RC4 - Australia v Argentina

[Lorenzo]

I would actually have no problem with that approach. The problem the powers would have with it is that it’s going to cost a lot of money and they’d need to be absolutely sure the chosen one is going to yield an improvement in results.

Are the selections that random? The main areas of dispute are the 10-12 axis where we literally have no other options. Watch the NRC games if you don’t believe me. Putting To'omua at 10 is no less random.

Tho other area is the back row where we have stacks of talent but no big fuckers. Again, going with your preferred options is merely tinkering around the edges.


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There's no way of being sure. It would be a gamble. But at least it would be a gamble. At the moment, our coach has had 3 post WC seasons to do his thing and we are at our worst in the pro era. What's the gamble he turns it around?

 

[KOB1987]

Evidence suggests that is in fact the case. Previous basket cases like Ireland and Scotland have actually improved dramatically. As have the Pumas.

The other thing is that Wales sit 3rd by virtue of a win over Sth Africa B in USA, a couple of wins against pre-Ledesma Argentina, and basically playing no tier 1 rugby. Scotland similar - they beat us a couple of times which catapulted up the rankings but lost to Fiji and USA. They haven't been able to get shuffled down because they've only played Argentina.

 

[Quick Hands]

The ARU have never had a controlling stake of the SRU. They simply supplied funds for a period of time, they have never had the ability to nominate who’s on the board, how the competition is run and how the clubs were set up. Now I think the aru should again supply funding so let’s get that straight. Those states you mentioned like the SRU also run their own ship. All entities from ARU, Nswru, sru etc. are equally at fault for the current state as they all only look after their owns needs, often at the expense of other areas, the whole system should be complementary of each other. It shouldn’t be an us vs them, that it clearly has now become. If the ARU/RA needs to be disbanded for the other parties to give up control, then I think we should all get onboard. We can’t have anymore situations where grassroots aren’t getting support they need but we also can’t have situations where grassroots doesn’t do what’s in the best interested of other competitions (Eg the first round NRC/grand final clash). Having each body independently looking after their own needs means that they will by in large look after their own needs.

Human history suggest that if people at or near the bottom feel involved in what's going on above, then they are far more likely to get on board. The dysfunction and disconnect is almost entirely of the ARU/RA's strategic making.

 

[Quick Hands]

And do you not give any credit to the national coaches and their assistants for those improvements? Or are they not responsible for the results there either?

If our coach is so hamstrung by the national structure and a lack of cattle, we could probably pay them less and give them shorter contracts.

Administration sets the context for success. In Ireland for example, the administration accepted the structure that the coach wanted.

 

[Derpus]

And do you not give any credit to the national coaches and their assistants for those improvements? Or are they not responsible for the results there either?

If our coach is so hamstrung by the national structure and a lack of cattle, we could probably pay them less and give them shorter contracts.

See my other post about coaching issues.

 

[KOB1987]

There's no way of being sure. It would be a gamble. But at least it would be a gamble. At the moment, our coach has had 3 post WC seasons to do his thing and we are at our worst in the pro era. What's the gamble he turns it around?

I think it should be tried and probably will be, but in fairness he can only take one gamble at a time and he likes to give them 2 games to prove themselves (exceptions such as Nabuli), and To'omua has just returned and has had 3 round the world trips in the last 4 weeks. Beale was this segment's gamble and we beat the Boks albeit in ugly fashion on the first appearance. I'm sure something else will appear on the away leg.

 

[tragic]

A lot of us queried this during the game. Reading between the lines - the priority was to get Foley out there to control the ship. Tick, no problem with that part. I think the plan was always to finish with 10. Foley, 12. Beale 15. Folau. Beale having a Barry forced his hand early. I think most agree though, it should have been Beale that was hooked, he was the one having a Barry, not To'omua. I think the commentators said To'omua had had 1 touch of the ball. That's probably why he looked surprised.

Combo's that haven't been tried this series:
10. Foley 12. To'omua
10. To'omua 12. Beale

Give them both a whirl I reckon.

10 foley 12 To'omua won’t solve anything. The problem hasn’t been Beale at 12.
It’s been foley at 10.
And Beale at 10 wasn’t the solution.
Trying To'omua at 10 has merit. TRC is a write off so time to experiment.
If it doesn’t work we know what foley 10 Beale 12 brings.

 

[Quick Hands]

There's no way of being sure. It would be a gamble. But at least it would be a gamble. At the moment, our coach has had 3 post WC seasons to do his thing and we are at our worst in the pro era. What's the gamble he turns it around?

He's not going to turn it around.

We should get through to the quarters because we have Wales, Georgia, Fiji and Uruguay in our pool. The only hope beyond that is that in tournament play teams can get momentum and results can go their way.

We should be planning for RWC 2023 not 2019.

 

[Quick Hands]

10 foley 12 To'omua won’t solve anything. The problem hasn’t been Beale at 12.
It’s been foley at 10.
And Beale at 10 wasn’t the solution.
Trying To'omua at 10 has merit. TRC is a write off so time to experiment.
If it doesn’t work we know what foley 10 Beale 12 brings.

To'omua has to start at 10 for the rest of the season

 

[KOB1987]

To'omua has to start at 10 for the rest of the season

What if it doesn't work any better than Beale at 10 after a game and half of it? I'm still haunted by the game against the Boks a couple of years ago where he kept kicking it straight down their throat. Maybe he's improved the relevant parts of his game but we were hoping Beale had as well.

 

[tragic]

What if it doesn't work any better than Beale at 10 after a game and half of it? I'm still haunted by the game against the Boks a couple of years ago where he kept kicking it straight down their throat. Maybe he's improved the relevant parts of his game but we were hoping Beale had as well.

Then at least the question is answered. The series is long gone anyway.

 

[KOB1987]

Then at least the question is answered. The series is long gone anyway.

I've no problem with trying it, what I was querying is whether to stick with it for the rest of the season if it clearly isn't working.

 

[KOB1987]

He's not going to turn it around.

He's referring to To'omua, not Cheika. I think.

 

[Joe Blow]

Beale is now playing without confidence. I would start Foley at 10 and To'omua at 12 with Beale coming on at 12 in the second half.

 

[tragic]

I've no problem with trying it, what I was querying is whether to stick with it for the rest of the season if it clearly isn't working.

That’s a tough question to answer.
Depends if it’s as shite as the Beale at 10 experiment, or just a little bit shite with potential.

 

[Lorenzo]

Lorenzo, the real problem, as highlighted by Augustin Pichot (World Rugby CEO) in stating that if something dramatic doesn't happen in the next 12 months International Test rugby will probably die, is that we are super duper fucking broke.

We cant afford to sack him. It's that simple. We have very little money and what little money we have is mismanaged (6 mil over 5 years for Hooper is looking increasingly ridiculous).

At this point i'm not too concerned about the week to week results i just want rugby to survive. It felt like a knife blow to the heart seeing how few people turned up to watch a test match last night. I love rugby and i don't want to see it go.

Changing coach would probably help but it won't save the game and we can't anyway. All the negative bullshit is helping nothing either. Attacking Tui, abusing the players? all the endless whinging and demands of perfection.

Fuck me, maybe we don't deserve rugby.

Holy shit, you moan about 'negative bullshit' whilst claiming the whole thing is totally fucked and there's fuck all we can do to fix it?

When are people going to get that those of us for a swift coaching change:

A) already understand that we have no national structure.
B) already understand we've no depth.
C) already understand that a) and b) aren't going to improve for a generation.
D) also think that the wallabies could perform better with Cheika and his assistants gone.

WE ARE the positive ones. You doom and gloom people that think everything is hopeless ARE the negative ones.

 

[Lorenzo]

He's referring to To'omua, not Cheika. I think.

MC. The gamble is changing coaches. Soz, could have been clearer.

 

[KOB1987]

MC. The gamble is changing coaches. Soz, could have been clearer.

OK got it. Was hard to see that in the context, can now.

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

What other coaches would be available if he was sacked?
Let’s assume money no option. Who would they get?
Vern Cotter? Who else?

After that game I wonder how different things would be if Ewan hadn’t had his hand in th cookie jar.

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

Also. I have no doubt that with a full strength side across the park, Aus have the cattle to win it all. I’m not comfortable that all the selections and strategy to do so are going to come
From the current set up.
How has the attack evolved with larkham as attack coach? How has defense evolved?
I’d be interested to see how we go with either TK or SK at 13.
Flyhalf a glaring unfillable hole at the moment tho. For my mind To'omua is the best 10 option. He seems to have improved drastically since a few years ago.