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Wallabies 2020

Tex

Jim Lenehan (48)
The problem with Cheika's approach to playing a running 'exciting' brand of rugby as a means of securing broad public support is that it reflects the desires of us rusted-ons who'd get behind the Wallabies regardless, albeit with some grumbling.

My mates in Melbourne will tune into Wallaby tests without knowing a ruck from a maul. They don't care about the intricacies of strategy (to be fair, neither do I); they just want to see wins on the board and success against the Kiwis.
 

the baz

Alfred Walker (16)
I think the problem is greater than Cheika. Rugby has been in a hole since the o'neill second coming. Nothing from Australian rugby has changed, in the sense that there are still the same guys running the development and advanced coaching programs, hence why we have limited Australian coaches coming through the ranks. Get rid of these staff from Aus Rugby, increase the development officers, not just token part time ones, but full time, like there were back in the early 2000's. Get more people involved in the game - we are at an all time low in this department, and have a CEO and Boards, both NSWRU and ARU that has a greater understanding of the state of the game in this country. NSWRU should never have let Simon Cron get away, and in a couple of years he would have been the Wallabies coach for sure. For mine, Dave Rennie is a clear choice to take over Cheika.
 

Slim 293

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Taken from Tom Decent’s Twitter -

Second halves in last four England and Australia matches

2016: England win 24-5
2017: England win 24-6
2018: England win 24-6
2019: England win 23-7

It seems Eddie did his homework.........
 

Lorenzo

Arch Winning (36)
Whats so weird about all of this is that liiterally everyone is on board with 'exciting' rugby, not that I think cheika produced an awful lot of it.

We just don't want it attempted in our own 40.
 

Derpus

Rod McCall (65)
Whats so weird about all of this is that liiterally everyone is on board with 'exciting' rugby, not that I think cheika produced an awful lot of it.

We just don't want it attempted in our own 40.
The thing that really blows my mind is how we turn into 2015 Wales the second we get into the opp 22. At 16-17 on their line and we don't pass it further than 1 metre from the ruck once. Ridiculous.
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
The person we should be trying - v v hard - to get is Wayne Smith, if not as Wallaby HC (he has not done much HC-ing though), then as Head of Coaching Skills Development (the sort of 'now disappeared' role that Rod 'I was no good at coaching' Kafer was supposed to have undertaken in a fanfare announcement re same).
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
I wrote an article about it, but the 'we never do any homework' thing was also a huge factor, IMO.

In a long domestic season that approach makes a degree of sense. You are probably better off focussing on your own game rather than trying to change things up every week for 20 weeks. Opposition teams also don't have the time to analyse and adapt on a week to week basis.

But his steadfast refusal to alter this approach played a big role in his downfall. Playing a possession-based game is all well and good, but playing the SAME possession-based game every week is just madness.

The 'running it from your own 22' tactic became a bit of a lightning rod for criticism, not just because it's a high-risk tactic but because we did it every fkn time. Funnily enough we did exactly the same thing in the 2003 semi-final against NZ, but it worked because we had never before used that strategy. It caught NZ on the hop and we profited from that.

Maybe I'm repeating myself a bit, but I still can't quite get over how proud he was of not doing much opposition analysis or tactical work. Because he was such a good coach in many other aspects, and clearly an intelligent guy - how could he not see the flaws in this approach?
.

Because intelligence and 'passion' alone are not ever enough to lead well, he clearly suffered some crucial psychological flaws of a type that inhibit learning (internal and from others), constructive adaptation vs what you have previously done habitually, the acceptance of genuine responsibility, and the capacity to work without perceived threat with strong and able people above and below you. (Namely, on the positive flip side of these limits, what is commonly known as the attainment of psychological maturity.)

IMO, his personality - as we see it so vividly and it's been there for a good while on display - hides the deep insecurities and anxieties that create the counter-mask of arrogance, petulance, 'my way or the highway' type pig-headed unthinking dominance over others and over key decisions, the tendency to explosively and otherwise blame others for failure, and a general lack of emotional and intellectual flexibility.

There can be serious talent but when talent, deployed in senior, high-pressure leadership contexts, is distorted with certain key neuroses and self-destructive personality traits, the results obtained will never be optimal and the talent there is part-destroyed by the corrosive effects of the inner psychological limits and blockages.

This is often why seemingly very talented people that hide emotional damage can only rise to a certain level and no further. Their emotional (vs intellectual) constraints become overwhelmingly in the negative when pressure, exposure and larger stages arise.

Cheika's deep emotional flaws were sadly on display when, post QF loss Oita, he berated a perfectly polite media questioner for not considering his feelings, his emotional needs, his pain, his 'raw' state over other very reasonable lines of inquiry that Aust rugby stakeholders had a perfect right to ask over that result. This moment, in all its lonely and reality-distorting narcissism, was the final giveaway (not that we really needed it, the issues were all visibly there before).
 

Uh huh

Alfred Walker (16)
Given Channel 10 are our TV partners, it's in our interest to be providing them with watchable content.

With that in mind, who amongst us wouldn't watch 'The Masked Coach', where 8 top line coaches wear complex outfits and compete to win the Wallaby top job.

Hosted by Shaun Maloney and judged by Rod Macqueen, Tim Horan and Lindsay Lohan.
.

How about "The Coachelor", in which Raelene Castle goes on a series of increasingly awkward dates with a line-up of highly competitive and mildly brain-damaged ex-players a club coaches before eventually giving a visibly annoyed Eddie Jones her 'final waratah'. The series closes as they link arms and head off on an all-expenses paid trip to New Caledonia.
 

Seb V

Tony Shaw (54)
With Aus appearing to have a quite solid tight five and pants backs, Jake White maybe the sensible choice

Absolutely boring, dire but winning rugby


I think this is such a mis-conception of Jake White. There were some absolutely amazing performances of running rugby at his time at the Brumbies - the SA tour an example. The backline never looked so good - and McCabe was at 12, so it was performing better and we didn't even have the preferred 2 play-makers in the team.

I think there were 2-3 games which were complete kick-athons, but we had White and Mogg with such good boots so why not utilise them, if the opposition was going to play that game then we could too and we would win that battle.

Yes his time at the Boks was box kick and chase, but that suited the rugby laws at the time (which gave defending team an advantage with ruck law interpretations) - worked beautifully for them with Fourie De Preez box kicking perfectly and Habana effectively chasing.

I do expect a more diversifed brand of rugby from me this day and age, and with how he utilised the players at the Brumbies he did this to an extent.
 

fatprop

Jason Little (69)
Staff member
I think this is such a mis-conception of Jake White. There were some absolutely amazing performances of running rugby at his time at the Brumbies - the SA tour an example. The backline never looked so good - and McCabe was at 12, so it was performing better and we didn't even have the preferred 2 play-makers in the team.

I think there were 2-3 games which were complete kick-athons, but we had White and Mogg with such good boots so why not utilise them, if the opposition was going to play that game then we could too and we would win that battle.

Yes his time at the Boks was box kick and chase, but that suited the rugby laws at the time (which gave defending team an advantage with ruck law interpretations) - worked beautifully for them with Fourie De Preez box kicking perfectly and Habana effectively chasing.

I do expect a more diversifed brand of rugby from me this day and age, and with how he utilised the players at the Brumbies he did this to an extent.


I only remember the pain that was reinforced when Larkam took over, pretty dire (but effective) death maul rugby

Anything else was a variant from the norm
 

Spruce Moose

Fred Wood (13)
I don't think anyone can doubt Cheika's intelligence as he has been succesful both in his rugby coaching career and business career. However he does remind me more and more of Jose Mourinho of football fame, immediate effect on playing group by changing it up a little and motivating the team but by year 3 refuses to change tactics and starts pissing off/alienating select players within the group leads to poor results and sackings (although Cheika survived an extra 1.5 years of poor results without being sacked).

I can only assume the Larkham rumours are just the Old Boys club getting together and trying to put their support behind an Australian candidate. I think him or McKellar are probably the best Australian candidates, Thorn is probably a few years before getting even close to consideration.
 

Brumby Runner

Tim Horan (67)
Our exit plan is so frustrating. We don't have a left footer so we want to clear from the right side of the field. Other teams know that so every kick off goes deep to our left corner.

We then proceed to go a bunch of phases trying to transition it across field for a clearance. Along the way we either drop it (Allan Alaalatoa) or do a stupid dinky kick (Kurtley Beale) or something else stupid. It was pretty much a given that we gave points straight back to England after scoring them because of this.

I wonder how much more successful we'd be if we just hoofed the ball straight down the field as far as we could at the first decent opportunity. Obviously you create a risk letting the other side run it back at you but I can't believe it would be much worse than what we're experiencing with our current exits.

The glaringly obvious point under Cheika's lack of study of oppositions and wanting to play your own game is that it's all well and good if you're the best team in the world. You play the way you want and the opposition can't deal with it because you're better than them. We're not close to that though. Surely you have to play to keep yourself in the game and look for opportunities to play the way you want to.

The last issue is gifting the opposition tries. We gave away two freebies against England. The first by Pocock when the game was still a contest was a killer. Beale's was worse in terms of how bad an error but the game was well and truly gone by that point so it's a bit of a moot point. I don't think any top 10 sides gift tries quite so easily and as frequently as we do. How does it continue happening so often?

In so many games we set ourselves back a lot of points through silly errors. When you're an average side you just can't afford to do that and expect to win many games against decent teams.

BH I think there are two salient points (maybe more, but confined to Cheika).

First, it was his game plan. Keep the ball in hand and run it at every opportunity.

Then, his game plan was confirmed to him on the training paddock. On so many occasions when he discussed the inclusion of players who were being questioned, his response was that they had been training the house down, or words to that effect.

I think there was an element of delusion in the game plan, and it was camouflaged or reinforced by the performances on the training paddock rather than how players actually performed in games.
 

Brumby Runner

Tim Horan (67)
Any Kiwi we get is only here because they didn’t get the job they all want

Some we would consider are likely not even on the short list for the NZ job

We need to run a proper process, so as to not make the same mistakes again

Pretty sure we wont because it has already been run and won. Johnson didn’t come home for a short run or to do development.

He will be the holding position till Rennie arrives mid year before the first tests.

The interesting bit will be if Clyne and Castle survive their atrocious handling of the Folau affair

Might get untidy if the people Johnson&Rennie did their deal with are no longer. Clyne has form in getting Board politics wrong and Castle must be on thin ice.

The fun has not started yet

It's my understanding that Rennie's contract doesn't expire until August next year. If that's the case, he won't be here for any of the mid-year tests and by the time he arrives the Super season will also be done and dusted. 2020 will be another wasted year if the new coach, whomever, isn't free to take the reins straight away.
 

Spruce Moose

Fred Wood (13)
It's my understanding that Rennie's contract doesn't expire until August next year. If that's the case, he won't be here for any of the mid-year tests and by the time he arrives the Super season will also be done and dusted. 2020 will be another wasted year if the new coach, whomever, isn't free to take the reins straight away.


I think it will depend on his contract with Glasgow (buy out clause/leaving for a bigger job) and if RA are willing to buy him out of it. Glasgow's season finishes end of May so realistically he can join the playing group in early June were he to see out the season with the Warriors.

However if RA signs him would Glasgow want him to stay knowing that his head is probably focused on other things?
 

Seb V

Tony Shaw (54)
I don't think anyone can doubt Cheika's intelligence as he has been succesful both in his rugby coaching career and business career. However he does remind me more and more of Jose Mourinho of football fame, immediate effect on playing group by changing it up a little and motivating the team but by year 3 refuses to change tactics and starts pissing off/alienating select players within the group leads to poor results and sackings (although Cheika survived an extra 1.5 years of poor results without being sacked).

I can only assume the Larkham rumours are just the Old Boys club getting together and trying to put their support behind an Australian candidate. I think him or McKellar are probably the best Australian candidates, Thorn is probably a few years before getting even close to consideration.


Surely McKellar is a few years away from being considered. For me Thorne has shown nothing yet to even be considered - besides being a good player.
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
I think this is such a mis-conception of Jake White. There were some absolutely amazing performances of running rugby at his time at the Brumbies - the SA tour an example. The backline never looked so good - and McCabe was at 12, so it was performing better and we didn't even have the preferred 2 play-makers in the team.

I think there were 2-3 games which were complete kick-athons, but we had White and Mogg with such good boots so why not utilise them, if the opposition was going to play that game then we could too and we would win that battle.

Yes his time at the Boks was box kick and chase, but that suited the rugby laws at the time (which gave defending team an advantage with ruck law interpretations) - worked beautifully for them with Fourie De Preez box kicking perfectly and Habana effectively chasing.

I do expect a more diversifed brand of rugby from me this day and age, and with how he utilised the players at the Brumbies he did this to an extent.

You are so right.

It’s laughable that with the frightening mediocrity we have with coaching capabilities at, say, the Tahs and the Reds, we come in to mock Jake White who rapidly rebuilt the Brumbies from, then, also-rans to Super finals contender and then serious finals participants.

Right now, in the middle of yet another major Wallaby debacle, it’s no surprise our focus is on the national team. But let’s recall that we have an ever bigger crisis building via the pathetic competitive results of most of our Super teams.
 

Seb V

Tony Shaw (54)
You are so right.

It’s laughable that with the frightening mediocrity we have with coaching capabilities at, say, the Tahs and the Reds, we come in to mock Jake White who rapidly rebuilt the Brumbies from, then, also-rans to Super finals contender and then serious finals participants.

Right now, in the middle of yet another major Wallaby debacle, it’s no surprise our focus is on the national team. But let’s recall that we have an ever bigger crisis building via the pathetic competitive results of most of our Super teams.


Very true on the super xv teams failing to get results. Although I think the coaches next are mostly good:
Dan McKellar - doing well, hopefully builds on another good year
Thorne with a few years under his built would expect to start seeing results now.
Wessels - I do like him as coach, he is learning but seems to learn from his mistakes - hopefully a big year from him
Tahs - new coach, new results - hopefully.
 

Spruce Moose

Fred Wood (13)
Surely McKellar is a few years away from being considered. For me Thorne has shown nothing yet to even be considered - besides being a good player.


Definitely agree, think I was more hoping to show that we don't really have a realistic Australian coach that has a recent history of success unless I'm forgetting someone that is coaching overseas currently.
 
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