RC4 - Australia v Argentina

[The Red Baron]

There's lots of talk about the performance of our inside backs last night, but that neglects the fact that we took an absolute hammering up front. Forwards were going one out, and losing ground as a result. We're lucky we didn't get turned over more.

It's a constant problem the Wallabies have had for quite some time. Forward pods are frequently disorganised and don't set the platform required. That, and our support play is trash.

 

[A mutterer]

I agree with that. After all it is a game and these guys play it professionally because they want to be successful and they are selected by someone else.
On the flip side of this Tui situation it does illustrate the sense of entitlement that exists within Oz rugby. Here is a young bloke who has just recently come into the national setup and he is choosing to step down and take a break from the game. I understand that he has had a personal loss and whatever labour/bereavement law exists in this regard should be followed. However, he is employed by RA to play rugby for his country. If chosen in the squad he should tour, no questions asked unless he is clinically depressed or has other medical issues including mental health issues.
Being a young player in the test frame he should want to be selected and the fact that he wants to sit out the tour also reflects serious issues within the current national setup, most likely being coaching and attitude of the playing group in general.
BTW, I hope it was just a knee jerk reaction to that unfortunate incident and he does go ahead and tour.

normally i advocate playing the ball and not the man, but advocating he toughen up and turn up to work is seriously pants on head derp level.

entitlement?

take a break from the keyboard and your sanctimonious attitude.

 

[Tomikin]

So now its settled for the day which one of you guys is the bald head bastard trying to punch on a guy twice his size..



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[Joe Blow]

normally i advocate playing the ball and not the man, but advocating he toughen up and turn up to work is seriously pants on head derp level.

entitlement?

take a break from the keyboard and your sanctimonious attitude.

Maybe you are right about taking a break.
I did state within whatever official guidelines there are in place. I’m not judging him.

 

[Gnostic]

normally i advocate playing the ball and not the man, but advocating he toughen up and turn up to work is seriously pants on head derp level.



entitlement?



take a break from the keyboard and your sanctimonious attitude.

Nice way to try and close down the debate. Do you work for a living. Can you choose not to go to work for the next 3 months ('til Reds preseason) and still have the funds to pay for your accommodation and food? If so you are on the dole or employed in some fashion completely remote from 99% of people.

 

[Lyall]

I think he will quit

Maybe someone in the team should start spreading a rumour about some female staff member and the coach, send a few choice text messages to his team members and have a blow up on the plane back form say, Argentina. The said player would then be stood down. All you would need next was to have the captain of the team completely undermine the coach about the matter at the next available press conference and there you go, Bob's your auntie. On second thoughts, that could NEVER work..........

 

[KOB1987]

You can feel how divisive this is, even just amongst us who know best. You can only imagine what it's like in the playing group.

I reckon we're on press conference alert this week, won't be surprised if it comes to a head.

 

[TSR]

I have had several people who work for me (as in I am their boss - not their employer) suffer from various serious health concerns, including mental health issues.

Personally I have no problem with the ARU taking the approach that they should give Lukhan Tui time if that is what he needs. I understand that employment costs money and any organisation needs to get as much value as they can out of their employer but I personally doubt he will be able to consistently play at his best if he is struggling with other issues anyway.

I don’t really see much difference between this and picking him if he had a hamstring strain.

I do hope it is just a knee jerk from him - a very tough set of circumstances. I can understand why, in the moment, he might have said ‘stuff all this’.

 

[Namerican]

As others are saying, the backline is a bit of a mess. All of the players have some serious flaws in their game no matter what position you put them in. That said I can't see KB (Kurtley Beale) ever being a test level 10. He is far too helter skelter and has way too much time to muck things up. I prefer him when he is getting the ball at pace and making quick decisions, either as a strike runner or putting someone else through a gap. It leaves less time to move laterally or think too much. He's better when it is in the flow of play and he only has a small space to use his amazing agility to his advantage.

Personally when everyone is healthy I'd like to see:

10: Foley
12: To'omua
13: Kerevi
11/14: Beale or Folau and one of DHP or Korobiete
15: Folau or Beale

Subs: Hodge / one of DHP or Korobiete

Personally I think that lineup is better on defense, To'omua can do all the kicking, Kerevi gives some go forward, while Beale can still pop up here and there and be creative. Folau is Folau. Hodge is a great sub as he can play all over the place.

I think Foley brings a steadiness at 10 that others do not and his defense isn't as bad as advertised. His kicking though is brutal, which is where To'omua comes in. Beale doesn't improve the kicking when at 12 or 10.

 

[fatprop]

I will only make a couple of comments at the moment

1/ What a great coach Ledesmo is, takes over a under-performing super side, gets them working together. Then we see him start to do the same with the Pumas

2/ Get rid of Cheika? Sure for an upgrade, but there are very very few that would be an upgrade IMHO

3/ I have said it before and I will say it again, this isn't a good Wobs side, when they play above themselves they do OK, when they don't and revert to their norm, they aren't great. And the cupboard is bare, there isn't any saviors sitting in club land to change this overnight. Even the guys talking of coming back for O/S aren't that good

4/ While we have independence built into the ARU system, we will continue to have dispirit styles and attitudes the any Wobs coach has to meld. We don't have a commitment to style and approach. Watch a bit of the NZ Mitre 10 stuff and you see the lowest side committed to playing in the style of the ABs.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Without getting in to everything else, we have to get a hooker who can throw straight and accurately.

So many good opportunies scuttled so far this year just by that one skill error alone

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[wamberal]

Nice way to try and close down the debate. Do you work for a living. Can you choose not to go to work for the next 3 months ('til Reds preseason) and still have the funds to pay for your accommodation and food? If so you are on the dole or employed in some fashion completely remote from 99% of people.

Pro rugby players are employed in "a fashion completely remote from 99% of people". Nobody, but nobody, deserves to go through what Tui went through.


Give the kid a break. What sort of stresses were you exposed to as part of your employment when you were his age?

 

[Derpus]

So anyway.

How was Pete Samu playing exactly the same role as Hooper but worse.

Also Beale being horrendous at 10.

Feeling a little vindicated in a few of my opinions.

 

[Derpus]

There's lots of talk about the performance of our inside backs last night, but that neglects the fact that we took an absolute hammering up front. Forwards were going one out, and losing ground as a result. We're lucky we didn't get turned over more.

It's a constant problem the Wallabies have had for quite some time. Forward pods are frequently disorganised and don't set the platform required. That, and our support play is trash.

This was the biggest issue. Every break we made the player just became isolated. How do you expect to win a match when a player who finally makes some ground is alone? I actually thought we got over the gain line more this week than any of the past 5 or 6 games.

We also failed to finish a few that any half decent team would've slam dunked.

Finally, anyone who knows the laws better than me: Can an intentional knock-down go backwards and still be a penalty? That 'intercept' when Genia was trying to put i think Hodge away was no more than a slap, but as it went backwards was let go.

 

[barbarian]

There's lots of talk about the performance of our inside backs last night, but that neglects the fact that we took an absolute hammering up front. Forwards were going one out, and losing ground as a result. We're lucky we didn't get turned over more.
.

I actually disagree with this. I thought our forwards put in a pretty good shift against a committed Argentinian defence.

The set piece was solid bar a few lineout errors, and I noticed a definite rise in intensity from last week - players were actually running onto the ball!

It wasn't perfect (too many dropped balls, especially), but they gave the backs more than enough good ball to score 25+ points. I think we were badly let down by our 9-10-12 in attack.
.

 

[Up the Guts]

So anyway.

How was Pete Samu playing exactly the same role as Hooper but worse.

Also Beale being horrendous at 10.

Feeling a little vindicated in a few of my opinions.

Mr Sands has been quiet.

 

[Getwithme]

Anyone but Foley.

 

[The Red Baron]

I actually disagree with this. I thought our forwards put in a pretty good shift against a committed Argentinian defence.

The set piece was solid bar a few lineout errors, and I noticed a definite rise in intensity from last week - players were actually running onto the ball!

It wasn't perfect (too many dropped balls, especially), but they gave the backs more than enough good ball to score 25+ points. I think we were badly let down by our 9-10-12 in attack.
.

I see your point, and I agree that our set piece was quite solid. The issue I think is more in general play. I noticed long phases where we lost ground and were dominated in contact. Forwards were also taking too long to reset, which slowed us up as well.

The Argies competed well at the breakdown and suffocated our 'attack'.

 

[Dan54]

Finally, anyone who knows the laws better than me: Can an intentional knock-down go backwards and still be a penalty? That 'intercept' when Genia was trying to put i think Hodge away was no more than a slap, but as it went backwards was let go.

There is no law against intentional knock-down as such, there is only law for intentional knock-on, whether it up or down.

 

[Strewthcobber]

It's a bit more complicated than that (can you regather it legally under this definition?) but essentially, intentional knock back is fine

11.3 - A player must not intentionally knock the ball forward with hand or arm.