The Israel Folau saga

[KevinO]

 

[Adam84]

Idk, their CEO is gay and I'm a homophobe?

Well... that escalated quickly

 

[Gnostic]

I may have posted before, I can't remember, the main thing I object to is the absolute ineptness with which RA has handled this whole matter.

1) After the Beale farce and the multiple payouts required to sweep that under the carpet, RA did not make moves to renegotiate the CBA. We all know that RA is running close to broke, its there to see in the books. If RUPA would not deal break them by outright saying that no further contracts will be signed under the CBA as they are not in the interests of the game and are not sustainable. Current contracts would of course be honoured but no further contracts would be made. Given the numbers of players in their prime leaving this country and the numbers deciding that OS Club rugby is more attractive both in terms of money and in terms of culture and environment the loss of some over paid and underperforming spoilt "elites" is of no moment to me and I don't think it would effect performance that much (shit can't get much more shit).
2) Last year RA fully knowing Folau's extra curricular activities as a preacher of an orthodox conservative church they decided to sign him to a contract on close to record money without the ability to restrict the extent to which those aforementioned activities could effect the business of RA. They could try to plead ignorance, but that would be like a NAB banker giving evidence that they didn't know..... Oh right Clyne. It was there to be seen wilful blindness is not a defence and expecting the scorpion not to sting is just stupid.
3) When the twit tweeted what do RA do - lets hold a press conference, and call attention to the tweet, giving it a far deeper reach than it would otherwise have had, and lets cast in stone our position and what our intent is without "managing the situation" and working towards the outcome we want quietly and efficiently. If because of financial imperatives Folau had to be sacrificed so be it, do it, but FFS do it properly and not with a public execution before any sort of process, and then have the national coach and Captain, the state coach and also other players making comment. How about saying this matter is under advisement and process and nobody, REPEAT NOBODY, is to make any statement until such process is complete. What a bunch of amateurs you'd think they'd never run a successful business (oh that's right Clyne NAB and RBS and Castle - Bulldogs). FFS
4)How can an independent panel have a Union rep on it? How is that independent.

 

[formerflanker]

RA could lose their sponsors as a direct result of Izzy sharing his views,and he should be free of any censure for his actions?

Yep, that’s an exaggeration, but it appears everyone here is arguing at the extremes to make their point.

No-one has raised the issue of alternative sponsors.
We are all assuming that Australian rugby is so parlous that without the Qantas dollars we would be broke.
However, Qantas is still funding Oz rugby. That suggests a positive return for them.
If they withdrew their sponsorship, there may be others who see a similar benefit and be willing to step into the role of sponsor.

 

[Adam84]

No-one has raised the issue of alternative sponsors.
We are all assuming that Australian rugby is so parlous that without the Qantas dollars we would be broke.
However, Qantas is still funding Oz rugby. That suggests a positive return for them.
If they withdrew their sponsorship, there may be others who see a similar benefit and be willing to step into the role of sponsor.

ASICS and Land Rover, two major Wallaby sponsors with millions have also taken direct action to distance themselves from Folau

 

[formerflanker]

4)How can an independent panel have a Union rep on it? How is that independent.

The tribunal consisted of 3 people, 2 having vested positions and 1 independent.
"RA confirmed on Friday morning that John West QC (Quade Cooper) will chair the three person panel along with RA representative Kate Eastman SC and RUPA’s John Boultbee AM.
Both Rugby Australia and RUPA had to agree on the members of the panel."
(From Fox Sports)
RA and Izzy both had their own legal advisors present too.

 

[formerflanker]

ASICS and LandRover binned Folau as their ambassador, don’t know why you blokes are so caught up discussing QANTAS.

Because ASICS and LandRover binned the player.
Qantas has the power to bin the whole elite structure of Australian Rugby.

In other words, we act on the whims of a corporation. There be dragons.

 

[Slim 293]

If they withdrew their sponsorship, there may be others who see a similar benefit and be willing to step into the role of sponsor.

Potentially not, as most other major corporations who could match Qantas' sponsorship dollars share the same inclusive values.........

 

[Slim 293]

Nobody has been vilified. That would be targeting a person or group specifically with some sort of negative speech.

So, the exact thing that Folau did?

 

[Quick Hands]

ASICS and Land Rover, two major Wallaby sponsors with millions have also taken direct action to distance themselves from Folau

In 2017 the then ARU lost Buildcorp, BMW and Lion Nathan as major sponsors - none of them had anything to do with Folau. At least one was lost because of ARU incompetence.

 

[Quick Hands]

Because ASICS and LandRover binned the player.
Qantas has the power to bin the whole elite structure of Australian Rugby.

In other words, we act on the whims of a corporation. There be dragons.

And the CEO of Qantas has public stated that he expects RA to do something about Folau with the veiled threat of withdrawal of sponsorship.

The same CEO who does business with Middle Eastern despots which punish homosexuality with imprisonment or the death penalty. He provides very different standards as to who and what Qantas associates itself with - presumably on a commercial basis rather than a moral basis.

 

[Quick Hands]

No-one has raised the issue of alternative sponsors.
We are all assuming that Australian rugby is so parlous that without the Qantas dollars we would be broke.
However, Qantas is still funding Oz rugby. That suggests a positive return for them.
If they withdrew their sponsorship, there may be others who see a similar benefit and be willing to step into the role of sponsor.

Emirates?

 

[Adam84]

Because ASICS and LandRover binned the player.
Qantas has the power to bin the whole elite structure of Australian Rugby.

In other words, we act on the whims of a corporation. There be dragons.

ASICS and Land Rover both contribute $millions through sponsorship to Australian Rugby, not just through player endorsements

 

[Adam84]

And the CEO of Qantas has public stated that he expects RA to do something about Folau with the veiled threat of withdrawal of sponsorship.

The same CEO who does business with Middle Eastern despots which punish homosexuality with imprisonment or the death penalty. He provides very different standards as to who and what Qantas associates itself with - presumably on a commercial basis rather than a moral basis.

ASICS commented publicly as well, and Land Rover spoke with actions.
ASICS also have offices in the Middle East.
Land Rover also have dealerships in the Middle East.

yet we keep coming back to discussions about the QANTAS CEO...

 

[Samson]

Interesting that QANTAS is big on inclusiveness but does not include U in it's name.

 

[sidelineview]

I haven't quoted your whole post to save space. I broadly agree with you, but I don't think it's a question of sanitising it's more a question of putting things in a way which can get a message across in a positive way rather than a negative way.

As a thought, I wonder how many converts that Israel has attracted with these posts. It seems to me that the only people reading them are people who agree with him and people trying to catch him out on a post like the one that has caused the problem. I suspect that he could be a far more effective Christian evangelist if he adopted a different mode of delivery without altering the message. At the end of the day that's a question for him.

It may well be at the moment he's a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

You might be right. He may be the worst evangelist in history.

It would be good to wish it away, but no one can script what he believes and how he expresses it.
He's made that pretty clear.

 

[Quick Hands]

ASICS commented publicly as well, and Land Rover spoke with actions.. yet we keep coming back to discussions about the QANTAS CEO.

ASICS also have offices in the Middle East.
Land Rover likewise.

Because they call themselves the 'Qantas Wallabies' and have Qantas plastered across the front of the jersey.

 

[Adam84]

there is also an Asics logo on the front of the jersey, and Land Rover get plenty of branding and advertisement come match day.

Just seems a little hypocritical to be vilifying one brand, and going after a witch hunt against one of CEO's when they aren't the only sponsor to have spoken out about the issue or taken action on the issue.

If you have an issue with sponsor discussing the issue, and you identify hypocrisy in those sponsors having dealings in countries with poor human rights records, then surely it's the same standard for all the sponsors.

 

[sidelineview]

Telling players they must play on Sundays (against their religious beliefs) is not analogous to protecting the viability of RA.
They literally can not operate without these major sponsors.

Seriously, it’s not that hard not to be offensive.
But if it is, then he can’t be part of the organisation any more.

It's not that hard not to be offended either is it?

There's a great concern for the well being of young gay people, and rightfully so, but the Gay and Lesbian movement or LGBT community has grown in strength exponentially since the bad old days.

Now the Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras is televised and become almost family entertainment. I dont mean to be flippant about this but am I right to think there are easily accessible avenues for support and counselling for these young people now?

The thing is, no one can protect all people all the time.
No one can prevent people from being offensive or being offended all the time.

There's a great push in society to stop people being offensive but not to stop people being offended so easily.

Why would transgender female athletes be allowed to compete against biological females and have a distinct advantage?
Because they might be offended if denied entry?

The scales have tipped too far but thats how society has changed now.
In my opinion.

 

[Kenny Powers]

Is becoming an issue in the election, and painting Clyne & Castle into a corner. Also a business that operates with significant government concessions in a comfortable duopoly may receive receive a quiet word from both parties they don't want this as an issue in the last week of the election campaign.

https://www.smh.com.au/federal-elec...ent-to-religious-freedom-20190508-p51lgo.html