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Wallabies 2020

Seb V

Tony Shaw (54)
We just tried that by running the ball out of our 22 against the best defence in world rugby - time to think rugby in a Kiwi way.


Or just change the perception that the "Australian way" is holding possession and running the ball. To me the "Australian way" is playing smart rugby and out-thinking our opposition, and out-skilling them. It's been a long time since that happened though.

I feel the rugby smarts of Australia died after Larkham left. (as a player - definitely not as a coach)
 

Slim 293

Nathan Sharpe (72)
White and Hooper don't get along. White dropped Hooper at the Brumbies and told him he was a boy among men. Considering Hooper has a giant 4 year contract that might come into play here.

Eh?

Hooper was a regular starter under White........... it led to him being a starter for the Wallabies that year.
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
Sorry mate, I'm not going to search through 100's of forum pages to find that post.

I can't think of any Aussie coaches that would have a successful CV behind them besides Eddie or Mckenzie but both aren't realistic options. I'm curious to know the other options.

Just please indulge an aside: I'd love to be sitting next to Link as he watched the end of Cheika's Wallaby career unfold over that final 80 minutes in Oita. I wonder what he would have been thinking.

I wonder if he wonders: what might have been for me if not for the Patston affair, the related back-biting machinations of Hooper, Beale and AAC, and the spineless micro-culture that pervaded Pulver's reign and the ARU board as a whole.

In so many ways, Link's seemingly total, irrevocable departure from Australian rugby was a tragic moment, one of great loss that resonates still.
 

Jagman

Trevor Allan (34)
Eh?

Hooper was a regular starter under White..... it led to him being a starter for the Wallabies that year.

Now I did some googling instead of going from memory. Perhaps their relationship isn't so bad but I doubt Hooper would have come to the Waratahs if White had not dropped him the first 3 games 2012 and told him he was a boy compared to South Africans, and according to the article below White contemplated playing him at srcum half.
https://www.rugby.com.au/news/2019/04/19/super-hooper-100th
 

Seb V

Tony Shaw (54)
Eh?

Hooper was a regular starter under White..... it led to him being a starter for the Wallabies that year.


To be fair, I think Colby Fainga was the first choice - but was injured which led to starting Hooper regularly.

Although, I do agree that I think it's a bit rubbish to think Hooper and J White had some falling out - first I've heard of it.
 

Seb V

Tony Shaw (54)
Now I did some googling instead of going from memory. Perhaps their relationship isn't so bad but I doubt Hooper would have come to the Waratahs if White had not dropped him the first 3 games 2012 and told him he was a boy compared to South Africans, and according to the article below White contemplated playing him at srcum half.
https://www.rugby.com.au/news/2019/04/19/super-hooper-100th


To be fair, I think he was a bit of a boy. He wasn't physical enough at the time (lacked strength into contact), he wasn't putting on those driving tackles back then. I recall Hooper heavily criticised when he played against the B & I Lions for this reason. (and probably why is was dropped for an ageing G.Smith)

Funny though, as he developed over a few seasons into a very strong and physical player.
 

Slim 293

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Now I did some googling instead of going from memory. Perhaps their relationship isn't so bad but I doubt Hooper would have come to the Waratahs if White had not dropped him the first 3 games 2012 and told him he was a boy compared to South Africans, and according to the article below White contemplated playing him at srcum half.
https://www.rugby.com.au/news/2019/04/19/super-hooper-100th

That sounds like a good motivational talk........
 

Slim 293

Nathan Sharpe (72)
To be fair, I think Colby Fainga was the first choice - but was injured which led to starting Hooper regularly.

Although, I do agree that I think it's a bit rubbish to think Hooper and J White had some falling out - first I've heard of it.


White started out with his bigger is best strategy for the first few rounds, and we fielded a backrow of Kimlin, Vaea and Mowen.

The Chiefs match being a big turning point for the likes of Hooper, and Fardy.........
 

Braveheart81

James Horwill (77)
Staff member
Now I did some googling instead of going from memory. Perhaps their relationship isn't so bad but I doubt Hooper would have come to the Waratahs if White had not dropped him the first 3 games 2012 and told him he was a boy compared to South Africans, and according to the article below White contemplated playing him at srcum half.
https://www.rugby.com.au/news/2019/04/19/super-hooper-100th


I think Hooper was always going to come to the Tahs following the retirement of Phil Waugh.
 

Lorenzo

Arch Winning (36)
Legendary Wallabies hooker Phil Kearns was a candidate for the chief executive role at RA when Raelene Castle was appointed to take over from Bill Pulver in December 2017.
In part of the discussion with Kafer and Gregan on Fox Sports, Kearns put his hand up to be part of a top to bottom review of rugby in Australia.

No. Just no. No more jobs for the fucking boys. Giving someone a couple hundred grand cos he played rugby before and seems like a good enough bloke is part of what got us where we are in the first place.
Phil Kearns has had thousands of opportunities to impress with his rugby nous and without fail, he uses those opportunities to demonstrate an absolute lack of it.
 

Finsbury Girl

Trevor Allan (34)
Just please indulge an aside: I'd love to be sitting next to Link as he watched the end of Cheika's Wallaby career unfold over that final 80 minutes in Oita. I wonder what he would have been thinking.



I wonder if he wonders: what might have been for me if not for the Patston affair, the related back-biting machinations of Hooper, Beale and AAC, and the spineless micro-culture that pervaded Pulver's reign and the ARU board as a whole.



In so many ways, Link's seemingly total, irrevocable departure from Australian rugby was a tragic moment, one of great loss that resonates still.


Absolutely gutless stuff from those highlighted especially. No surprise all were always Cheika regulars.

One of the most astute coaches of our time lost forever like tears in rain.
 

KOB1987

David Codey (61)
Well, if you wish to argue that way, factor in if you must some imagined lower w-l % of EJ in some imagined 'playing the ABs more often' scenario, I still believe that speculatively imputed % number would well exceed the w-l % outcomes of a Cheika. Maybe too you should in balanced, objective fairness compare that newly adjusted EJ % to one where the T2 teams are wholly or partially excluded from the w-l % calculation for Cheika's Wallaby history.

EJ has manifestly learnt, grown, 'matured' etc as an HC since leaving Aust. Fixing an England - up to an ~ 80% w-l outcome over 3+ years - an England that was in an absolute mess post RWC 2015 - is an unarguable major rugby HC achievement, whether or not some imagined AB allowance factor is thrown into the various outcome calculations.

Rennie's elite rugby record is objectively way, way inferior to this and EJ's generally over his whole career, whatever we think of the notion of Rennie taking over the Wallabies (which this post is not meant to be doggedly against).

Yeah, I wasn't comparing him with Cheika, and it wasn't a shot at you, I was genuinely curious. I've now done some research and since the 2015 RWC England have played the All Blacks the grand total of - once. For a 1 pt loss at Twickenham. If a comparison were in order I don't think it would be silly to strip out the games against NZ, considering the imbalance in the number of times Cheika's team had to face them v Eddie's. And I know Eddie would have superior figures, but the W-L ratios between the two would converge significantly.
 

The_Brown_Hornet

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
Or just change the perception that the "Australian way" is holding possession and running the ball. To me the "Australian way" is playing smart rugby and out-thinking our opposition, and out-skilling them. It's been a long time since that happened though.

I feel the rugby smarts of Australia died after Larkham left. (as a player - definitely not as a coach)


100% this. Aussie rugby used to be all about SMART footy, not just running the pill. I felt that the only plan Cheika's Wallabies had was to run it from everywhere (and via Izzy or Kerevi). The successful teams of the 80's, 90's and early 00's knew when to run and when to play field position.

I also feel that many of our players just take dumb options too. Chip kicking in your 22 is not smart.
 

cyclopath

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Staff member
100% this. Aussie rugby used to be all about SMART footy, not just running the pill. I felt that the only plan Cheika's Wallabies had was to run it from everywhere (and via Izzy or Kerevi). The successful teams of the 80's, 90's and early 00's knew when to run and when to play field position.

I also feel that many of our players just take dumb options too. Chip kicking in your 22 is not smart.
Regardless of demonstrably crappy coaching structures and strategies, how does a player reach International level and think this is a good idea???
 
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