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Wallabies v Argentina Sat 2 October CBus Stadium

Rugbynutter39

Steve Williams (59)
Fair enough. Very hard for me to argue with that. What does the rest of your pack look like?
Good question - if they also nab Arnold you could see them as two starting locks with lsl,swain, rodda and Philips fighting for the bench spot. All the latter bloody good choices to have. I can’t imagine though Rennie will let them walk into a starting spot…
 

TSR

Geoff Shaw (53)
Okay. So a couple of follow up questions -
- are you then happy with Valetini in the backrow given our lineout is already struggling and Hooper is a lock for 7?
- how do you feel that both your first choice starting locks are based OS and are going to be unavailable for a good portion of international tests and prep work?
 

Rugbynutter39

Steve Williams (59)
Okay. So a couple of follow up questions -
- are you then happy with Valetini in the backrow given our lineout is already struggling and Hooper is a lock for 7?
- how do you feel that both your first choice starting locks are based OS and are going to be unavailable for a good portion of international tests and prep work?
Good questions mate and i reckon you have given way more thought then me on this. Put it this way it would potentially put LSL in the mix for 6 as yeh I could not see McMahon starting if had something like this. Like I said I don’t see Arnold and Skelton walking into the starting side some for reasons you mention and also other reasons which is just not a good look.
 

Dctarget

Steve Williams (59)
The pack I want to see run out against Scotland:
1. Bell
2. FF
3. Tupou
4. Arnold
5. Philip
6. Swinton
7. Hooper
8. Valetini
16. Latu
17. Slipper
18. Alaalatoa
19. Skelton
20. McMahon if 5/3 McMahon & Leota if 6/2
 

Up the Guts

Andrew Slack (58)
Okay. So a couple of follow up questions -
- are you then happy with Valetini in the backrow given our lineout is already struggling and Hooper is a lock for 7?
- how do you feel that both your first choice starting locks are based OS and are going to be unavailable for a good portion of international tests and prep work?
I feel we have to keep this run of momentum going. If it takes selecting OS players then I have no issue with that. Point taken about the lineout, probably where Swinton gets back in the side.
 

Dctarget

Steve Williams (59)
As we've noted though, Rennie likes to really train with the OS based players first before throwing them in. So, I don't know if the European players will play before England and a bench role at that.

I may as well finish my team as the backline is the most settled I've seen it in years.
9. White
10. Cooper
11. Koroibete
12. Kerevi
13. Ikitau
14. Kellaway
15. Hodge
21. McDermott
22. Petaia
23. Beale
 

TSR

Geoff Shaw (53)
I feel we have to keep this run of momentum going. If it takes selecting OS players then I have no issue with that. Point taken about the lineout, probably where Swinton gets back in the side.
Definitely agree with the first statement.

I promise I am not trying to be argumentative here, but I keep coming back to the balance of the pack.

For me, one of the keys to our run of success has been the growth of Valetini. He also has the bonus of being a domestic based player who I am pretty sure just signed an extension. His one shortcoming is he’s not a regular jumper. He can jump and I would guess is a powerhouse lifter. But he’s not front-line. But if we want to keep momentum going I’d like to try and continue to use the players who have been getting the result.

I have concerns having him and Skelton in the same pack and, in a lot of ways, they would do the same role. I think it’s instructive that Rennie has got his current locks doing far more of the breakdown work and less of the carrying (which, incidentally I feel works against LSL aswell).

But If Skelton is playing so well, he has to get a run. If/when he does I think the most likely is in a combination with Swinton at flank and probably Samu at 8.

In a first choice pack I see Arnold as a better fit with Valetini at 8, Swinton at 6 and with Skelton & Samu on the bench. Skelton & Samu on at similiar times with Samu to probably come in for Valetini instead of Swinton to help keep the lineout strong.

Or something like that. Probably all wrong. But that is what you get when I sit down to catch up on some work on a public holiday. :)
 

Up the Guts

Andrew Slack (58)
Definitely agree with the first statement.

I promise I am not trying to be argumentative here, but I keep coming back to the balance of the pack.

For me, one of the keys to our run of success has been the growth of Valetini. He also has the bonus of being a domestic based player who I am pretty sure just signed an extension. His one shortcoming is he’s not a regular jumper. He can jump and I would guess is a powerhouse lifter. But he’s not front-line. But if we want to keep momentum going I’d like to try and continue to use the players who have been getting the result.

I have concerns having him and Skelton in the same pack and, in a lot of ways, they would do the same role. I think it’s instructive that Rennie has got his current locks doing far more of the breakdown work and less of the carrying (which, incidentally I feel works against LSL aswell).

But If Skelton is playing so well, he has to get a run. If/when he does I think the most likely is in a combination with Swinton at flank and probably Samu at 8.

In a first choice pack I see Arnold as a better fit with Valetini at 8, Swinton at 6 and with Skelton & Samu on the bench. Skelton & Samu on at similiar times with Samu to probably come in for Valetini instead of Swinton to help keep the lineout strong.

Or something like that. Probably all wrong. But that is what you get when I sit down to catch up on some work on a public holiday. :)
Can we get away with LSL at 6 in the NH where we are less likely to get skinned on the edges?
 

TSR

Geoff Shaw (53)
Well - my answer to that is I think he has lots of characteristics to be a really good 6. But he is not there at the moment. But, even if he is, it doesn’t really solve the problem unless you move Swinton or Samu to 8.
 

Derpus

John Eales (66)
Swinton is obviously our long term solution at 6 in my view. He's been shoved down the queue to get his tackling technique in order. Once that's done he's exactly what we need there. Busy, abrasive and excellent in the lineout.
 

upthereds#!

Peter Fenwicke (45)
Swintons our man at 6, gets dirty, gets dominant but also is the best backrower in the lineout.

With an Arnold/Skelton lock pairing then definitely Swinton at 6.
 

wamberal

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
If Skelton starts against England we will need another two lineout specialists. I would pick LSL at 6 to provide one of the specialist jumpers.
 

formerflanker

Peter Fenwicke (45)
With all the focus on tall men jumping for the line out ball, let's not forget the increasing prevalence of surprise line outs.
So far in the RC I've seen (IIRC) Hooper and Kwagga Smith jumping at 2; quick throws to 1; and flat throws to 2 or 3 across the back of crouching 1 and 2. Then there's always the long throw for a back to catch.
Perhaps coaches are looking for alternatives to having 3 or 4 tall timber jumpers, and then the shorter backorders can be selected for their other skills.
 

tragic

Arch Winning (36)
According the internet Petaia didn’t play rugby until he went to Brisbane Boys High, was a league player before and I imagine up until he sign with the Reds was heavily involved in League as well as Union.
Petaia has the issues that you see in league kids that turn up at rugby schools there judgement is terrible. Their athleticism is outstanding but their judgement is shocking, they get away with it at schoolboy level at a professional level athleticism is better across the entirety of the team and they get found out. They bring league judgement and strategy to Union that just doesn’t work.
In league your backs generally only get heavily involved in the game when deep in the oppositions 20 and late in the tackle account. Throw a risky off load or low percentage pass what does it matter it’s tackle 5 you hand the ball over on tackle 6. It’s not like kicking for territory is an option and the rules have negated the effectiveness of the bomb in league.
To me that is the essence of Petaia’s issue great athlete, in the simple world of league a good player but somewhat short of the necessary smarts when it comes to rugby.
Kellaway is nowhere near the athlete that Petaia is, however Kellaways rugby smarts are a long long way ahead of Petaia’s at present.
I’m all for a bit of league bashing but Petaia played rugby for 5 years from age 13 for Brisbane State High (including 2 yrs in the 1st XV) before parachuting into Super rugby. He played rugby league for a few years age 12 and below.
It’s a pretty long bow to suggest that a few years of junior league still cloud his judgement after 9 years of rugby union starting in his early teens.
 

Brumby Runner

Tim Horan (67)
8
I’m all for a bit of league bashing but Petaia played rugby for 5 years from age 13 for Brisbane State High (including 2 yrs in the 1st XV) before parachuting into Super rugby. He played rugby league for a few years age 12 and below.
It’s a pretty long bow to suggest that a few years of junior league still cloud his judgement after 9 years of rugby union starting in his early teens.
With due respect Reg and his disrespectful retort to my earlier post, I have an inkling that KP used the Ikitau story and attributed it to Petaia. That was the oblique point I was making.
 

dru

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
With all the focus on tall men jumping for the line out ball, let's not forget the increasing prevalence of surprise line outs.
So far in the RC I've seen (IIRC) Hooper and Kwagga Smith jumping at 2; quick throws to 1; and flat throws to 2 or 3 across the back of crouching 1 and 2. Then there's always the long throw for a back to catch.
Perhaps coaches are looking for alternatives to having 3 or 4 tall timber jumpers, and then the shorter backorders can be selected for their other skills.

Flanker, missing the problem a bit I think. If we take Skelton into the line out (and Hooper is a lock at 7) our problem is not trying to find 3 or 4 tall timber jumpers. It is trying to find more than 1.
 

Rugbynutter39

Steve Williams (59)
8

With due respect Reg and his disrespectful retort to my earlier post, I have an inkling that KP used the Ikitau story and attributed it to Petaia. That was the oblique point I was making.
There might be pot stirring on your love of the brumbies BR but you know we actually respect a loyal fan as really what it is all about.
I’m all for a bit of league bashing but Petaia played rugby for 5 years from age 13 for Brisbane State High (including 2 yrs in the 1st XV) before parachuting into Super rugby. He played rugby league for a few years age 12 and below.
It’s a pretty long bow to suggest that a few years of junior league still cloud his judgement after 9 years of rugby union starting in his early teens.
personally I am little tired of the Petaia bashing yes he takes risk and he has needed to balance that but we want a player who can offer that X factor in a controlled way (ie choose your moments) and I thought he proved he has taken this on board in last game. Glad the young fella does not read G&GR forums and more likely the general media which is no where near as one sided on here. Harsh crowd…
 

TSR

Geoff Shaw (53)
Flanker, missing the problem a bit I think. If we take Skelton into the line out (and Hooper is a lock at 7) our problem is not trying to find 3 or 4 tall timber jumpers. It is trying to find more than 1.
For me even two genuine targets is too easy to defend. You either need 3 genuines and a change up, or 2 genuines and 2 that are more than half-decent.

However, on the flip side I will concede that a forward park with all of Arnold, Skelton & Valetini wouldn’t struggle for physical presence.
 
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The_Brown_Hornet

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
Swinton is obviously our long term solution at 6 in my view. He's been shoved down the queue to get his tackling technique in order. Once that's done he's exactly what we need there. Busy, abrasive and excellent in the lineout.

I've been a critic, but if he cuts out that wannabe hard man bullshit then he's the best 6 we've had since Fardy. In a lot of respects, replacing Scott in that hard carrying, rock shifting, line out jumping role is where we've fallen down in recent years.
 
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