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Wallabies 2021

fatprop

Jason Little (69)
Staff member
Timani, Kellaway and Foketi are very odd selections IMO. Particularly given other injured players have been selected.


I don't see Kellaway as an issue at all, good, smart, pretty complete footballer

He, like Muirhead & Wells are solid picks that you can rely on them to put in a consistent, reliable session

and if someone turns up that can meet their effort standards, and has "x" factor as well, we will have an upgrade
 

Braveheart81

James Horwill (77)
Staff member
i wonder if Braveheart still believes this "I think the greater availability of overseas professional contracts is improving Australian rugby rather than weakening it."


My second sentence was the context for the first.

"Essentially our biggest competitor is the NRL, not Europe and Japan and the more options players have to have rewarding careers in rugby union, the more likely they are to pursue it as a career."

I firmly believe we would be in a far weaker position if the only professional outcomes for our rugby players were the domestic contracts we have to offer. Of these, only a handful are reasonably lucrative in terms of the Wallaby top up contracts.

The overseas professional contracts available are absolutely weakening the Wallabies now.

They're important in getting top tier players to pursue a career in rugby though so it's a bit of a catch-22.
 

Sword of Justice

Jimmy Flynn (14)
I just worry Rennie is being sucked in to picking Timani in the same way previous coaches have been: they see an eight foot behemoth and think they can turn him into the ultimate rugby machine. But what we get (apart from very isolated examples) is more of a lumbering type who never really makes the impact he should. He's supposedly good in the scrum, which is great, but are our other options that bad at the scrum that it really makes a difference?

Weren't you a lock? You never got screamed at by a prop under pressure for being weak as piss? Can't have just been me.
 

Braveheart81

James Horwill (77)
Staff member
Such a true Aussie rugby statement right there!

What other group of rugby supporters would overlook the really recent poor form and go back a season or so to justify a player picked on name and reputation that is pretty much past his best before date.

Love it!;)

[insert French accent] You except success; no?:confused:


Literally every test coach would select the vice captain from the last year and one of the most experienced players in the squad as part of his squad despite some poor form.

It's a squad of 38, he's not picking a 23 right now.
 

Derpus

Rod McCall (65)
My second sentence was the context for the first.

"Essentially our biggest competitor is the NRL, not Europe and Japan and the more options players have to have rewarding careers in rugby union, the more likely they are to pursue it as a career."

I firmly believe we would be in a far weaker position if the only professional outcomes for our rugby players were the domestic contracts we have to offer. Of these, only a handful are reasonably lucrative in terms of the Wallaby top up contracts.

The overseas professional contracts available are absolutely weakening the Wallabies now.

They're important in getting top tier players to pursue a career in rugby though so it's a bit of a catch-22.

I still think full eligibility from overseas is inevitable. SR is already a second rate comp. Just a stepping stone to Japan or Europe.

But, there is still some local demand for it and it is a pathway to a comparatively lucrative career. It will end up being the equivalent of the local South American leagues. Certainly not complete trash (A-league) but also no where near the lucrative European leagues.
 

hifflepiff

Darby Loudon (17)
I still think full eligibility from overseas is inevitable. SR is already a second rate comp. Just a stepping stone to Japan or Europe.

But, there is still some local demand for it and it is a pathway to a comparatively lucrative career. It will end up being the equivalent of the local South American leagues. Certainly not complete trash (A-league) but also no where near the lucrative European leagues.

The way I see it, this is an inevitability. Especially if Rugby keeps growing in bigger economies like the US and Japan. There's just not enough money in Australia to compete.

It means we're going to have to make some hard decisions, because Australia's top players are going to keep going overseas earlier and earlier in their careers, regardless of what RA does.
 

Purce

Ted Thorn (20)
For those talking up the value of Foketi. Remember the game has two main aspects, attack and defence. How any one who took part in the Tahs backline this year could expect to play in a test match where defence is essential is beyond me I'm afraid.

Comparing one player's defensive capabilities who was in the Tahs 2021 team to one of say the Brumbies 2021 team is folly. Their defensive structure and organisation was a mess. This train of thought is like saying the equivalent Brumbies players shouldn't be selected because they made half as many line breaks, scored 25% less tries, less defenders beaten Etc Etc than their Tahs counterpart(TT). IMO Foketi has earned his spot in the Wallabies SQUAD. No doubt he has been picked so the coaches can have a closer look at him. Well deserved and outside of Paisami and To'omua no one showed they have what it takes to play Test match footy at 12 last year so it cannot hurt to see what he has to offer.
 

rodha

Fred Wood (13)
I'd argue the reason why Chieka got a shorter end of the stick than Deans is, Deans (and the then ARU) did bugger all to invest in the next generation of talent, both in coaching and players.

There's a myriad of reasons why, but the scariest thing from the pre Chieka period is/was how segregated the Super Clubs were with the national set up. Players weren't fit and SR didn't share data.

Anyway, putting that to one side. There are like 2-4 players overseas who would be part of the national squad. The player drain has had a greater impact on our competitiveness in Super Rugby more than our national level competitiveness.

Could you expand on this? I'm not sure I really understand you're point here, I remember one of the major criticisms of Deans was going too far in selecting young talent at the expense of the Wallabies senior players at the time? (more established guys such as Matt Guiteau, Drew Mitchell & George Smith, being ousted for example..)
 

Derpus

Rod McCall (65)
Could you expand on this? I'm not sure I really understand you're point here, I seem to recall one of the major criticisms of Deans was going too far in selecting young talent at the expense of the Wallabies senior players at the time?

Maybe you should start a Deans thread? i actually find this conversation somewhat interesting but it's not very relevant to the Wallabies in 21.
 
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swingpass

John Thornett (49)
My second sentence was the context for the first.

"Essentially our biggest competitor is the NRL, not Europe and Japan and the more options players have to have rewarding careers in rugby union, the more likely they are to pursue it as a career."

I firmly believe we would be in a far weaker position if the only professional outcomes for our rugby players were the domestic contracts we have to offer. Of these, only a handful are reasonably lucrative in terms of the Wallaby top up contracts.

The overseas professional contracts available are absolutely weakening the Wallabies now.

They're important in getting top tier players to pursue a career in rugby though so it's a bit of a catch-22.
yes of course it did, and is still true. it was just interesting reading some of the early responses and in the light of our migratory locks i thought i'd post it, out of context !
 

Braveheart81

James Horwill (77)
Staff member
yes of course it did, and is still true. it was just interesting reading some of the early responses and in the light of our migratory locks i thought i'd post it, out of context !


The locks are a huge issue.

Skillful, athletic big players are in short supply in all sports where they are particularly useful. It hurts even more that we seem to disproportionately lose them overseas.
 

Mr Pilfer

Sydney Middleton (9)
I think Godwin would have been a better pick over Feketi. He is not exciting but won't let you down in defense and was a big reason the force didn't leak as many points as the other teams during TT. Regardless as already mentioned they would both be fringe squad members anyway.
 

Braveheart81

James Horwill (77)
Staff member
Likewise, it's for a three test series before a new squad gets selected for the Rugby Championship.

Almost certainly the last few spots are a chance to look at a couple of players and I'd expect some changes there for the Rugby Championship.
 

eastman

Ron Walden (29)
I think Godwin would have been a better pick over Feketi. He is not exciting but won't let you down in defense and was a big reason the force didn't leak as many points as the other teams during TT. Regardless as already mentioned they would both be fringe squad members anyway.
Godwin has shown little development or improvement from his considerable time in Super Rugby - at least Foketi may have upside.
 

Members Section

Bob Loudon (25)
28 days away from the 2nd test at Aami park, currently zero games of afl in Melbourne. Would be thinking we are very close to this game being moved to the Gold Coast or Newcastle giving time to "re-promote" the game to try to sell tickets.

Side note Geelong have chosen to play at home this week in front of no fans as they are regional city & hoping to be allowed 50% capacity by this friday.
 

Zero_Cool

Arch Winning (36)
Timani is in the squad because he's that 'what you see is what you get' guy. He's an out and out vet, he's got over 150 Club Caps and has played a few tests. He's a 'plug and play' guy, you know what you are going to get, he won't do anything that surprises you -- either way he won't do anything special and he won't do anything too dumb (well we say that and yet we had Rob Simmons so...).

My 2c is plugging in Hodge at 13 with Hunter. While Hodge is our 'plug and play' guy in the backline for this year, I suspect/expect looking forward to the RWC we'll have shifted O'Connor into that utility role as he does have significant experience playing pretty much anywhere in the backline bar halfback. So I hope we see Hodge finally get a position with the Rebels. IMO 15 would be his best position, and looking at the Rebels squad that might be where he'll be most needed and he'd be a quality World Cup Fullback and has somewhat fulled that role having played that second fullback from the wing for the Wallabies.
Would have loved to have seen Godwin been another 'plug and play' guy filling that hole at center. Obviously not a guy you have a long term future for, but he fills a temporary need and you largely know what you are going to get until you get back some of the other centers.

On the squad I'm still shocked Sio was included, he's done nothing in the past 1.5 years to justify Wallabies selection, and I'd have preferred probably Tom Robinson in the squad instead of him, perhaps Feao Fotuaika would have been worth a look (big Cabous isn't eligible yet IIRC, but could be another option).
Also I'm a little bit shocked how many people were defending To'omua suggesting he should start, but also I'm shocked how few people were too. Most people defending To'omua were defending him on the basis of past performance and I expected more of that, but it looked to me that most agreed To'omua probably doesn't justify a starting spot on the basis of his performance this year. I really don't think you have space for To'omua and Hodge in the same 23, especially when you've got James (anywhere but 9) O'Connor starting. I'd be tempted to have Lolesio on the bench knowing you can shift O'Connor to -- anywhere and be able to ease Lol'o into test footy a little more nicely than throwing him in the deep end against New Zealand.
 
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