Bledisloe 2 - Saturday 25th August 2018 - Eden Park, Auckland

[Lorenzo]

Agree completely. Aus almost tried to play too much. NZ eat that shit up. Look at Ireland/Lions. That's how you do it. Take no chances, have no fun, zero entertainment, shit to watch, boring as fuck, just strangle the life out of the game and play the dull percentages for all 80 minutes.

Is this how you remember the 1998-2002 period for the wallabies? I understand you are an AB fan, but were these not exciting tests?

• Bledisloe 3 in 1998? One try a piece, Aus won 19-14.
• What about Bleisloe 2 in 1999? 28-7 (to Aus) but only one try a piece.

Over that 4 year period that is now so long ago, we averaged 22-20 against the ABs for an 8 and 3 record. The last 4 years? 18-34 for a 2-11-1 record. So yeah, our attack is off (by less than a meat pie) whilst we are shipping FOURTEEN points more a match.

Quite simply, we need to build a defence that doesn't fall off every second tackle that isn't from a set piece, and a kicking strategy that doesn't gift them 20 counterattack opportunities every match.

 

[young gun]

Both England and Ireland would put a better showing up against the all blacks atm. But that's because they won't try to play a crazy temo game and beat the all blacks at champagne rugby. They would slow it down and be more tactile. Something we probably need to look at.


we wont know until the end of the year, but neither of those teams will beat the All Blacks.

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

 

[TSR]

Beale is a fucking mirage. Rugby’s flat track bully.


Pocock must be dropped for a real no.8 as he and hooper cannot be on the field at the same time. I’m not talking about the merit of who is the better player, merely that with Hooper being first chosen (due to his five year contract if nothing else) you cannot play Pocock also.

And the coach? Well, it’s the same film every year

Whatever else happens, how in fucks name can you possibly argue to drop the guy who is head and shoulders our best player.

 

[Quick Hands]

You try someone else until results are satisfactory. Rinse and repeat. This isn't good enough, and we can't keep doing it because there isn't a sure thing coach available.

Even if you’re right, RA don’t have the money to pay him out let alone pay for another coach after doing so.

 

[Lorenzo]

We have suffered from an illusion for a while now that we are competitive with the ABs in helter skelter broken play rugby, and that therefore we should try to beat them at the 'up-tempo' game.

We aren't, and haven't been for a long time. Our best chance at a couple of victories in a row at the moment is to manage the game such that's slow, and as little rugby is played as possible. Now, I'm not saying Genia should wait 10 seconds for the D to reset before clearing the ruck, but we really need to revert to rugby basics.

1. Play the game in the oppo half at all costs. We haven't scored a 70metre try on NZ in a decade, so let's accept that it won't happen frequently enough for it to be a viable strategy.

2. Pick players that can defend as a priority.

3. Sacrifice kicking metres for genuine touch so that we can reset the D. Don't kick the pill down their throats.

4. Have the long kicker take the penalty kicks for touch.

5. Don't be afraid to slide the ball along the ground (esp when it's wet) when you are 40 out. A 5 metre lineout is immediate pressure even on the ABs.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

Actually BB must be relieved, Carlos will be his coach at the Canes next year, and he reckons he can help him improve!

".....and then, to cap off the legendary length of the field match-winning try, you take your sweet motherfucking time to jog over to the sideline to dot down, then casually tonk over the conversion to seal it then turn and smile at the Cantab crowd and give them a big go fuck yourselves middle finger. Here, now you try....."​

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[Gnostic]

Is this how you remember the 1998-2002 period for the wallabies? I understand you are an AB fan, but were these not exciting tests?

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• Bledisloe 3 in 1998? One try a piece, Aus won 19-14.
• What about Bleisloe 2 in 1999? 28-7 (to Aus) but only one try a piece.

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Over that 4 year period that is now so long ago, we averaged 22-20 against the ABs for an 8 and 3 record. The last 4 years? 18-34 for a 2-11-1 record. So yeah, our attack is off (by less than a meat pie) whilst we are shipping FOURTEEN points more a match.​

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Quite simply, we need to build a defence that doesn't fall off every second tackle that isn't from a set piece, and a kicking strategy that doesn't gift them 20 counterattack opportunities every match.​

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Agree to a large extent, but will point out the symmetry of the attack patterns between now and then. I honestly don't think it is that big a coincidence that Larkham is the attack coach and that is the pattern he was coached under with great success 20 years ago.

BIG difference is that in that side the special attacking players that brought the point of difference in Horan, Herbert/Little, Latham and Burke could all defend very well and had a world class and innovative (league structure in 1998 was a new thing) coach in Muggleton. Now we have a bloke who sets records for the most missed/ineffectual tackles in pro rugby at 12 and a structure that see tight 5 forwards isolated in the wings/centres with no support trying to take down two or three genuinely fast backs running good support lines.

I have seen on this thread people blaming Simmons for one of Barretts tries, but simply that is absolutely shite structure in defence and even worse the disgraceful hand tackle of Beale with the big flail around to show the coach he is putting in.

Honestly if you want to start to fix the defence, firstly sack Chieka and Grey - then start with the players, Beale is gone for good. Koriobete gone until he proves he can defend.

To fix the attack Larkham must also be gone, and forget flashy shit, how about running passing drills at speed. Then some kicking drills. Nothing else just that. Then the blokes can be sent away with the reminder that they turnup for work fit. That would be professional. Failure to meet standards results in breach of contract.

 

[Lorenzo]

Even if you’re right, RA don’t have the money to pay him out let alone pay for another coach after doing so.

They don't, but I didn't agree with the length of his contract in the first place.

 

[tragic]

Is this how you remember the 1998-2002 period for the wallabies? I understand you are an AB fan, but were these not exciting tests?

• Bledisloe 3 in 1998? One try a piece, Aus won 19-14.
• What about Bleisloe 2 in 1999? 28-7 (to Aus) but only one try a piece.

Over that 4 year period that is now so long ago, we averaged 22-20 against the ABs for an 8 and 3 record. The last 4 years? 18-34 for a 2-11-1 record. So yeah, our attack is off (by less than a meat pie) whilst we are shipping FOURTEEN points more a match.

Quite simply, we need to build a defence that doesn't fall off every second tackle that isn't from a set piece, and a kicking strategy that doesn't gift them 20 counterattack opportunities every match.

The games moved on since then.
Low scoring games where 1-2 tries is enough are uncommon.
Agree 100% our defence is substandard and needs a lot of work.
But 1-2 tries a game won't cut it either. Not against the top 3 sides.

 

[Quick Hands]

Christ, why has Foley been the cause of the 40 points against us? If we want to fix the problem we need to go further than this bullshit singling out one player. Maybe think about a general lack of skills across all Australian teams.

Indeed UTG. In fact I was listening to Steve Hansen being interviewed the other day. To paraphrase “what’s the secret to the AB game?” “We constantly work on the basic skills of the game and the core skills of each position. We can then play a running game a passing game or a kicking game according to the circumstances.”

Stuff I’ve been saying for years

 

[Dismal Pillock]

Agree completely. Aus almost tried to play too much. NZ eat that shit up. Look at Ireland/Lions. That's how you do it. Take no chances, have no fun, zero entertainment, shit to watch, boring as fuck, just strangle the life out of the game and play the dull percentages for all 80 minutes.

Is this how you remember the 1998-2002 period for the wallabies?

RANDOM EXTRAPOLATION ON SOMETHING I NEVER EVEN ALLUDED TO IN MY POST IS RANDOM

FFS

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[Lorenzo]

Agree to a large extent, but will point out the symmetry of the attack patterns between now and then. I honestly don't think it is that big a coincidence that Larkham is the attack coach and that is the pattern he was coached under with great success 20 years ago.

BIG difference is that in that side the special attacking players that brought the point of difference in Horan, Herbert/Little, Latham and Burke could all defend very well and had a world class and innovative (league structure in 1998 was a new thing) coach in Muggleton. Now we have a bloke who sets records for the most missed/ineffectual tackles in pro rugby at 12 and a structure that see tight 5 forwards isolated in the wings/centres with no support trying to take down two or three genuinely fast backs running good support lines.

I have seen on this thread people blaming Simmons for one of Barretts tries, but simply that is absolutely shite structure in defence and even worse the disgraceful hand tackle of Beale with the big flail around to show the coach he is putting in.

Honestly if you want to start to fix the defence, firstly sack Chieka and Grey - then start with the players, Beale is gone for good. Koriobete gone until he proves he can defend.

To fix the attack Larkham must also be gone, and forget flashy shit, how about running passing drills at speed. Then some kicking drills. Nothing else just that. Then the blokes can be sent away with the reminder that they turnup for work fit. That would be professional. Failure to meet standards results in breach of contract.

Can't like this post enough.

These guys would do well to pass the ball to where the receiver is going to be rather than where he is. How often do you see that at the moment?

Why is that Burke, Larkham and Latham were able to expertly kick the ball using the supposedly inferior torpedo punt, whilst right now with our supposedly superior drop punt, we can't find touch or grass? I know those guys were stars, but we are talking about basic skills.

 

[zer0]

Overall, I enjoyed that All Blacks performance. In particular the full frontal assault, Crusaders style, try to open the second half. Would like to see it used a bit more often.

The midfield was much more direct and confrontational than last week, with the obvious aim of wearing down the Wallabies backs. I'd say it was effective. But so too was the passing midfield of Lienert-Brown/Goodhue from Bledisloe I. As Goodhue's decade long tenure at centre has now begun*, I imagine second five will become a horses-for-courses situation where Laumape (maybe Williams) and Lienert-Brown (maybe Crotty) are rotated as needed.


*I consider the theoretical first choice midfield of Williams/Crotty to be just that. Theoretical. They're now both so injury prone that playing 30 minutes together would be considered an excellent result. Plus, you know, Goodhue is fantastic.

 

[Gnostic]

Maybe Castle and Co can calling him into the office and say outright, "look Michael thanks for trying but face the facts, you've got no F&^%$ing idea and that two numpties you hired, Larkham and Grey, you know the blokes living off playing achievements 20 odd years ago, are even worse.

Look mate seriously, you know we are broke, even worse now we gave your mate that 5 year deal for you, but shit, we can't do it any more. For the good of the game mate you three have to resign, do the honourable thing, for the good of the game. Mate we'll even join you in resigning, because we have no F%%$^ing idea either andthere nothing left for us to buy Bollinger with anyway."

 

[Lorenzo]

RANDOM EXTRAPOLATION ON SOMETHING I NEVER EVEN ALLUDED TO IN MY POST IS RANDOM

FFS

I was asking if you thought those tests were boring and dull.

 

[Up the Guts]

Overall, I enjoyed that All Blacks performance. In particular the full frontal assault, Crusaders style, try to open the second half. Would like to see it used a bit more often.

The midfield was much more direct and confrontational than last week, with the obvious aim of wearing down the Wallabies backs. I'd say it was effective. But so too was the passing midfield of Lienert-Brown/Goodhue from Bledisloe I. As Goodhue's decade long tenure at centre has now begun*, I imagine second five will become a horses-for-courses situation where Laumape (maybe Williams) and Lienert-Brown (maybe Crotty) are rotated as needed.


*I consider the theoretical first choice midfield of Williams/Crotty to be just that. Theoretical. They're now both so injury prone that playing 30 minutes together would be considered an excellent result. Plus, you know, Goodhue is fantastic.

Laumape has to be one of my favourite players too watch, so good at trucking it up through the middle. Best part is he's only 5'7", not some behemoth someone thought would look good in a jersey.

 

[Pfitzy]

Pretty much how I expected - particularly the armchair expertise here (well, that which I could be bothered to read on this page).

Its not Cheika. Its not Larkham. Its not Grey. Its not even the players. None of that can be improved, sorry to say.

The massive and ongoing systemtic failures in Australian rugby - driven mostly by a few nuffies who are limited in the top two inches - are going to keep producing a pyramid with a narrow base, and a lack of improvement.

Until that changes, we'll compete against most, fail continually against some, and fluke the odd victory against the ABs that reassures everyone that she'll be right.

 

[Gnostic]

Indeed UTG. In fact I was listening to Steve Hansen being interviewed the other day. To paraphrase “what’s the secret to the AB game?” “We constantly work on the basic skills of the game and the core skills of each position. We can then play a running game a passing game or a kicking game according to the circumstances.”



Stuff I’ve been saying for years

Our coaches do not believe that positions have core skills. Not just Chieka but previous coaches as well. How else would Folau continue to get selected at 15, with no effective kicking game. How did AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) get selected in the centres for years without being able to pass the ball. What about props not being able to scrummage, or 7's being selected at 6 or 8.

Core skills, who needs that shit...…...

 

[Gnostic]

Pretty much how I expected - particularly the armchair expertise here (well, that which I could be bothered to read on this page).



Its not Cheika. Its not Larkham. Its not Grey. Its not even the players. None of that can be improved, sorry to say.



The massive and ongoing systemtic failures in Australian rugby - driven mostly by a few nuffies who are limited in the top two inches - are going to keep producing a pyramid with a narrow base, and a lack of improvement.



Until that changes, we'll compete against most, fail continually against some, and fluke the odd victory against the ABs that reassures everyone that she'll be right.

Alright then why are we wasting money on paying these failures then. All of them. Just close up the Pro game altogether and distribute the remaining 2 bob to which ever charity is in vogue and leave the Pro stuff until such time as the skills are up to it. If they never are so be it, Club rugby (and I'm not talking about Shute or Premier level either) is actually doing pretty good (if always struggling financially and relying on the good old snag sanga).

 

[Joe Blow]

well, there's at least 2 people who should have the cards marked never again.

grey. koriobete.

I thought Koroibete was one our best.