Western Force - 10 years on

[RunnerGunner]

It's now almost 10 years since their inaugural season. They've been my team in Super Rugby since and whilst I certainly am no die hard, it's been difficult on the field.

The Franchise failed to hold onto marquee players like James O'Connor, Drew Mitchell, Mat Giteau and David Pocock & have failed to reach the finals yet. There was some hope in the 07/08/09 period but it's been largely poor since.

I'm interested to know what the effect has been outside of that though. Has the number of junior players reached expectations? What is local interest like? Considering the poor on field product at times and the loss of star players the crowds aren't all that bad in my opinion.

 

[wamberal]

I remember when the selection process was on between the WA and Victorian bids.


I assumed that Victoria would get it, but apparently the ARU was really impressed by the amount of public support for the WA option. Plus I gather that the Vics were a bit complacent and lazy in their approach to the selection process.


And it all looked so rosy for the Force - at the start - lots of public support, some real stars in the team, and solid financial backing.


From the outside it looks as though things have levelled out, or even dropped off a bit. The playing style in recent years has been pretty dreary, perhaps out of necessity.


They have had some great wins over the years, though.

 

[TOCC]

I think Firepower was the worst thing to happen to the Force, thats when the wheels fell off. When Firepower came on board they lost direction and went chasing the big name marquee players rather then focussing on developing talent, when Firepower fell apart the marquee players who were owed money went were bitter and went back home and the Force having been trying to recover ever since.

Its incredible that at one point the Force had Mitchell, Giteau, Pocock, Ioane and Cross in the backline. Other players like Hilgendorf, Shepherd and Henjak were no slouches either,

 

[Dismal Pillock]

I see the future of the Western Force as them being bought up lock stock and barrel (ARU need the $$, they'll sell them off, money talks baby) by an Auckland real estate conglomerate to serve as a feeder franchise for the Auckland Blues and their more unruly charges.

Send the juvees awayyy off out to Perth, out of troubles way, couple of days a week down the mines to toughen them up then footy on the weekend. That'll get them ready for a call up to the 1st's.

The Western Blues.

aka The Western Blues Borstal Breakout

Sham 69 on the P.A

Alby can run it.

All set then.


Righto.

 

[AussieDominance]

Wasn't a major part of the reason the great timezone that they could play the Force home games in for TV?

I think we are starting to see a more steady supply of local players join the Force which is good for Rugby.

I am a bit concerned with the statements that they are not supportive of players from Eastern States coming and going and that they would rather import Kiwis and South Africans.

Simply put it doesn't make sense it is an Australian franchise.

In the early stages which you could say they still are in they might have to carry some of the Eastern Staters whilst Rugby continues to hopefully grow in the west.

I understand they may leave but I would state this as a problem with culture potentially and maybe not a generic thought of every player from the Eastern states.

Would appreciate some more conversation regarding this.

 

[Teh Other Dave]

WA's local comp was miles ahead of Melbourne's at the time, and it was felt that the rugby community would embrace the club (which it did initially). Part of the trouble seemed to stem from initially holding matches at Subiaco, which is an enormous ground and kept spectators a long way from the action. Obviously the firepower debacle drove Giteau and Mitchell away, and meant that guys like Pocock and O'Connor were more comfortable saying 'thanks for giving me a start, byebyenow.' Despite this, the Force still manage to hold a reasonable supporter base in a city less than half the size of Sydney and Melbourne, and competing against the Eagles and Freo. I guess that's a testament to the WA rugby community that has built slowly but steadily over the decades.

I remember there being a lot of angst from Queensland after the Force signed Sharpe. This needs to be viewed in the context that the Reds were in a slide - they'd lost to NSW for the first time in Super 12 in 2005, and their administration couldn't run a pissup in a brewery (in fact, they even managed to lose their major sponsor, and an ARU bailout and Qld Government sponsorship saved them). Losing young local talent like Drew Mitchell and Digby Ioane was deeply troubling. Losing Sharpe was catastrophic. Compare to the Brumbies forming, where Queenslanders seemed happy watching young blokes from Brisbane getting a shot at rep football without having to go to the Tahs (see: Little, J., and Grey, N.). The Reds were also a very good team in 1996 (I watched them put 52 on Auckland).

As it is, I have a soft spot for the Force. Mainly because I want to see the game grow in Perth, and hopefully see more West Australian kids make their way into professional rugby.

 

[TOCC]

Like AussieDominance mentioned, a key reason in the license been granted to Perth was the timezone factor, on a Friday night for instance it allows for 3 consecutive games of Super Rugby. In saying that, the grassroots bid of the Force was much stronger at the time, they had more locals willing to get out and voice their support for a team and on paper it looked extremely promising. The momentum of that support has wavered for a few reasons, Firepower, coaching and stadium issues to name a few.

Lets just hope the NRL doesn't establish a team in Perth, that would really cannibalise some of the Force supporter base and corporate support.

 

[Caputo]

Here are two successes, the first Matt Hodgson and Pek Cowan uncapped prior to the Force and they have stayed for the 10 years and earned 223 caps for the Force and have been fringe Wallabies.

The Force has had 13 home grown player in this period without counting John Welborn who finished his career at the Force. Early WA chaps are 48 - Kieran Longbottom and 49 Dane Haylett-Petty. Total capped players 133.

At times there has been an overly negative focus from some locally and East in Brett Papworth.

Not directly related to the Force but helped by their presence is that there is WA participation in the Women's 7's.

 

[wamberal]

Matt Hodgson was a very good club player in Sydney before he moved to the Force.

 

[Jets]

They really haven't been helped by their choice in coaches. Mitchell was good on paper but failed to deliver. Since then they've had Graham and Foley, both of whom have embraced negative gameplans at best.
I think they could have embraced a more local flavour too. A guy like Zac Holmes should have been embraced as a franchise player and given some time to grow in the role of 10 and built a team around him. Much like the Rebels have done with Debrisini (spelling).
I feel the would benefit with a coach like Brian Smith who had plenty of experience and an attacking mindset.
One thing they should be proud of is the sea of blue. From the outside it looks like WARU have embraced the fans, unlike the QRU have done with the reds fans in the past.


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[ChargerWA]

They really haven't been helped by their choice in coaches. Mitchell was good on paper but failed to deliver. Since then they've had Graham and Foley, both of whom have embraced negative gameplans at best.
I think they could have embraced a more local flavour too. A guy like Zac Holmes should have been embraced as a franchise player and given some time to grow in the role of 10 and built a team around him. Much like the Rebels have done with Debrisini (spelling).
I feel the would benefit with a coach like Brian Smith who had plenty of experience and an attacking mindset.
One thing they should be proud of is the sea of blue. From the outside it looks like WARU have embraced the fans, unlike the QRU have done with the reds fans in the past.


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To be fair though, most of our first choice picks to coach wouldn't come to the Force.

I'll never quite get my head around how we had no coach, the Tahs had Foley who they didn't want, we were both pursuing Cheika and we somehow ended up with the coach the Tahs didn't want in Foley and the Tahs ended up with Cheika, Coach of the year. There is probably no better example of why many of us Sandgropers feel we are the poor cousins in the ARU's interests for the game in Australia. And why would Cheika come, he could choose between coaching 1 incumbent Wallaby or half the team.

I've said it before and will say it again, the Force will never be a genuine prospect for success until the ARU implement a draft for Wallaby players to be evenly distributed across the Super franchises. We still have the situation where once Wallaby top ups are taken into account, teams like the Tahs have a player pool of the same size drawing more than double the wages of the Force player pool.

My long term feeling is the Force are unlikely to exist as a franchise in 10 years time unless they are bought to an even playing field in the ability to attract and retain talented players and coaches. Fan interest has significantly declined and will continue to unless they can find a way to be competitive. For a while the Force attracted interest as a novelty, something new in WA, but the lack of on field success has seen that dry up. The ARU unless it can find other revenue streams will eventually tire of propping the franchise up financially.

And yes, some good prospects have been found in the local player pool, but Rugby in WA is nothing more than a niche sport at its current size and for the foreseeable future will only be able to supply a small portion of the players required.

The only remedy to reverse the downward trend is the Western Force winning on the field.

 

[Jets]

The Cheika situation is a bit different. He was always going to coach the Tah's, in my view he had unfinished business from when he played in Sydney. I don't know what the answer is to secure a coach. Hopefully they get it right for the 2017 season.

I actually think the Force should have a larger cap that the other Aust teams. Call it a living away form home allowance or the like. The advantage that the Reds and the Tah's have with players, especially young locals, is that they can live at home for free and everything is easy for them. For a young guy to move across the country away from family and friends makes a move west less appealing. If you did the same thing for more money then it makes things a bit easier.

 

[Slim 293]

I've said it before and will say it again, the Force will never be a genuine prospect for success until the ARU implement a draft for Wallaby players to be evenly distributed across the Super franchises.

How the hell could you implement that?

It's just not possible............

 

[qwerty51]

If the Tahs had the results the Force did the game would be dead in Australia. It's all well and good to say the Force need better players spread to them but at what cost to the Reds and Tahs? If both of those teams have shit years the game is much more fucked than a poor Force team.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

And if the Force and Rebels didn't exist the game would be in a parlous state in this country, with huge numbers of players leaving for overseas opportunities. There have been some growing pains with the expansion but overall I can't see anything other than good coming from it.

 

[ChargerWA]

If the Tahs had the results the Force did the game would be dead in Australia. It's all well and good to say the Force need better players spread to them but at what cost to the Reds and Tahs? If both of those teams have shit years the game is much more fucked than a poor Force team.

Do you think the Western Force will exist in ten years time if nothing changes?

 

[ChargerWA]

If the Tahs had the results the Force did the game would be dead in Australia. It's all well and good to say the Force need better players spread to them but at what cost to the Reds and Tahs? If both of those teams have shit years the game is much more fucked than a poor Force team.

And the Tahs won the Super title and still barely anyone shows up. Do NSW fans even care if the Tahs play shit/well?

 

[ChargerWA]

How the hell could you implement that?

It's just not possible....

You make it sound like I've said we need to capture a black hole in a shoe box.

Of course it could be worked out, but the ARU would need to want to. Now there's the impossible part.

 

[Slim 293]

You make it sound like I've said we need to capture a black hole in a shoe box.

Of course it could be worked out, but the ARU would need to want to. Now there's the impossible part.

But how could a Wallaby draft possibly function?

It would be a logistical nightmare for everyone involved...........

 

[Jets]

You can't draft Wallabies to Super teams, punishes the teams for developing players. They need some help recruiting juniors then it's up to the club to develop these talents as best they can.