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Wallabies 2023

Wilson

Mark Loane (55)
OK, stats time again. I've gone back through the stats from every test this year looking solely at penalties and TOs conceded.

Let's look at penalties and start with our most disciplined.

10 players used this year did NOT give away a penalty. That includes the likes of Vunivalu, Donaldson, Pollard, Simone, Gleeson and Perese who played less than a half of rugby.
Great work Reg, but you may want to double check whether the source of your stats is counting a penalty for each card or just counting them as cards, because Perese definitely gave away a very memorable penalty/yellow card this year:

 

PhilClinton

Jim Lenehan (48)
The 5 tests in a row having nothing to do with the injury toll up until this point though.

Yep - I think it's interesting how many posters have tried to make a big deal out of the amount of games played over the year. This schedule isn't much different to what's been happening for a long time.

There was a large portion of injuries which happened right at the start of the international season and during training at those times. That's not to do with wear and tear. And it's hard to argue it would be due to a Super Rugby injury hangover, if anything I think our players are likely more well rested than years past considering they no longer travel to South Africa, Argentina or Japan.
 

Braveheart81

James Horwill (77)
Staff member
The number of injuries this year has also meant we have used a lot of players and I'd guess we have fewer players playing a large number of minutes of test rugby compared to what we normally have.

Ikitau, Slipper, Valetini and Wright would have played the most minutes I'd assume. Everyone else missed at least a couple of tests. Ala'alatoa and White are probably in the next group.
 

Dctarget

Michael Lynagh (62)
The number of injuries this year has also meant we have used a lot of players and I'd guess we have fewer players playing a large number of minutes of test rugby compared to what we normally have.

Ikitau, Slipper, Valetini and Wright would have played the most minutes I'd assume. Everyone else missed at least a couple of tests. Ala'alatoa and White are probably in the next group.
If Brumbies can keep their squad fit, they have half the Wallabies starting team. Darwin's cohesion factor going off the charts.
 

Adam84

Simon Poidevin (60)
Yep - I think it's interesting how many posters have tried to make a big deal out of the amount of games played over the year. This schedule isn't much different to what's been happening for a long time.

There was a large portion of injuries which happened right at the start of the international season and during training at those times. That's not to do with wear and tear. And it's hard to argue it would be due to a Super Rugby injury hangover, if anything I think our players are likely more well rested than years past considering they no longer travel to South Africa, Argentina or Japan.

Yeah there’s obviously something amiss given the number of soft tissue injuries and concussions, during the TRC Wallabies were playing the same number as the other nations but even then had a far higher injury toll.

I think blaming the EOYT workload is missing the true issue, which could be anywhere between poor Super Rugby conditioning which left them under-prepared for test rugby and playing catch up, poor S&C/training techniques at the Wallabies, sheer bad luck or a combination of all three.
 

Namerican

Chris McKivat (8)
Yeah there’s obviously something amiss given the number of soft tissue injuries and concussions, during the TRC Wallabies were playing the same number as the other nations but even then had a far higher injury toll.

I think blaming the EOYT workload is missing the true issue, which could be anywhere between poor Super Rugby conditioning which left them under-prepared for test rugby and playing catch up, poor S&C/training techniques at the Wallabies, sheer bad luck or a combination of all three.

It seems impossible to figure that out barring an in-depth look at their S&C (and their peers for a point of comparison) or complaints about their training/S&C from someone on the inside (player, coach, whatever).

It's been a wide range of problems: knees, achilles, ankle, concussion, I think Paisami did his shoulder etc.

Guys like Quade/Kerevi hadn't even really played yet. I doubt they could have mucked them up that bad in a few training sessions.
 

PhilClinton

Jim Lenehan (48)
Guys like Quade/Kerevi hadn't even really played yet. I doubt they could have mucked them up that bad in a few training sessions.

Personally, I think Quade was the first marker that maybe these guys weren't being given the proper advice or recovery programs.

He pulled out of a game during warmup with a calf strain and then returned to the pitch a few games later to blow out his Achilles in the same leg. Other athletes have done similar things in the past, the two injuries are related and have turned what could have been a minor injury into a yearlong recovery program.
 

Rob42

Arch Winning (36)
On Stan, Morgan Turinui seemed to suggest they'd realised there were problems on the S&C front, and were bringing in new people next season.
 

PhilClinton

Jim Lenehan (48)
On Stan, Morgan Turinui seemed to suggest they'd realised there were problems on the S&C front, and were bringing in new people next season.

Interesting - I wonder how at an 'elite' high performance representative team level, these types of appointments can go so wrong.

The student interns helping out the local 6th grade side manage to keep the 45yr old props on the paddock for a season.
 

LeCheese

Bill McLean (32)
On Stan, Morgan Turinui seemed to suggest they'd realised there were problems on the S&C front, and were bringing in new people next season.
Did it seem like they'd identified something specific, or just decided that there must be an issue due to the number of injuries, and that a change to personnel was logical?
 

Adam84

Simon Poidevin (60)
Did it seem like they'd identified something specific, or just decided that there must be an issue due to the number of injuries, and that a change to personnel was logical?

In S&C it would be pretty hard to identify something specific which was contributing without an extensive dataset and researchers analysing it. I’d say they’ve come to the same correlation=causation assessment as the rest.
 

LeCheese

Bill McLean (32)
In S&C it would be pretty hard to identify something specific which was contributing without an extensive dataset and researchers analysing it. I’d say they’ve come to the same correlation=causation assessment as the rest.
Yeah that was my thought, hence the question - particularly if there hasn't been a change in program or personnel leading into the '22 season that they can attribute it to.
 

PhilClinton

Jim Lenehan (48)
Just read a report that states Eddie will sign with America for 8 years and is unlikely to be tempted by an AUS offer.
Good!

That'll take Eddie to the 2031 RWC in America and he'll be 70yrs old. Probably a decent way to bow out of the top jobs with some money in the bank.
 

Brumby Runner

Tim Horan (67)
OK, stats time again. I've gone back through the stats from every test this year looking solely at penalties and TOs conceded.

Let's look at penalties and start with our most disciplined.

10 players used this year did NOT give away a penalty. That includes the likes of Vunivalu, Donaldson, Pollard, Simone, Gleeson and Perese who played less than a half of rugby.

The best of the others are:

Samu Kerevi - 0 penalties in 240 minutes
Tom Banks - 0 in 167
Sio - 0 in 101
Hanigan - 0 in 98

That Sio stat is pretty impressive given he is in a traditionally penalty rich position.

Looking at a Minutes per Penalty perspective, the best of the rest are:

Petaia = 335 (1 penalty in 335 mins)
Hodge = 304
Ikitau = 294 (3 in 884 mins)
Frost = 216
Samu = 204

Impressive stuff by the two forwards there.

At the other end of the scale we have:

Robertson with a penalty every 8.5 minutes (only played 34 mins).
Quade and Pone at 23.50 (both only played 47 mins)

Then we get into the ones that have played real minutes. Most of these shouldn't surprise but they are still concerning.

Tupou gives a penalty away every 30.17 minutes
Slipper - every 34 minutes (has given away the most penalties overall with 21)
Skelton - every 37.33 mins
Porecki - every 37.42
Bell - 37.60

They are the ones giving away a penalty every half they play.

But now to add in turnovers and we come up with a minutes per stuff up (with a multiplier for yellow cards and red cards so not a pure per minute thing, but more an indicator of ill-discipline).

Focusing on the players with over 100 mins of test footy this year the top most disciplined are:

1 - Sio = in 101 minutes of footy, has not conceded a penalty or given away a turnover.
2 - Arnold = 160 mins per stuff up
3 - Kerevi = 120
4 - Valetini = 84.27
5 - Banks = 83.50
6 - Samu = 81.80
7 - Nawaqanitawase = 80

On the other end of the scale:

1 - O'Connor = 15.25 mins per stuff up
2 - Gordon = 19.54
3 - Tupou = 27.85
4 - Skelton = 28
5 - Foley = 29.15 (only 2 penalties but 11 turnovers!)
6 - Slipper = 29.75
7 - Swain = 29.92
8 - Porecki = 29.93

they are the ones making a mistake every half an hour of test footy.

To take it one further step, the most disciplined team we could pick based on form this year (min 80 mins of game play) would be:

15 Tom Banks
14 Mark Nawaqanitawase
13 Len Ikitau
12 Samu Kerevi
11 Andrew Kellaway
10 Noah Loloesio
9 Nic White
8 Rob Valetini
7 Pete Samu
6 Ned Hanigan
5 Matt Philip
4 Rory Arnold
3 Allan Ala'alatoa
2 Lachlan Lonergan
1 Scott Sio

9 from the Brumbies this year
Thanks Reg. That's a pretty mean looking team.
 
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