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COVID-19 Stuff Here

tragic

John Solomon (38)
I wasn't comparing our risk to anyone else, just stating that significant risk of clusters exists with a very low exposure rate so far, IF there are weak points in the system. Herd immunity is a furphy from what we are seeing worldwide, I agree. I accept we need to be moving on, but suspect a second lock-down will not be tolerated as well by the populace.

Fair enough.
I guess my argument was that even with a higher exposure rate and more community cases we would still be in much the same situation. I think the whole world is going to experience those clusters regardless of their degree of community exposure in the first wave.
The rest of your comment I agreed with entirely.
 

Kenny Powers

Ron Walden (29)

Lindommer

Steve Williams (59)
Staff member
The way forward now must be aggressive testing and contact tracing. There are 17 cases in ICUs Australia-wide as I type this, hopefully that will continue to drop. My wife works in IT at one of the major Sydney hospitals, they've completed a new building at breakneck speed and adapted it to receive COVID-19 cases, no patients. Thank God.

The worrying points for health authorities are the odd person testing positive here and there. I'm referring to the doctor at Nepean Hospital and the aged care nurses at Bodington Wentworth Falls, Hawthorn Grange in Victoria and recently, North Rockhampton; none of those cases spread further causing deaths. Then there's the sad case of Newmarch House in Penrith, which seems to've gone badly wrong on many levels. Add in the Cedar Meats site in Melbourne and the imperative of effective contact tracing becomes paramount.

That's why we all should download the COVIDSafe app; any concerns about privacy pale into insignificance if/when a positive case is confirmed in our vicinity. Let's not forget the data the banks and telcos already have on our behaviour and whereabouts, etc; the bits and pieces revealed on the app are chicken feed compared to what's out there from credit card usage and mobile phone tracking. I've downloaded it and turned off the location button.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
I wasn't comparing our risk to anyone else, just stating that significant risk of clusters exists with a very low exposure rate so far, IF there are weak points in the system. Herd immunity is a furphy from what we are seeing worldwide, I agree. I accept we need to be moving on, but suspect a second lock-down will not be tolerated as well by the populace.


I think we should be now focussing on protecting the at risk, much more support for those in nursing homes and those in the at risk categories whilst the rest of us learn to live with it

We closed the beaches, outdoor gyms and benches instead of putting protections, support and testing in place for those at risk
 

Lindommer

Steve Williams (59)
Staff member
We closed the beaches, outdoor gyms and benches instead of putting protections, support and testing in place for those at risk.

Hospitals have instituted extensive testing a fair while ago. Staff have mandatory testing if they're a bit off-colour allied with compulsory temperature checking on every entrance. All visitors, apart from two immediate family members, are banned.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
Hospitals have instituted extensive testing a fair while ago. Staff have mandatory testing if they're a bit off-colour allied with compulsory temperature checking on every entrance. All visitors, apart from two immediate family members, are banned.


And that made sense, but we should have been setting up those resources for nursing homes and setting up support structures for those at risk in the public
 

boyo

Mark Ella (57)
Okay, about the British response to coronavirus I don't think there's any doubt that they got caught flat-footed, hesitated about the right course of action to take, and took too long to lock down.

(How costly these mistakes actually were in terms of lives lost is probably debatable - after all, it was pretty much inevitable that London would get smashed no matter what the government did.)

But here's the proposed path out of lockdown from the article I posted a few days ago:

The proposals are to be split into five stages over the coming months, and a leaked version of the plan has suggested the first changes on Monday will see garden centres allowed to open and unlimited exercise allowed.
There will also be a return to sunbathing and picnics, more key workers' children will go back to school, staff will start returning to businesses that stayed open during the lockdown and open-air markets may reopen.
The second stage at the end of May will then see primary schools gradually return with smaller classes and some outdoor sports such as golf and tennis potentially resuming – possibly along with open-air swimming.
Premier League football could return behind closed doors towards the end of June, secondary schools will reopen before the summer holidays and outdoor gatherings of up to 30 people are expected to be allowed.
Cafes could also reopen, before pubs and restaurants follow towards the end of August – although it may take until October for all remaining areas of the economy including gyms to remove their shutters.
(https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...vid-19-lockdown-exit-plan-explained-full.html)


So, a gradual, phased opening that won't be fully in place until October. Five months away.
Does that really sound like the plan of an extremist, bloodthirsty government who's recklessly prioritising corporate greed over the lives of its own people?

As I said, I don't dispute that the Johnson government's made mistakes. But that sort of criticism is just a collection of unhinged, left-wing talking points that ignores the very real health consequences of extending an economic lockdown too long.

It's not unique to Britain, either. In America, Florida' Republican governor Ron DeSantis has been absolutely lambasted for allegedly not taking the pandemic seriously enough, while New York's Democratic governor Andrew Cuomo has been so widely praised that he's being talked about as a potential presidential contender (if Joe Biden has to pull out). Florida has so far recorded nine deaths per 100,000 people. New York's recorded 142 deaths per 100,000 people. (source: https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/05/our-nevermind-media/) Yet DeSantis is the villain and Cuomo's the hero, because politics.

It's also worth pointing out that Georgia, which eased up its restrictions a couple of weeks ago, has so far defied all predictions of a massive death spiral.

Now, I'm really not trying to politicise the pandemic. But it's so damn hard when certain media outlets - frankly, the left-wing ones - are seemingly determined to do just that.

Well, let's try this on for size. Maybe leaders who want to reopen the economy - whether that's Boris Johnson, Ron DeSantis, or anyone else - want to do it not because they're bad, greedy or incompetent people, but because they're sincerely trying to juggle more concerns than just one virus? And maybe - just maybe - lockdowns have a limited shelf-life of usefulness and there are better ways of mitigating the risk of the virus than keeping everyone cooped up indoors for an indefinite period?
1. No shit Sherlock; ideology over lives.
2. They belong to parties of business.
The Tory mishandling of the C.V. pandemic is criminal. Infection rates in England (health is devolved to Wales, to Scotland, and to Northern Ireland) have increased significantly since the Tories eased lock-down last weekend;. if they'd listened, instead of arrogantly ignoring what was obvious, they should have predicted this.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
1. No shit Sherlock; ideology over lives.
2. They belong to parties of business.
The Tory mishandling of the C.V. pandemic is criminal. Infection rates in England (health is devolved to Wales, to Scotland, and to Northern Ireland) have increased significantly since the Tories eased lock-down last weekend;. if they'd listened, instead of arrogantly ignoring what was obvious, they should have predicted this.


Infection rates aren't the real issue, they are a factor of more testing

The issue is the ICU capacity used and the effectiveness of new treatments that stop victims dying on ventilators
 

boyo

Mark Ella (57)
Dennis Atkins: Too many inconvenient truths for Morrison to uncomfortably deny

https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/national/2020/05/16/coronavirus-sports-rorts/

"It’s a remarkable feature of our Prime Minister’s political operating style that he is a natural and often willing truth slayer.
He can be asked to comment on something that everyone knows to be true and he’ll deny its veracity or existence without blinking."
"Most politicians lie whenever they are uncomfortable or caught in a tight spot. Few lie with the ease and casualness of Morrison."
"In one of the three Question Times of the week – when Morrison pushed back against anything he didn’t like by labelling it “point-scoring during a national crisis”"
That says that his delay in managing the C.V. pandemic was built on lies, not on the welfare of residents of Australia. Think on that.
 

boyo

Mark Ella (57)
Infection rates aren't the real issue, they are a factor of more testing

The issue is the ICU capacity used and the effectiveness of new treatments that stop victims dying on ventilators

Testing is something which the Tories are failing at epically.
They even let thousands of people fly in without testing them.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
Testing is something which the Tories are failing at epically.
They even let thousands of people fly in without testing them.


This thing is an non political issue, every real country f*cked this up, we let a cruise ship get through, the New York Mayor sent infected back the nursing homes etc etc they are all making it up as they go along
 

Aurelius

Ted Thorn (20)
This thing is an non political issue, every real country f*cked this up, we let a cruise ship get through, the New York Mayor sent infected back the nursing homes etc etc they are all making it up as they go along


Some of the most catastrophic decisions that have been taken appear to have been made by unelected bureaucrats, anyway. NHS officials sending COVID-positive patients to nursing homes without adequate safeguards in place. NSW Health letting Ruby Princess passengers disembark then letting them fly around the country. Who knows what else?

The lesson seems to be that when you're trying to guarantee everyone's safety, you just wind up taking your eye of the ball where it most matters.
 

Up the Guts

Steve Williams (59)
Italy are ditching their 14 day quarantine period for travellers from June. Looks like it is lock up the vulnerable and back to business as usual for everyone else, we’re all Stockholm now.
 
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