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Wallabies 2023

Doritos Day

Chris McKivat (8)
So somehow all the Springbok Japanese players are eligible for their match v England this week.
Kind of related but Rugby Australia need to lay down the law here. I don't understand why the Aus players in Japan are being treated differently to Saffas.

This talk of peace deals etc. is nonsense

It should be made clear that post-WC, Aus players will be called up under Reg 9 in July and November just as every other country does.
 

Wilson

Mark Loane (55)
Kind of related but Rugby Australia need to lay down the law here. I don't understand why the Aus players in Japan are being treated differently to Saffas.

This talk of peace deals etc. is nonsense

It should be made clear that post-WC, Aus players will be called up under Reg 9 in July and November just as every other country does.
Next weeks games are not in the Reg 9 window, so any release for the Springbok players is something they will have specifically negotiated through things like "peace deals, etc."...
 

Tomthumb

Watty Friend (18)
Kind of related but Rugby Australia need to lay down the law here. I don't understand why the Aus players in Japan are being treated differently to Saffas.

This talk of peace deals etc. is nonsense

It should be made clear that post-WC, Aus players will be called up under Reg 9 in July and November just as every other country does.
South Africa have real power in world rugby, Australia don't
 

qwerty51

Nathan Sharpe (72)
The issue is when the Australian players were signed they weren't expected to play Tests, the Springboks were.

Aus players probably higher paid for not playing Tests but now we'll reduce their pay packet by selecting them so win win.
 

Tomikin

Steve Williams (59)
It is time for the blowtorch to turn on Rugby Australia for scheduling five tests in a row.

To act surprised when players break down (on top of the carnage throughout the season) and doubly so that there was mass resting for Italy is asinine.

Players are on record saying they can barely walk the day after a tough match.

Yes there is a need for $ but the only ones 'devaluing' the jersey are administrators pushing the players beyond their physical limits.
Is this on record? I haven't seen it do you have a link?
 

Doritos Day

Chris McKivat (8)
Next weeks games are not in the Reg 9 window, so any release for the Springbok players is something they will have specifically negotiated through things like "peace deals, etc."...
Yes was more getting at the decision for Koroibete (and Kerevi/Cooper, but injured) to be excluded from the Spring Tour altogether.

The less said about tests outside the window the better; again, I hope no administrators talk about others "devaluing" the jersey...
 

swingpass

Greg Davis (50)
Is this on record? I haven't seen it do you have a link?
many, many years ago i was part of a Combined Unis set up that played the AB's in Brisbane, 3 days after a test in Sydney, there were about half a dozen Wallabies in the team, all looked pretty beaten up, especially the blokes in the tight five, so 40 odd years later when both sides are physically bigger, hit harder and for a more sustained time, i can well imagine walking the next day isn't much fun.
 

RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
OK, stats time again. I've gone back through the stats from every test this year looking solely at penalties and TOs conceded.

Let's look at penalties and start with our most disciplined.

10 players used this year did NOT give away a penalty. That includes the likes of Vunivalu, Donaldson, Pollard, Simone, Gleeson and Perese who played less than a half of rugby.

The best of the others are:

Samu Kerevi - 0 penalties in 240 minutes
Tom Banks - 0 in 167
Sio - 0 in 101
Hanigan - 0 in 98

That Sio stat is pretty impressive given he is in a traditionally penalty rich position.

Looking at a Minutes per Penalty perspective, the best of the rest are:

Petaia = 335 (1 penalty in 335 mins)
Hodge = 304
Ikitau = 294 (3 in 884 mins)
Frost = 216
Samu = 204

Impressive stuff by the two forwards there.

At the other end of the scale we have:

Robertson with a penalty every 8.5 minutes (only played 34 mins).
Quade and Pone at 23.50 (both only played 47 mins)

Then we get into the ones that have played real minutes. Most of these shouldn't surprise but they are still concerning.

Tupou gives a penalty away every 30.17 minutes
Slipper - every 34 minutes (has given away the most penalties overall with 21)
Skelton - every 37.33 mins
Porecki - every 37.42
Bell - 37.60

They are the ones giving away a penalty every half they play.

But now to add in turnovers and we come up with a minutes per stuff up (with a multiplier for yellow cards and red cards so not a pure per minute thing, but more an indicator of ill-discipline).

Focusing on the players with over 100 mins of test footy this year the top most disciplined are:

1 - Sio = in 101 minutes of footy, has not conceded a penalty or given away a turnover.
2 - Arnold = 160 mins per stuff up
3 - Kerevi = 120
4 - Valetini = 84.27
5 - Banks = 83.50
6 - Samu = 81.80
7 - Nawaqanitawase = 80

On the other end of the scale:

1 - O'Connor = 15.25 mins per stuff up
2 - Gordon = 19.54
3 - Tupou = 27.85
4 - Skelton = 28
5 - Foley = 29.15 (only 2 penalties but 11 turnovers!)
6 - Slipper = 29.75
7 - Swain = 29.92
8 - Porecki = 29.93

they are the ones making a mistake every half an hour of test footy.

To take it one further step, the most disciplined team we could pick based on form this year (min 80 mins of game play) would be:

15 Tom Banks
14 Mark Nawaqanitawase
13 Len Ikitau
12 Samu Kerevi
11 Andrew Kellaway
10 Noah Loloesio
9 Nic White
8 Rob Valetini
7 Pete Samu
6 Ned Hanigan
5 Matt Philip
4 Rory Arnold
3 Allan Ala'alatoa
2 Lachlan Lonergan
1 Scott Sio

9 from the Brumbies this year
 

gel

Ken Catchpole (46)
To take it one further step, the most disciplined team we could pick based on form this year (min 80 mins of game play) would be:

<Snip>
9 Nic White

<Snip>
Nice work

But I would venture that person above is worth at least 4 "FFS I can't stand refereeing this friggen team, I'ma teach them a lesson by penalizing them for whatever the hell I can find" penalties per match.
 

RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
Nice work

But I would venture that person above is worth at least 4 "FFS I can't stand refereeing this friggen team, I'ma teach them a lesson by penalizing them for whatever the hell I can find" penalties per match.

yeah, I guess I could have picked Jock Campbell at 9 considering he spent time there
 

Tomikin

Steve Williams (59)
Nice work

But I would venture that person above is worth at least 4 "FFS I can't stand refereeing this friggen team, I'ma teach them a lesson by penalizing them for whatever the hell I can find" penalties per match.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 

PhilClinton

Jim Lenehan (48)
@RugbyReg very good stuff.

Is there a metric for involvements within those minutes played?

For example it’s not surprising to see two fly halves, a halfback and some front rowers in the high stuff up group, they’re in positions with lots of touches/lineout throws/scrum penalties, high ball usage positions.

For the likes of Samu and Valetini, are they getting through a decent amount of work with effective ball carrying whilst playing those error free minutes?

I guess what I’m saying is error free minutes played doesn’t always equal valuable work on the field so it would be interesting to see how it lines up.
 

RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
@RugbyReg very good stuff.

Is there a metric for involvements within those minutes played?

For example it’s not surprising to see two fly halves, a halfback and some front rowers in the high stuff up group, they’re in positions with lots of touches/lineout throws/scrum penalties, high ball usage positions.

For the likes of Samu and Valetini, are they getting through a decent amount of work with effective ball carrying whilst playing those error free minutes?

I guess what I’m saying is error free minutes played doesn’t always equal valuable work on the field so it would be interesting to see how it lines up.

Yep something to look at.
 

Joe Blow

Greg Davis (50)
TT will be in a real race to be fit for the RWC. He struggled after his last injury break. This will make Pone a priority to have coming off the bench and also means they need to groom another TH.
I suspect Rugby Australia will let DR (Dave Rennie) pick who he wants for the RWC, irregardless of where they play.
 

KOB1987

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
OK, stats time again. I've gone back through the stats from every test this year looking solely at penalties and TOs conceded.

Let's look at penalties and start with our most disciplined.

10 players used this year did NOT give away a penalty. That includes the likes of Vunivalu, Donaldson, Pollard, Simone, Gleeson and Perese who played less than a half of rugby.

The best of the others are:

Samu Kerevi - 0 penalties in 240 minutes
Tom Banks - 0 in 167
Sio - 0 in 101
Hanigan - 0 in 98

That Sio stat is pretty impressive given he is in a traditionally penalty rich position.

Looking at a Minutes per Penalty perspective, the best of the rest are:

Petaia = 335 (1 penalty in 335 mins)
Hodge = 304
Ikitau = 294 (3 in 884 mins)
Frost = 216
Samu = 204

Impressive stuff by the two forwards there.

At the other end of the scale we have:

Robertson with a penalty every 8.5 minutes (only played 34 mins).
Quade and Pone at 23.50 (both only played 47 mins)

Then we get into the ones that have played real minutes. Most of these shouldn't surprise but they are still concerning.

Tupou gives a penalty away every 30.17 minutes
Slipper - every 34 minutes (has given away the most penalties overall with 21)
Skelton - every 37.33 mins
Porecki - every 37.42
Bell - 37.60

They are the ones giving away a penalty every half they play.

But now to add in turnovers and we come up with a minutes per stuff up (with a multiplier for yellow cards and red cards so not a pure per minute thing, but more an indicator of ill-discipline).

Focusing on the players with over 100 mins of test footy this year the top most disciplined are:

1 - Sio = in 101 minutes of footy, has not conceded a penalty or given away a turnover.
2 - Arnold = 160 mins per stuff up
3 - Kerevi = 120
4 - Valetini = 84.27
5 - Banks = 83.50
6 - Samu = 81.80
7 - Nawaqanitawase = 80

On the other end of the scale:

1 - O'Connor = 15.25 mins per stuff up
2 - Gordon = 19.54
3 - Tupou = 27.85
4 - Skelton = 28
5 - Foley = 29.15 (only 2 penalties but 11 turnovers!)
6 - Slipper = 29.75
7 - Swain = 29.92
8 - Porecki = 29.93

they are the ones making a mistake every half an hour of test footy.

To take it one further step, the most disciplined team we could pick based on form this year (min 80 mins of game play) would be:

15 Tom Banks
14 Mark Nawaqanitawase
13 Len Ikitau
12 Samu Kerevi
11 Andrew Kellaway
10 Noah Loloesio
9 Nic White
8 Rob Valetini
7 Pete Samu
6 Ned Hanigan
5 Matt Philip
4 Rory Arnold
3 Allan Ala'alatoa
2 Lachlan Lonergan
1 Scott Sio

9 from the Brumbies this year
Excellent work there Reg. Just out of interest because he is a key player but isn't mentioned at all, where does Michael Hooper fit within that analysis?
 
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