Where to for Super Rugby?

[waiopehu oldboy]

WoB that sounds like serious structural change along with history/IP/tribalism reset required. Do you think this would be a longer term plan, or nailed straight into 2021?

I like the thinking, noting that it is very bold. But it also waters down the comp to the point that surely the "quality of talent" issue aimed at Aus is pretty much flattened.

Take the 8 plus the Aus 5, and get a decent TT rolling.

Sounds like it's a quick & dirty fall-back option for 2021 if a five- or six-team SRAo is too hard a sell (possibly even designed to frighten the franchises into accepting a re-run of SRAo). As I understand it the PI-Heritage side would be a long-term addition to whatever ultimately evolves out of Super Rugby, Tasman etc would be re-absorbed by their traditional franchise.

 

[dru]

Sounds like it's a quick & dirty fall-back option for 2021 if a five- or six-team SRAo is too hard a sell (possibly even designed to frighten the franchises into accepting a re-run of SRAo). As I understand it the PI-Heritage side would be a long-term addition to whatever ultimately evolves out of Super Rugby, Tasman etc would be re-absorbed by their traditional franchise.

That whole devolving, then reabsorbing, etc - will prove more problematic than perhaps they are thinking clearly. When you make these changes there needs to be a longer term strategy and determinism to follow it through.

Much the reason that RA will not drop a team for 2021.

I'd imagine you are right with trying to guide the franchises in a direction. Pity, it would make a great base toward a TT as WCR has been saying.

 

[Brumby Runner]

^ similar article on rugbypass.com suggests they're targeting SRAo initially:

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/repo...or-a-sixth-new-zealand-super-rugby-franchise/

FWIW I've heard that if (& at this point it's a very big if) NZR do go 8-team domestic they'll retain the Blues; establish a PI-heritage team also in Auckland; split the Chiefs & Hurricanes into West (Waikato + Taranaki), East (BOP + Hawke's Bay) & South (Wellington + Manawatu); set Tasman up as a stand-alone alongside Crusaders; & retain Highlanders as is.

Wow. All this just because Hamish had the balls to stand up to NZRU. A man of action, our Hamish.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Xi Jingping isn't scrum coach?

Probably one of his official roles even if he never sets foot on a rugby field.

 

[Brumby Runner]

The BoP bid would likely be of similar standard to that of the Force and Drua. And if NZR goes with WB's post then they'll be very much at the level of those teams.

Must also be some doubt about split up Chiefs, Hurricanes and Crusaders being at the standard of the Blues, Highlanders and four Aus teams.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

^ PI-Heritage would take a chunk out've Loss Bleus & a two-into-three Tribe & 'canes split probably only requires an extra 10-15 players, most of whom would already be in someone's WTG. Bear in mind it's a potential one-time-only solution to what may yet not turn out to be a problem if the prospect of it causes the franchises to accept season two of SRAo.

 

[Pass it to Dunning!]

The problem with the Drua isn't talent, it's money. Half the population of Fiji lives on less that $25 a week. It's a poor country. It's also not a big country. The country can't sustain a profitable professional rugby team.

 

[dru]

The problem with the Drua isn't talent, it's money. Half the population of Fiji lives on less that $25 a week. It's a poor country. It's also not a big country. The country can't sustain a profitable professional rugby team.

Australia can't afford to fund it and I'm not sure NZ either.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Australia can't afford to fund it and I'm not sure NZ either.

It would require WR (World Rugby) to come to the party much as it has with the Drua in the NRC plus other sources. An alternative would be setting up a direct line from the Islands to an Australian based team. Not necessarily a PI team based in Australia but a 6th tea set up for Super Rugby Au.

I'm also still open to being more flexible with the timing of our domestic season and allowing for flexible contracting of talent. I'd have no issue with Aussie talent playing in Japan in the first half of the year if we get a SoU event set up involving both domestic and international based players. Tests in June/July. RC. And have Super Rugby Au later leading into the November window. Especially if we go with just the 6 teams.

 

[Adam84]

WR (World Rugby) have spent a fair chunk of spare change on bailing out unions like RA... I don't think they will has much money left over to spend on programs like the Drua for the next 4 years.

 

[Dan54]

Wow. All this just because Hamish had the balls to stand up to NZRU. A man of action, our Hamish.

You are joking aren't you BR? You really belive that someone has put up some stupid idea in a paper and it is because Hamish??

 

[Dan54]

The BoP bid would likely be of similar standard to that of the Force and Drua. And if NZR goes with WB's post then they'll be very much at the level of those teams.

I agree , but what BOP bid? The one that Twiggy is supposedly financing?

 

[Dan54]

Australia can't afford to fund it and I'm not sure NZ either.

And don't think Aus or NZ should have to dru.

 

[Dan54]

Sounds like it's a quick & dirty fall-back option for 2021 if a five- or six-team SRAo is too hard a sell (possibly even designed to frighten the franchises into accepting a re-run of SRAo). As I understand it the PI-Heritage side would be a long-term addition to whatever ultimately evolves out of Super Rugby, Tasman etc would be re-absorbed by their traditional franchise.

You really think there is even a thread of truth in it WOB? Form 4 complete teams for next year? I personally don't even think it would be used as a bargaining tool.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

^ comes from the same person who tipped me off re: the two-division, multi-conference S18 model no-one else saw coming & a few other things over the years so it's at least credible IMO, esp bearing in mind that there's at least two groups promoting a PI-heritage team, Tasman's CEO has declared that they're ready & able to put out a viable not-quite-Super Rugby team & now the talk of Twiggy & others bankrolling a BOP-based outfit. I'm not convinced that all three will get up but at least one needs to, I believe.

 

[Dan54]

I have heard the Tasman have been asked about their ability to set up for future Super, but no way would these things be done by next year even if they were being thought about. I think that would be obvious place if we wanted another super team, and if if a PI team was added, I think a 7 team comp would be pretty handy, just can't see them splitting Canes etc, means rebuilding whole fan base etc. Still pretty doubtful about the BOP rumour too and hope it not true, that is for Aussies sake, because if Twiggy is even looking at NZ it means he not committed to RA and that is not good going forward.

 

[dru]

because if Twiggy is even looking at NZ it means he not committed to RA and that is not good going forward.

Not so. At least not likely. He has a foot in both camps and well done. He is chasing an opportunity to keep good faith through the stronger elements that committed to GRR.

Anyway the time line moves forward.

 

[Dan54]

Not so. At least not likely. He has a foot in both camps and well done. He is chasing an opportunity to keep good faith through the stronger elements that committed to GRR.

Anyway the time line moves forward.

Yep I hope you right dru, it worries me if he has got a foot in both camps he may not be that committed to either completely. And if something happens that RA and NZR don't come to agreement it maybe easy to take Force away from Aus. I don't want or think it will happen, but if he hasn't already made it clear Force are sticking with RA going forward, I just feel better if he had no other temptations! As I said I not thinking that is case or anything, and I know he got plenty of coin, but I can't see him paying for a couple of teams is all.

 

[dru]

Yep I hope you right dru, it worries me if he has got a foot in both camps he may not be that committed to either completely. And if something happens that RA and NZR don't come to agreement it maybe easy to take Force away from Aus. I don't want or think it will happen, but if he hasn't already made it clear Force are sticking with RA going forward, I just feel better if he had no other temptations! As I said I not thinking that is case or anything, and I know he got plenty of coin, but I can't see him paying for a couple of teams is all.

Dan I think you are right in terms of Twiggy creating and holding onto his options. It is the difference between a sports administrator and a very good businessman. He will do what it takes to protect his position even if that is apparently contrary options. Here in Aus I have said for a long time: the only franchise pretty much guaranteed a berth, in whatever competition arises - is the Force. Very different position to the Clyne era.

Twiggy's options I think are:
1/ A slot at the table with RA and an option to join NZR as a fall back
2/ As above but with that fall back likely filled by a round up of GRR commitments and holding onto China relationships
3/ GRR

He'll be there one way or another and discussions about Force and their purported current competitiveness are utterly moot.

And whoever gets him, RA or NZR will thank their lucky stars that they managed the coup.

 

[ForceFan]

He'll be there one way or another and discussions about Force and their purported current competitiveness are utterly moot.

Since 2017, Andrew Forrest's rugby organisation has shown that it's a case of "whatever it takes to keep a professional playing group" in WA (with little help from RA).

I have no issues if the WF is the only team playing TT next year.

I'm with you Dan54 - one way or another they will pick the best/most viable option for 2021.
I would think that recruitment for next year is well advanced.