.

I reckon he had one excellent test, one good test and was fairly average in the third test where we got smashed (along with most of the side).

He then struggled through the Rugby Championship before White was preferred to him for a couple of games.

I don't think Genia has produced consistently excellent form since before the Rugby World Cup in 2011.

 

[Viking]

so the problem isnt actually with the step at all, but rather the speed of genias delivery? I agree he certainly looks alot slower and seems to be playing with alot less enthusiasm.

To a degree yes. But I think the step is still a large contributor of the slow service. Along with other things like injury, attitude, form etc.

I think the main point with Genia is, which I believe Bob Dwyer pointed out in one of his articles is, Genia actually takes a whole step backwards.

Sideways wouldn't be as much of an issue as it can be used to keep opposition defences guessing but taking one backwards does absolutely nothing but give time for defences to set.

 

[mxyzptlk]

It'd be interesting to see any correlation with scrum half steps-to-passes to meters gained, line breaks, tackles behind the gain line, etc. I'm sure team analysts have stats on that sort of thing. Aaron Smith seems to have the fastest delivery with almost never a step -- straight off the floor and into the receiver's hands. Rhys Webb isn't quite that fast, but he tries to fire it off pretty low. Conor Murray gets about a half-step in with each pass.

Can't remember if it was England-New Zealand or England-South Africa, but in one of those games Stuart Barnes pointed out how many steps Danny Care was taking before he passed, and how that was giving the defense time to get in behind and tackle the receiver before any speed was built up. Once it ended up in an interception. After he pointed that out, scrum half steps became one of those things you couldn't not look for.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Stepping is a manifestation of lack of forward parity/dominance and accuracy in the clean out, IMO.
Oz half backs after the initial thrill of being picked soon work out that all the stray enemy bodies left lying on our side are impediments to passing from the ground and rather than commit obvious errors because of direct or implied interference from those bodies they try to clear the debris before passing.
Like most things: fix the pigs fix the problem.
That's why White is not considered a stepping half: he plays behind a S15 pack with parity or better.

 

[Braveheart81]

Stepping is a manifestation of lack of forward parity/dominance and accuracy in the clean out, IMO.
Oz half backs after the initial thrill of being picked soon work out that all the stray enemy bodies left lying on our side are impediments to passing from the ground and rather than commit obvious errors because of direct or implied interference from those bodies they try to clear the debris before passing.
Like most things: fix the pigs fix the problem.
That's why White is not considered a stepping half: he plays behind a S15 pack with parity or better.

We certainly suffered from that problem in one or two of the EOYT tests. I think it was the Ireland game where the Irish players were rolling out of the way but then making sure they were still impeding Phipps so he had to pass over the player.

It's hard to know how to fix that. The tackler only has to roll away from the ball. They don't then have to get out of the way completely in any specific period of time.

 

[Brumby Runner]

We certainly suffered from that problem in one or two of the EOYT tests. I think it was the Ireland game where the Irish players were rolling out of the way but then making sure they were still impeding Phipps so he had to pass over the player.

It's hard to know how to fix that. The tackler only has to roll away from the ball. They don't then have to get out of the way completely in any specific period of time.

But if they then impede the half back they should be pinged for off side, surely. But that's just another area that Refs don't seem to want to control.

 

[Braveheart81]

But if they then impede the half back they should be pinged for off side, surely. But that's just another area that Refs don't seem to want to control.

Is it against the laws though? They have to roll out of the way of the ball. They don't necessarily need to move further.

If we have really slow ruck ball they should obviously be gone by that point but if we're trying to play quickly, the player will most likely be there. It's hard to know how strategically the opposition is doing it but you can imagine that if it is very well orchestrated within a team, they know that the halfback can only pass off the ground and provide really quick ball in one direction.