Wallabies 2023

[rodha]

 

[Wilson]

Maybe I'm weird but that doesn't actually look that bad to me.

Most of those assistants doing a 3+ year stint with a bit of a refresh following the world cup. Also plenty went on to something bigger or better (e.g. Borthwick, Seibold - Head Coaching, Wisemantel - same role but with his own country). Others like Ella were specifically bought in for short term consultancy and the fact that it was only a short stint shouldn't necessarily be taken as evidence of burnout or a clash of personalities.

 

[stillmissit]

I thought it would be worse than that Rodha. 2.5 a year seems reasonable to me considering Eddie's personality. I thought Roger Gould was one but that might have been in Japan or somewhere else.

 

[Braveheart81]

to be fair, Kearns had played for the Waratahs before the Wallabies. He wasn't like Tim Horan who played for Australia before he played for QLD.

Yep. I guess just adding the piece to the puzzle that it wasn't like Kearns was languishing in 2nd grade while a nobody was playing first grade. Clearly Kearns was about to become a much better player than Jones but Jones was no mug.

The way the story about Dwyer and Kearns gets told though it makes it sound like Dwyer discovered Phil Kearns and prior to that no one had a clue who he was or whether he had any talent.

 

[stillmissit]

It's a pity that Jack Maddocks cannot come back this year, we could use him at full-back, I have little faith in others that have been tried,
Anybody with left-field options that might stick their hand up in Super Rugby this year?

 

[stillmissit]

Yep. I guess just adding the piece to the puzzle that it wasn't like Kearns was languishing in 2nd grade while a nobody was playing first grade. Clearly Kearns was about to become a much better player than Jones but Jones was no mug.

The way the story about Dwyer and Kearns gets told though it makes it sound like Dwyer discovered Phil Kearns and prior to that no one had a clue who he was or whether he had any talent.

I think the question should be would he have been picked if it had not been Bob Dwyer as coach ie he knew Kearns abilities from Randwick

 

[molman]

Maybe I'm weird but that doesn't actually look that bad to me.

Most of those assistants doing a 3+ year stint with a bit of a refresh following the world cup. Also plenty went on to something bigger or better (e.g. Borthwick, Seibold - Head Coaching, Wisemantel - same role but with his own country). Others like Ella were specifically bought in for short term consultancy and the fact that it was only a short stint shouldn't necessarily be taken as evidence of burnout or a clash of personalities.

You know, I must be weird too because I thought exactly the same. Interesting to see people like Borthwick & Wisemantel obviously happy to work with him again. Most of the flux was during the COVID period which makes a lot of sense. People like Ryles opted not to return during that period. There was obviously the reporting of the incident with John Mitchell and his sacking, but tbf he's bounced around so many jobs over the years he doesn't really have a track record for sticking around for long anyway.

 

[Braveheart81]

I think the question should be would he have been picked if it had not been Bob Dwyer as coach ie he knew Kearns abilities from Randwick

It's not really possible to answer this definitively but given he was selected in the Australian under 21 team and then for NSW I don't think it is reasonable to suggest that but for Bob Dwyer, Kearns would have never played for the Wallabies.

 

[Derpus]

Fuck I can't wait for off-season to end. This is grim.

 

[molman]

It's a pity that Jack Maddocks cannot come back this year, we could use him at full-back, I have little faith in others that have been tried,
Anybody with left-field options that might stick their hand up in Super Rugby this year?

Maddocks had his chances, but just never really got his consistency right. I haven't seen enough of him at Pau to know how he is travelling. I know he's got connections to Coleman (Waratahs) so maybe he'll decide to return at some stage, but at this point I still feel like Banks is better.

 

[molman]

Fuck I can't wait for off-season to end. This is grim.

A couple of trials would even do

 

[rodha]

Maybe I'm weird but that doesn't actually look that bad to me.

Most of those assistants doing a 3+ year stint with a bit of a refresh following the world cup. Also plenty went on to something bigger or better (e.g. Borthwick, Seibold - Head Coaching, Wisemantel - same role but with his own country). Others like Ella were specifically bought in for short term consultancy and the fact that it was only a short stint shouldn't necessarily be taken as evidence of burnout or a clash of personalities.

I guess the implication is that it's difficult to get much consistency in gameplan and direction when all the coaches are changing so much.

It's getting a balance between fresh ideas and too much disruption.

 

[dru]

I guess the implication is that it's difficult to get much consistency in gameplan and direction when all the coaches are changing so much.

It's getting a balance between fresh ideas and too much disruption.

That chart you posted - balance looks pretty much ideal.

 

[rodha]

Maybe I'm weird but that doesn't actually look that bad to me.

Most of those assistants doing a 3+ year stint with a bit of a refresh following the world cup. Also plenty went on to something bigger or better (e.g. Borthwick, Seibold - Head Coaching, Wisemantel - same role but with his own country). Others like Ella were specifically bought in for short term consultancy and the fact that it was only a short stint shouldn't necessarily be taken as evidence of burnout or a clash of personalities.

A lot of those guys came straight from league with minimal union experience, including all of the post-2020 non forwards coaches.

 

[rodha]

You know, I must be weird too because I thought exactly the same. Interesting to see people like Borthwick & Wisemantel obviously happy to work with him again. Most of the flux was during the COVID period which makes a lot of sense. People like Ryles opted not to return during that period. There was obviously the reporting of the incident with John Mitchell and his sacking, but tbf he's bounced around so many jobs over the years he doesn't really have a track record for sticking around for long anyway.

In international rugby, this level of coaching turnover is highly unusual. Unless the head coach gets sacked, coaching groups rarely shed more than 1 of the key guys (attack, defence, forwards) over a 4 year cycle.

 

[molman]

In international rugby, this level of coaching turnover is highly unusual. Unless the head coach gets sacked, coaching groups rarely shed more than 1 of the key guys (attack, defence, forwards) over a 4 year cycle.

Which generally makes a loose kind of sense as people are working towards a RWC and for most coaches there is unlikely a step up from coaching an International team, but I think it's a stretch to draw sweeping conclusion with so little factual insight to the dynamics or contextual elements. As pointed out there didn't seem to be systemic reasons that it was so with many indicators that people were willing to work with Eddie repeatedly and for significant time, factors of people moving on to better things for them (role/location etc) and a number of people on that list brought in for specific short term roles.

By your inference Matt Taylor & Scott Wisemantel leaving prior to Rennie's sacking 'highly unusual' and speaks to Dave's character, which personally I highly doubt.

 

[rodha]

Which generally makes a loose kind of sense as people are working towards a RWC and for most coaches there is unlikely a step up from coaching an International team, but I think it's a stretch to draw sweeping conclusion with so little factual insight to the dynamics or contextual elements. As pointed out there didn't seem to be systemic reasons that it was so with many indicators that people were willing to work with Eddie repeatedly and for significant time, factors of people moving on to better things for them (role/location etc) and a number of people on that list brought in for specific short term roles.

By your inference Matt Taylor & Scott Wisemantel leaving prior to Rennie's sacking 'highly unusual' and speaks to Dave's character, which personally I highly doubt.

Matt Taylor jumped before he was pushed, I thought he shouldn't of gotten the job over Less Kiss & Steve Tandy in the first place, as Scotland's defensive record deteriorated under his guidance. Eddie more or less confirmed that Wisemantel left for family reasons.

 

[Adam84]

Please end the off-season, I can’t read anymore of this

 

[Hawko]

It's not really possible to answer this definitively but given he was selected in the Australian under 21 team and then for NSW I don't think it is reasonable to suggest that but for Bob Dwyer, Kearns would have never played for the Wallabies.

I agree. The other fact? that sticks in my head is that Tony Daly and Kearns walked off at the end of the game and one said to the other "Well at least we can say we played one test for Australia".

 

[rodha]

Speaking of the Wallabies coaching team... there's a very real possibility that they end up with an all-Brumbies staff.

As I said earlier Du-Plessis was a mate of Rennie's, who he played under at Glasgow, he was the same as Taylor, Rennie's appointment, someone from his connections in Glasgow/Scotland, not Rugby Australia's appointment. There was already a strong push for the Brumbies influence to take hold and with Laurie Fisher coming on board last season, it became further exacerbated.

Dan Palmer was floating around Wallabies camp in 2022, he was even photographed in the Australian changing room after the first Springbok test. This lead to speculation that Rugby Australia were concerned about Du-Plessis' performance and that Palmer was being groomed for the scrum role going forward post-Rennie.

I think it's likely we'll see an all-Brumbies coaching group of Jones, McKellar, Fisher, Palmer for this upcoming season - possibly 2024 onwards.

I'm reminded of the All Blacks management overhaul when Henry took over in 2004. There was a similar sentiment developed in the media (to the Brumbies current influence on the Wallabies...) during this period that Canterbury had a monopoly in the NZRU, with Steve Tew and Darren Shand, along with Steve Hansen and Wayne Smith all with strong Canterbury & Crusaders connections (even Graham Henry was born, raised & schooled in Christchurch interestingly enough..)

Wayne Smith, Steve Hansen, Gilbert Enoka were all previous coaches at the Crusaders. Furthermore, Steve Tew the Crusaders CEO, left the Crusaders for the same NZRU job. Darren Shand left as manager of the Crusaders to become manager of the All Blacks. Even Erroll Collins, the Crusaders baggage man left for the same position with the All Blacks.

So could the implementation of Australia's Brumbies mafia bring about a similar era of unprecedented national success - as the Crusaders cartel delivered from 2004-2011?