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Wallabies 2020

B

Bobby Sands

Guest
These guys were all Australian Schoolboys/under 20s stars.

They've stood out the whole way through. Unfortunately I don't think any of them have the raw talent to really shine.

I think Clark would have been much better but he gave the best years of his development to being a very good 7s player.

Did they stand out though?

I don't remember that.

For example; I remember Horne coming through, Sautia, Maddocks, Magnay, Kellaway, Placid etc.

I don't remember Newsome, Clark, etc. I watched Walton at schools level too against NZ.\

What ever happened to Jim Stewart?
 

Braveheart81

James Horwill (77)
Staff member
Did they stand out though?

I don't remember that.

For example; I remember Horne coming through, Sautia, Maddocks, Magnay, Kellaway, Placid etc.

I don't remember Newsome, Clark, etc. I watched Walton at schools level too against NZ.


They stood out to the extent that they were considered among the best players of their age group. Obviously that doesn't mean they're destined to be superstars. Half the guys who make our under 20s squad each year won't end up with much of a professional rugby career.

Clark played Australian Schoolboys in 2011 then signed with the 7s squad.

Newsome played one game of under 20s in 2015. I'm unsure if he made the final World Championship squad.

They weren't as heralded at those levels as some of those others above but in some ways have had better professional careers than several of them to this point.

Did Magnay stand out at that level because he got red carded in our first game of the World Championship and stuffed our tournament?

Is it surprising that someone like Rob Horne was more memorable as a schoolboys and under 20s star? He went on to play 30 odd tests for the Wallabies and go to 2 World Cups.
 

Braveheart81

James Horwill (77)
Staff member
For posterity, here's the 2011 Australian Schoolboys side that Cam Clark played in against New Zealand.

1 Pettowa Paraka The Southport School QLD
2 Maile Ngauamo Ipswich Grammar School QLD
3 Allan Allalatoa Newington College NSW
4 Curtis Browning (C) Brisbane State High School QLD
5 Michael Wells St Ignatius' College NSW
6 Will Miller The Scots College NSW
7 Mark Baldwin Newington College NSW
8 Sean McMahon St Joseph's College Nudgee QLD
9 Waldo Wessels Endeavour Sports High School NSW
10 Jack Debreczeni Trinity Grammar School NSW
11 Isaiah Mosese Aranmore College WA
12 Jim Stewart The Scots College NSW
13 Allan Faalavaau Dandenong High School VIC
14 Alex Northam Killarney Heights High School NSW
15 Cameron Clark Knox Grammar School NSW

16 Feleti Kaituu St Joseph's College Nudgee QLD
17 Faa'tausili Lafaaitele Victoria Park State High School QLD
18 Feao Fotuakai St Francis' College QLD
19 Tom Staniforth * Canberra Grammar School ACT
20 Manasa Rokosuka Marsden High School NSW
21 Scott Malolua Marist College Ashgrove QLD
22 Andrew Robinson St Mary McKillop School ACT
23 Jake McIntyre Alstonville High School NSW

I'd argue he's had a better professional career than two thirds of those players.
 
B

Bobby Sands

Guest
They stood out to the extent that they were considered among the best players of their age group. Obviously that doesn't mean they're destined to be superstars. Half the guys who make our under 20s squad each year won't end up with much of a professional rugby career.

Clark played Australian Schoolboys in 2011 then signed with the 7s squad.

Newsome played one game of under 20s in 2015. I'm unsure if he made the final World Championship squad.

They weren't as heralded at those levels as some of those others above but in some ways have had better professional careers than several of them to this point.

Did Magnay stand out at that level because he got red carded in our first game of the World Championship and stuffed our tournament?

Is it surprising that someone like Rob Horne was more memorable as a schoolboys and under 20s star? He went on to play 30 odd tests for the Wallabies and go to 2 World Cups.

I guess my question is this.

Are people in NSW valuing solid citizen people/players more highly in the ID verification process than out and out dynamic players? Is it safer to pick well-rounded, yet hard to define players - rather than shoot for an out and out winger or fullback for example?

I am not sure.

But NSW is big state, and I don't believe these are the best homegrown rugby backs that have come through in that time.
 

Braveheart81

James Horwill (77)
Staff member
I guess my question is this.

Are people in NSW valuing solid citizen people/players more highly in the ID verification process than out and out dynamic players? Is it safer to pick well-rounded, yet hard to define players - rather than shoot for an out and out winger or fullback for example?

I am not sure.

But NSW is big state, and I don't believe these are the best homegrown rugby backs that have come through in that time.


I think these guys were dynamic at that age relative to their counterparts.

If they're being picked as the best from NSW then also making national selection wouldn't that suggest that their selection for NSW was justified?

Is anyone else doing anything particularly different? Your assertion would suggest that Queensland for example are picking a different profile of player in those age groups that become better professionals or have higher ceilings. I'm not really sure that's supported by the outcomes.
 

wamberal

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
But NSW is big state, and I don't believe these are the best homegrown rugby backs that have come through in that time.


There are too many opportunities in the NRL in the Sydney area for our code to be able to compete for the best. Plus they can sign kids up at an earlier age than we can.
 

Rebels3

Jim Lenehan (48)
Did they stand out though?

I don't remember that.

For example; I remember Horne coming through, Sautia, Maddocks, Magnay, Kellaway, Placid etc.

I don't remember Newsome, Clark, etc. I watched Walton at schools level too against NZ.\

What ever happened to Jim Stewart?
Unfortunately Jim Stewart had to retire after a serious injury only a few games into his pro career. Serious neck injury from memory.
 

Up the Guts

Steve Williams (59)
But NSW is big state, and I don't believe these are the best homegrown rugby backs that have come through in that time.
Not sure what the situation is for you guys up north but our most dynamic schoolboy backs often go to or are already signed with League. For instance, this year and next we'll lose Joseph Suaalii, Tolu Koola, and Villiami Penisini. Those three are definitely not Alex Newsome style backs. Not sure there is much we can do about it unfortunately.

Edit: Wam beat me to it.
 

qwerty51

George Gregan (70)

Did you see some of the tries? Yeah I get it limited prep and all but the defence was absolutely non-existent at times. My point was more the attack only looked good because of poor defence than anything serious about 50 on them.
 
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Braveheart81

James Horwill (77)
Staff member
Not sure what the situation is for you guys up north but our most dynamic schoolboy backs often go to or are already signed with League. For instance, this year and next we'll lose Joseph Suaalii, Tolu Koola, and Villiami Penisini. Those three are definitely not Alex Newsome style backs. Not sure there is much we can do about it unfortunately.

Edit: Wam beat me to it.


An interesting exercise would be to compare the NSW Schoolboys team to the Qld Schoolboys team and look at how many are still playing rugby 1, 2 and 3 years later.

Looking through the last decade of Australian Schoolboys, the NRL players I recognise are:

Luke Keary (NSW)
Tepai Moeroa (NSW)
Angus Crichton (NSW) - named but then injured before playing
Adam Doueihi (NSW)
Albert Hopoate (NSW)
Luca Moretti (NSW)

I am not a big NRL fan so could be missing some but definitely a trend that NSW is losing more top schoolboys players to the NRL.

What is the situation in Queensland? Do many of the Queensland NRL players go to rugby schools as teenagers? Certainly in Sydney there aren't really private schools that would be described as rugby league schools in any way outside of the Catholic system.
 
B

Bobby Sands

Guest
I think these guys were dynamic at that age relative to their counterparts.

If they're being picked as the best from NSW then also making national selection wouldn't that suggest that their selection for NSW was justified?

Is anyone else doing anything particularly different? Your assertion would suggest that Queensland for example are picking a different profile of player in those age groups that become better professionals or have higher ceilings. I'm not really sure that's supported by the outcomes.

I think it is.

JOC (James O'Connor), Sautia, Petaia, To'omua, Jock Campbell (played 2s at school), Banks, Hunt, Muirhead, Tevita, Kerevi, Pasitoa etc have all come through QLD schools recently.
 
B

Bobby Sands

Guest
An interesting exercise would be to compare the NSW Schoolboys team to the Qld Schoolboys team and look at how many are still playing rugby 1, 2 and 3 years later.

Looking through the last decade of Australian Schoolboys, the NRL players I recognise are:

Luke Keary (NSW)
Tepai Moeroa (NSW)
Angus Crichton (NSW) - named but then injured before playing
Adam Doueihi (NSW)
Albert Hopoate (NSW)
Luca Moretti (NSW)

I am not a big NRL fan so could be missing some but definitely a trend that NSW is losing more top schoolboys players to the NRL.

What is the situation in Queensland? Do many of the Queensland NRL players go to rugby schools as teenagers? Certainly in Sydney there aren't really private schools that would be described as rugby league schools in any way outside of the Catholic system.

Not really?

Most of the GPS players that go to league were all leaguies to begin with.

Ponga, Sua, Croft, Hunt etc. (All Churchie ironically).

Sam Walker went to the Roosters, but again, he was only at IGS for education.

Of the above I don't think they were every expected to go on and play union, with K coming back the exception at this point.

Where the above blokes from NSW always expected to play league?

Moretti is a gun.
 

Adam84

Mark Ella (57)
If your takeaway from watching North vs South was they will put 50 on us I’m afraid you didn’t watch it closely enough. My takeaway was we can put 50 on them.

Agree, whilst some of the attack was good, the North v South teams both had the defensive cohesiveness of a Barbarians team whose training involved getting to know each other over a few beers at the pub.
 
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Braveheart81

James Horwill (77)
Staff member
I think it is.


How have the professional rugby careers worked out for former Queensland Australian Schoolboy backs:

Lindsay Crook
Dion Taumata
Walter Petaia
Craig Hunt
Jack Tuttle
Adrian Henley
Mitchell Third
Liam Jurd
James Todd
Joey Fittock
Jayden Ngamanu
Jordan Lenac
William Eadie
Joshua Vuta
Tristan Stanghon

It seems like there's a fairly high percentage of Queensland schoolboy standouts who never go anywhere either. Are these guys picked based on showing quite different attributes to the NSW players? Is it creating a higher strike rate of unearthing future professional stars?
 

Braveheart81

James Horwill (77)
Staff member
Where the above blokes from NSW always expected to play league?

Moretti is a gun.


Pretty much they all were leaguies right through. Crichton is a notable case that was lost to rugby and perhaps there was a chance to sign Moretti although I'm not sure.
 

Up the Guts

Steve Williams (59)
Agree, whilst some of the attack was good, the North v South teams both had the defensive cohesiveness of a Barbarians team whose training involved getting to know each other over a few beers at the pub.
Epitomised by the first play of the game when Caleb Clarke went 50m. Sure he beat a few guys when he got in space but it only happened after South completely garbled the kick chase.
 

KOB1987

Michael Lynagh (62)
Pretty much they all were leaguies right through. Crichton is a notable case that was lost to rugby and perhaps there was a chance to sign Moretti although I'm not sure.
Crichton certainly has a rugby pedigree - dad went to Scots, played Aus schools in ‘87, mum was a Frensham girl and her brother also went to Scots - but he grew up playing league, because the Young Yabbies don’t have juniors. Maybe that’s where he got the taste for it.
 

Brumby Runner

Tim Horan (67)
after watching the ABs North vs South, we are in for some challenging matches, they could put 50 on us easy

Not easy, I think, FP, if we select the best mix of attack and defense in the Wallabies. Too many players were below average defenders in the Wallabies in recent years, and the defensive plan was shit for most of the time.
 
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