Ukraine

[Slim 293]

Of course not. It is a vibrant democracy spreading it's freedom guided processes via it friends in places like Syria.

The irony here........

Syria? Where the country is being torn apart by foreign mercenaries and terrorist groups backed by the US and Gulf states?

 

[Slim 293]

http://www.fair.org/blog/2014/03/07/denying-the-far-right-role-in-the-ukrainian-revolution/

Denying the Far-Right Role in the Ukrainian Revolution

By Jim Naureckas

Some commentators on the Ukraine crisis seem so convinced that it must be a struggle between good guys and bad guys that they're willing to ignore evidence that there's anything problematic about their chosen side.


In the US press, this generally means whitewashing the opposition that overthrew the government of President Viktor Yanukovych, since Yanukovych had the support of official enemy Russia. To maintain a simple good vs. evil framework, the fact that Ukraine's neo-fascist movement had a significant role in that opposition–and in the new government that replaced Yanukovych–was downplayed or even outright denied.

.........

 

[Ruggo]

Of course not. It is a vibrant democracy spreading it's freedom guided processes via it friends in places like Syria.

Like the Yanks did in Iran with the Shar.

 

[Ruggo]

Russia is not the enemy....

Let's not pretend we're "saving" these countries....

Yep this is correct. The problem is Russia has Putin who just can't let go of the past. Russia is an important cog in the global community and the only problem is it currently has a difficult leader.

 

[Slim 293]

Like the Yanks did in Iran with the Shar.

Like the Yanks did in countless nations post WWII.........

 

[Ruggo]

In the Western world we are so brainwashed with goodies and badies and filled with such a sense of self rightousness.

We slant history to suit and fail to see how counterproductive the west can be.

 

[ChargerWA]

In the Western world we are so brainwashed with goodies and badies and filled with such a sense of self rightousness.

We slant history to suit and fail to see how counterproductive the west can be.

Your self loathing reaches new heights Ruggo.

You wrote a post slamming Australia recently, now it's the whole western civilisation that's rotten?

We all know that we are any thing near perfect as a country and civilisation, but there is no danger in having a little affection for your home side either. I think compared to eastern culture we are progressive and fair. Once again, I know we aren't perfect, but neither are we evil.

 

[Ruggo]

Your self loathing reaches new heights Ruggo.

You wrote a post slamming Australia recently, now it's the whole western civilisation that's rotten?

We all know that we are any thing near perfect as a country and civilisation, but there is no danger in having a little affection for your home side either. I think compared to eastern culture we are progressive and fair. Once again, I know we aren't perfect, but neither are we evil.

We all know we are anything near perfect but the foreign policy of the dominant Western powers is littered with the preaching's of the western way of life being something superior to the cultures of others. This isn't specifically about Australia.

This affection for for your home side notion isn't really worth a reply.

 

[ChargerWA]

but the foreign policy of the dominant Western powers is littered with the preaching's of the western way of life being something superior to the cultures of others.

I think anyone who had an honest look at the both would probably agree that it is.

You don't see genocide, culturally entrenched submission of women, exclusion of minorities from political process, gross rorting of political process and persecution of indigenous populations in modern western democracy.

 

[ChargerWA]

This affection for for your home side notion isn't really worth a reply.

And tell that to your grandfather and great grandfathers who fought in WW1 and WW2.

No one is advocating the gross right wing ideologies of Andrew Bolt or Glenn Beck and bygones should be allowed to be bygones, but it's not some horrible right wing ideology to support your country.

 

[Ruggo]

And tell that to your grandfather and great grandfathers who fought in WW1 and WW2.

No one is advocating the gross right wing ideologies of Andrew Bolt or Glenn Beck and bygones should be allowed to be bygones, but it's not some horrible right wing ideology to support your country.

Let's not forget my Mother who was a nurse in the Navy during the Vietnam war. Spent her time caring for young men in a repat hospital ripped apart in a war that was for what? Don't forget Dad who drew the card and was to be sent over only to be discharged for medical reasons.

All this conflict and we just learn nothing from it mate. Both the world wars were to be the wars to end all world wars but we still still carry on with conflict. I don't see goodies and badies mate, I just see conflict. Mate, we are so lucky and the best service we can do to the fallen and those who have sacrificed is to learn the lessons rather than repeat the mistakes. Why wasn't the Taliban so evil when the west was arming them to fight the soviets? Why wasn't Saddam so evil when the west was arming Irag to fight Iran? Now we have fought both in wars where they have used the artilary the West has supplied them to fire back upon us. Is there not a lesson to be learnt?

This is not so much about Australia because the trends are global.

 

[Gnostic]

I think anyone who had an honest look at the both would probably agree that it is.

You don't see genocide, culturally entrenched submission of women, exclusion of minorities from political process, gross rorting of political process and persecution of indigenous populations in modern western democracy.

Really??

On each point I can give you plenty of examples from the enlightened west.

I don't see one superior to the other, I see significant corruption and self interest at the expense of others in both.

 

[ChargerWA]

Oh yeah, yeah. Those progressive eastern cultures, putting us to shame eh?



Iraqi women protest against proposed Islamic law to permit child marriage

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-09/iraqi-women-protest-against-proposed-islamic-law/5308380

 

[ChargerWA]

Let's not forget my Mother who was a nurse in the Navy during the Vietnam war. Spent her time caring for young men in a repat hospital ripped apart in a war that was for what? Don't forget Dad who drew the card and was to be sent over only to be discharged for medical reasons.

All this conflict and we just learn nothing from it mate. Both the world wars were to be the wars to end all world wars but we still still carry on with conflict. I don't see goodies and badies mate, I just see conflict. Mate, we are so lucky and the best service we can do to the fallen and those who have sacrificed is to learn the lessons rather than repeat the mistakes. Why wasn't the Taliban so evil when the west was arming them to fight the soviets? Why wasn't Saddam so evil when the west was arming Irag to fight Iran? Now we have fought both in wars where they have used the artilary the West has supplied them to fire back upon us. Is there not a lesson to be learnt?

This is not so much about Australia because the trends are global.

Mate, I think we are arguing at cross purposes here. I was never advocating any more war. I'm a bit of a heartless bastard, I'd be happy to leave the rest of the world to themselves and let them work their own shit out. But when you see genocide etc, you can't do nothing.

But my point was that we can have some pride in how we have conducted ourselves over the last 100 years. Primarily our intentions have been good.

 

[boyo]

Goodies v baddies. FFS.

That'll learn 'em.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/sarah-palin-stop-putin-with-nukes-20140309-hvgrn.html

 

[USARugger]

Please don't even entertain that woman.

If someone did a psychoanalysis of the American far right over the past 4 years they would undoubtedly come away with a diagnosis of deeply ingrained schizophrenia.

It's all disgusting jockeying for power and is being done flagrantly now. It sickens me and the only common denominator is that the citizen (and our environment...<3 tropic cascades) loses.

I want to believe this country will be better off when the Baby Boomers start dying off en masse, but I have major reservations about how a generation raised on this swill will fill the void.

Anyway, I digress. Ukraine has fully mobilized their military. My thoughts and prayers go out not only to my own family out there but the entire nation. This in
no way will result in anything like WW1, but even localized war is a tragedy.

I can only hope that this peters out over the coming months and that a drunk Russian solider doesn't fire the shot that plunges Ukraine into full-blown war.

It's not a weird feeling when Putin is on the "right" side of things (Neo-fascist regime overthrowing democratically elected government in an area with a large ethnic Russian population, legal agreements for Russia to move 25,000 troops into Crimea when they want, precedent set by USA with establishment of Guantanamo Bay in Cuba all those years ago..). People of Crimea are going to suffer no matter what happens though. Even if Russia peacefully annexes Crimes the region will turn into a temporary third-world country overnight - their entire domestic infrastructure hinges on and is provided by Ukraine proper to the north.

 

[Slim 293]

Oh yeah, yeah. Those progressive eastern cultures, putting us to shame eh?


Iraqi women protest against proposed Islamic law to permit child marriage

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-09/iraqi-women-protest-against-proposed-islamic-law/5308380

Oh Charger, you must tell me more about these savages..........

 

[BPC]

Oh Charger, you must tell me more about these savages....

Is that Charlie Sheen? If so, it must be tiger's blood in the cup.

 

[No4918]

As Russia continues to move into Crimea the west are still full of empty threats of repercussions. Better outline them quick as things appear too far gone. We have the Russian military controlling barracks and the navy bloackading Ukraines, Ukranian TV stations have been replaced by one Russian ones. The referendum looks set to pass so in all but official terms it will be gone. Where does this leave the people of Crimea though? Russia is hardly going to rush in spending money on services provided by the Ukrainian gov who will in turn not want any money heading there as it will end up in the Kremlin.

Leaders are doing a good job of talking tough, can't see anything happening bar a few more jets for surveillance of the situation. If they are willing to let the atrocities in Syria pass then this situation with few lives currently at stake will be passed on as well.

 

[Slim 293]

They allowed the atrocities in Syria to occur by backing the wrong side, and thankfully Putin stepped in and prevented them from making the situation worse.........