Wallabies 2023

[dru]

We do lose more than we win against the top 10 (based on the last three coaches only just having a winning record (McKenzie and Cheika) or a losing record (Rennie) and some of those games involve teams outside the top 10.

Our schedule is skewed towards top 5 sides though with multiple games a year against New Zealand and South Africa (we have a good record against South Africa).

Losing slightly more than you win against top 10 sides with more of those games against top 5 sides puts you firmly in the middle of the top 10 though. A ranking or 5th or 6th is pretty accurate in my view.

That seems accurate. But if we are at a quality level of mid top 10, we need to be managing games against 4/5 and 6/7 as if they are the knock out comp that is reality. We seem to be approaching these games as if we are top 5 not top 10.

Letting Kerevi out was dubious, discussion of also letting Koroibete go is idiocy.

 

[Viking]

Also, I think Koro, Kerevi, and Cooper have proven you don't need to remain a super xv player to remain a test level player. If you've proven yourself at test level then going to places like Japan can actually be better for their longevity and even skillset.

I think this was one of those big arguments previously, that players won't be match hardened. Which is no longer the case.

 

[Viking]

Pat McCabe played at 12 against Springboks world champions in a WC quarter final so...

So you want Koro to play McCabes role and just run straight and get smashed?
Kerevi and Pasami already do this but they have better passing, kicking and more experience at 12.

 

[PhilClinton]

There are clearly two groups of opinions:

1. Those who think Super Rugby can be saved and want to come up with ways to keep that talent here

2. Those who are happy to see Super Rugby move to NBL status where the best players are overseas but we are good at international level and the domestic comp is a bit shitty

 

[Viking]

I think I'm in the third group.

Super Rugby keeps around 60%-70% of the best players and 30-40% play overseas. Super Rugby gets their act together with NZ and it remains a premier rugby competition and whilst the European competition are equally as good its generally a different playing style and the southern hemisphere remains known for their more dynamic playing style.

I wouldn't say NBL. More liker soccer with the English Premier League V Spanish La Liga. Both good Leagues, but both different.

 

[PhilClinton]

Super Rugby keeps around 60%-70% of the best players and 30-40% play overseas.

I wouldn't say NBL. More liker soccer with the English Premier League V Spanish La Liga. Both good Leagues, but both different.

That is pretty much the NBL then - I'm not sure how many season ticket holders are going to line-up to watch a third string Reds flyhalf run the side, when the two best prospects ahead of him have ducked off to Japan and France respectively at the ripe old age of 23.

Not saying what is happening now is great either, but I'm not sure you'll have many people support a domestic competition which is essentially a feeder comp.

The issue of course is money, too much overseas, not enough here.

 

[Viking]

Too much competition and money in the NRL too. They got what, 16 teams? Maybe RA need a strategy that is aimed at bringing the entire NRL down so we can have all the players.

I just can't stop thinking that the NRL have 16 teams full of players and we can't even manage to fill 5 teams. Think about that, we should be able to fill 16 teams, which means 5 can go overseas and then 5 can fill the current super XV teams, and then theirs still another 6 teams of players to spare.

 

[RugbyReg]

If Noah's not the answer then we need one of the other young Fly Halves in the squad.

or playing as much rugby as possible, getting ready for the call up

 

[Tomikin]

or playing as much rugby as possible, getting ready for the call up

That too, which I guess they are.

 

[Derpus]

That too, which I guess they are.

All that professional rugby that's happening right now...

 

[Rob42]

All that professional rugby that's happening right now...

Straya A, mate.

 

[Jimmyjam]

Across the 3 matches, other than Smith getting that intercept, what did he do, that Noah didn't do?

I don't think either of them overplayed their hands and both of them leant heavily on the bloke next to them i.e. Kerevi and Farrell. Nothing wrong with that considering both are so young and for Noah, in-experienced. Noah played exactly how you'd imagine a 10 cap Wallaby to if you ask me.

Only thing I wanted more from him is, to be directing Marika and Samu to come back against traffic and target Smith's inside shoulder which we saw time and time again, his weakest point.

I don't think it comes down to what he did, more what he forces the defence to do... if he is a running threat, which Smith is, he forces the defence to factor it into their alignment, no threat, then the defenders concentrate on the next link... Kerevi. Even if you never run, the defence still need to be prepared if you might. That's the difference.

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

There are things that money can't buy. Respect, reputation, passion.

Ireland has won a Bledisloe Cup last weekend, something that the Australian rugby community is waiting for 20 years and you ask me that??

I wonder if the better perfomances of Aussie teams against Kiwis in Super Rugby were cause Aussies are getting stronger or the Kiwis are losing power

Don’t think I asked you anything.
Yes Ireland has huge respect but I do t respect it more cause they are now ranked number 1 vs if they were 3.
Rankings matter for World Cup pools and that’s it. No one cares about soccer rankings either until the small period in which it matters.

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

I agree. Can't think of time where he has had a line break or put someone through a hole at test level. Bit of a distributor that has a great place kicking boot. Only 22 years old though so it would unfair of me to say it's time to look elsewhere.

Marcus Smith is still riding the hype train that has followed him since he was playing for England U16s. He runs cross field and gives the big Goose Step but with a calm and settled defensive line won't go anywhere but push his team over the sideline.

Rae Rae

Ya I love watching smith play like I loved watching quade back in the day but see how he goes vs South Africa or France (he didn’t do much against us to be fair)
I think he played some
More traditional matches in the UK and six nations and played well tho so I think he can do both.

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

Super rugby is all about money.
With Japan going full professional I don’t know how they really stop it.
they need to find the money and that could come from real alignment with NZ as both should know they are tied at the hip. And realistically NZ and the pacific islands have enough depth that they could add a sixth team in Aus if NZ and the islands would pick from them.
a second Sydney team made up of aussies, kiwis, Tongans, Samoans, loigies returning to union. But I think critical is that NZ says they will pick players who play in aus. That opens up one and eventually two teams.
Then it’s a 14 team comp with 7 aussies teams, more domestic rivalries and more games for eyeballs.
Even then, not sure it competes fully
NRL doesn’t really have the competition except from French and Japanese Union and that was mostly that old Toulon owner

 

[Marce]

Rankings matter for World Cup pools and that’s it. No one cares about soccer rankings either until the small period in which it matters.

Yeah but you have to be consistent, you can't be number 9 and then be number 1 winning 2 games. To be number 3 now is a long way from 6th, and if you are #9 is longer

 

[Marce]

Super rugby is all about money.
With Japan going full professional I don’t know how they really stop it.

Cause the structure of Japanese Rugby is more similar to French Rugby than English Rugby. In Japan the private companies have the money and the power, Sunwolves was run by the Japanese Union. The private owners don't care about Japanese Rugby, they only care about their companies and their teams so they spend a lot of money in foreigners.

The budget of Japanese Union is limited so they couldn't get the best players for their franchise and couldn't compete against the private teams in League One. Lack of money was the reason why Sunwolves disappeared

 

[Joe Blow]

It's not like Quade hasn't had 10 years to win something... I rated him last year against SA but he was shot vs Japan.

If Noah's not the answer then we need one of the other young Fly Halves in the squad.

I think we should be watching the other blokes closely. Noah should stay with the squad and hopefully he will continue to improve and expand his game. However we should not (yet) install him as our first option at 10. The A program is perfect to see all the up and coming players a level up from Super Rugby.
One year out from the RWC we should be looking at getting Quade and JOC (James O'Connor) there as options along with Noah and/or whoever else comes through. Let’s see how Quade goes over the RC before passing judgement. He surprised most of us last year and there is no reason why he should not play at that level again this year.

 

[Marce]

If Noah's not the answer then we need one of the other young Fly Halves in the squad.

Make room for Donaldson, JOC (James O'Connor) is a former player long time ago

 

[LeCheese]

JOC (James O'Connor) (James O'Connor) is a former player long time ago

Saying something many times over doesn't make it more correct.

Aside from his handful of unfortunate kicks in game 2, I actually thought he looked more threatening (in terms of bending the line) than Noah. One rusty performance after missing a significant amount of footy due to injury and he's 'a former player'... JOC (James O'Connor) absolutely has a place in the squad.