RC4 - Australia v Argentina

[Rebels3]

RA has little control over SS for example, because RA decided to cut them loose. In one of life's great ironies, since RA ceased to be involved the SS has gone from strength to strength.

The essential flaw with the schools-based methodology employed by rugby is that schools aren't rugby academies, they are schools and they play the sports demanded by students and parents. No sporting body can tell schools what to do and schools are governed by a range of education legislation at state and national level.

They have never had them to cut them away, all they did was cut the funding which I guess funding would be the only way to make them accountable for different things (I don’t agree to the cutting btw). The ARU essentially supplements the different entities financially but there is no controlling stake in the partnerships, which is the flaw in the model. Essentially they could pull the funding as we have seen with the court decision to withdraw the Force from Super Rugby and that’s about all they can do to influence how rugby is run in the different regions. This is why we need a change in the model, the organization that makes the money is handing money to other entities that supply the resources but there is little to no controlling stake in how these resources are produced, it’s essentially someone sticking their hand out, you giving them money but you have no control over what they spend it on, or more importantly how they spend it.

I want everyone to had their keys in and let one controlling body rule the roost. This is what happens in NZ, Ire and Scot. People have to suck in their pride and give up control, if they don’t think RA is that right body then another body needs to be created to execute this, you’ll still have your sub-entities but their appointments will be made through consultation with the overarching body, etc. In Ireland Munster and Leinster made the brave decision to hand most of their power to the IRFU for the benefit of all, we have seen how this has turned out

 

[Kenny Powers]

It isn’t actually his job, his job is to propose a coaching template for people at all levels to implement, has 0 to do with structures etc. Now I’m not a fan of the fox old boys team, but you can clearly hear in his disappointment in the way Aus teams play when he does commentate. If he is the right man for this job or not time will tell, but any changes he makes is going to be missed by most of the current generation as it will probably take a generation to implement. The other issue is that if he does make changes it’s almost impossible to guarantee implementation as Rugby Australia has little control over NSW, QLD, Vic, WA, QLD prems, Shute Shield, School Boys because the constitution means these bodies are all essentially their own and make their own decisions

I think his role does have a lot to do with structure - the press release mentions the word 'centralised'. Coaching has a large part to do with structures, pathways and development nothing happens at any level of rugby without a coach. No doubt a difficult role but being part of the old boy network and part of the Canberra Mafia, (if not it's boss) means he is incapable of making these changes.

He should never have been picked for this role, do you think New Zealand would ever select a guy with such a limited time as a professional coach, no achievements to speak of when he was a professional coach and the last time they coached was over a decade ago?

The first step to improving Australian Rugby is to remove Rod Kafer from any involvement.


http://www.rugbyaustralia.com.au/Me...nted-to-National-Coach-Development-role.aspx]

 

[Dismal Pillock]

How good was Aus's first try, sweeping cutting backline precision reminscent of Hawker, Slack and Ella in their pomp.

Second one from Folau was pretty much alltime too. Although not exactly a joyous Mardi Gras moment from him at the death there, l0ll, Izzy at the Mardi Gras.

 

[Derpus]

So how many drinks should I have before I watch this game?

Buy a slab mate

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[Sir Arthur Higgins]

I think there is a reality issue here where rugby is the 4th choice football code in a country of 25 million people, with a developing culture of wrapping our kids in cotton wool. Rugby doesn’t have, and is never likely to have, a broad enough grass roots base to consistently produce top tier players or quality coaching staff. As an amateur code (and fledgling professional code) it was easier to mask this fact due to the overall standard of rugby being, well, amateur.

As a professional sport we are extremely unlikely to ever be able to consistently compete against larger nations (or NZ) where rugby has greater public support. Like most sports we play, we generally punch above our weight, but our historical standing as a top tier rugby nation is unlikely to continue as other nations continue to improve.

It speaks volumes to me that we have the two highest paid players in world rugby, yet are 7th in the rankings. That tells me that rugby is struggling desperately to paint a picture that australian rugby is a viable career for professional athletes, but in reality, only a select few will make a decent living out of it.

That said, I totally agree that the structure of RA has massive room for improvement which, if ever capably addressed, would help us get maximum value from the resources we have.


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Ireland evidence to th contrary. Spend big on a great coach (probably a kiwi) and tell RA to get their shit together.

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

I think he will quit

After that performance I think he should resign if RA wants him out.
If they can find a suitable replacement, they should

Bring back dingo as far as I’m concerned (won’t happen) but at least he was talking about “plying what’s in front of you” which this team seem to have no concept of.

The team is so inconsistent. At a minimum cheika and Co should be able to get consistent performances out of this squad. They cannot. That should be a minimum requirement for the coach. If he can’t the. I posit that the team does not buy into the plan

 

[Juan Cote]

I watched the game on replay this morning and ironically I think the Wallabies have played far worse in the past than last night.

Regardless, there’ll be no consequences for last nights loss and they same people will be in the same roles doing the same job and getting the same results at least until the next World Cup

 

[Trader Vic]

Ireland evidence to th contrary. Spend big on a great coach (probably a kiwi) and tell RA to get their shit together.

Yes, but I’d wager that Rugby isn’t the 4th choice football code in Ireland.


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[Lorenzo]

What if it is, we like to believe that we have good players but maybe we just dont have the skills, fitness, ability and coaching that is better than 7th best.

I would like us t be better but maybe the harsh reality is we just aren't that good.

For you to believe this, you need to believe that we have had a precipitous drop in all of those things in the last 3 years.

Australia has been plagued by structural weakness for the entirety of the pro game, yet we spent a considerable amount of time ranked 1,2,3 and literally no time below 5 before MC took over.

So which is more likely? That we got the coaching decision wrong, or that everything has crumbled around him in the last 3 years, despite all the inputs to the structures remaining basically as they have since 1996?

 

[Pass it to Dunning!]

To many Tahs,
Foley would have bombed the try if Izzy passed any way

Is this snark? Because it takes a lot of cognitive dissonance to blame the Tahs players when there were only two in the starting side.

 

[Up the Guts]

For you to believe this, you need to believe that we have had a precipitous drop in all of those things in the last 3 years.

Australia has been plagued by structural weakness for the entirety of the pro game, yet we spent a considerable amount of time ranked 1,2,3 and literally no time below 5 before MC took over.

So which is more likely? That we got the coaching decision wrong, or that everything has crumbled around him in the last 3 years, despite all the inputs to the structures remaining basically as they have since 1996?

Or maybe it's the fact that other nations have now got their structures together and we've been leaped frogged.

 

[Lorenzo]

OK, so which is more likely?

That in the last 3 years, 3 or 4 nations got their act together at the exact same time? I.e numerous independent events fell the same way during that period?

Or that we chose the wrong coach?

 

[wamberal]

Neither is more likely. On the other hand, how likely is that the Argentine team from five years ago would have stretched the ABs to the limit; in the process scoring some remarkable tries? How likely is it that Ireland from that era would have beaten the same ABs?


If it is all the coach's fault then we have no hope. Or, alternatively, we just keep on rotating head coaches until we find one with miraculous powers. For example, the power to teach Beale how not to drop a pass.


We lost to Samoa under Deans, apart from our loss to Tonga back in the old days, that is probably our lowest point.

 

[Lorenzo]

Or the balls to drop Beale from the team.

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

Yes, but I’d wager that Rugby isn’t the 4th choice football code in Ireland.


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Soccer, gaelic, hurling
If it’s not 4th it’s third and the population is way smaller

 

[Up the Guts]

OK, so which is more likely?

That in the last 3 years, 3 or 4 nations got their act together at the exact same time? I.e numerous independent events fell the same way during that period?

Or that we chose the wrong coach?

Our Super Rugby teams have gone downhill since the Waratahs won the comp, I guess that's because of the coach and not some larger underlying structural problems though.

And it's hardly like the events are independent, other nations have seen the benefits of a centralised structure and moved to follow suit.

 

[Lost]

Interested that it was the first time Puma’s had won here since 1983. They are a much better side now than in recent years and are holding there own in a tough comp Our team that day included M Ella(c), Campese, Hawker,Slack,Poidevin. Pretty sure they would all be preferred to the players we have today.

Doesn’t help but losses happen and teams go through difficult times. Our skill execution under pressure is very poor. The amount of dropped ball and poor options is not competitive at the level we are playing at. We can have the odd breakout and win periods of a game and look good but we do not convert enough periods of ascendancy to points. We bought in a skill coach in a Mick Byrnes who had been inside the NZ system as an attempt to bridge the gap and now have Kafer active working on the gap across the game apparently. Don’t know what the KPI’s are but the skills we display in games suggest it’s not working. If a NZ player failed to turn that last play last night would be interesting to see the reactions. The only conclusion that can be drawn is the Folau thought in that microsecond his best chance to score was on his own, not to trust his skill to draw and pass but rather run through 4 converging defenders.

Not sure trying to be NZ will help us beat NZ, we need to find a way that we own just as they did. Playing them less for a period may be a better plan. The negative reinforcement doesn’t seem to be helping us develop it only seems to focus us on ourselves and our short comings.




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[Sir Arthur Higgins]

Samoa was a woeful result but Samoa was bloody good that year and it was a second XV and giteau was atrocious and tuilagu murdered rod davies

I think some of
The early (have now been many) losses to Scotland were the worst.

 

[Lorenzo]

Our Super Rugby teams have gone downhill since the Waratahs won the comp, I guess that's because of the coach and not some larger underlying structural problems though.

And it's hardly like the events are independent, other nations have seen the benefits of a centralised structure and moved to follow suit.

So in your proposal to reboot everything, does Cheika survive?

 

[Up the Guts]

So in your proposal to reboot everything, does Cheika survive?

No, i just see him as a small part of a much wider problem.