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Wallabies 2020

TSR

Mark Ella (57)
The biggest thing that could hinder McDermott getting selected is his complete lack of a box kick.

It definitely places more pressure on clearances knowing that the halfback will definitely be passing back to a player standing deeper. It's clearly not a dealbreaker. We've had halfbacks before who haven't had much of a box kick. It will come down to how important Rennie perceives it as being versus the other qualities McDermott brings over and above the other candidates.
He box kicked earlier in the year. His box kicking was good against the Brumbies in the first round of the Super Rugby proper. Not sure why he shelved it. Agree it is something he needs to work on and be able to deploy at test level. His passing does also need to improve.
 

Uh huh

Alfred Walker (16)
As for Lolesio, he played well for . 2 games then a grand final. Yes playing well in a finals counts for something, but so does playing consistently well week in week out, a player needs a body of work and Lolesio has none, had he played all of SRAU at that level then maybe you could justify picking him but he only played 2 games and a grand final. It's not SUPER hard to have one or two good games, it's quite possible Lolesio has a massive hole in his game that has yet to be exposed because he's just not played at that level.

Uhhh wut? Lolesio has nine starts for the Brumbies this year, eight wins and one away loss in NZ by a single point. Comfortably one of the Brumbies' best players all season and MOTM in the final.
 

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Uhhh wut? Lolesio has nine starts for the Brumbies this year, eight wins and one away loss in NZ by a single point. Comfortably one of the Brumbies' best players all season and MOTM in the final.


It should also be mentioned that Lolesio was awarded the MOTM in the two full games he played in Super Rugby Au, and was easily the best performing Aus flyhalf in Super Rugby earlier in the year.
 

Up the Guts

Steve Williams (59)
The only difference between Noah and other top performing rookies is that there’s a much greater premium placed on experience at 10, particularly in a Bledisloe in NZ. If he’s not selected and other youngsters are, it’s more a sign of the demands of the different positions than their relative performances in Super.
 

Uh huh

Alfred Walker (16)
The only difference between Noah and other top performing rookies is that there’s a much greater premium placed on experience at 10, particularly in a Bledisloe in NZ. If he’s not selected and other youngsters are, it’s more a sign of the demands of the different positions than their relative performances in Super.

Yeah I agree, and would rather put forward the capable but unspectacular To'omua or the flaky and generally useless O'Connor on that particular stage. I only really posted to stress the point that three and nine are different numbers.
 

Up the Guts

Steve Williams (59)
Yeah I agree, and would rather put forward the capable but unspectacular To'omua or the flaky and generally useless O'Connor on that particular stage. I only really posted to stress the point that three and nine are different numbers.
I didn’t realise the Brumbies were 8/9 with Lolesio, makes me think their slump in the second round of SuperAu was partly down to his absence. I’ll be interested to see how Rennie manages him, he will 100% start in the RC but does he get game time in NZ?
 

DPY91

Frank Row (1)
Because McReight, Willson and McDermott all have been in fairly imperious form -- McReight was more than double the next player in pilfers; Willson has been arguably our best ball-running option and undoubtedly our best option in the squad; and McDermott has been pretty unarguably the best halfback across the whole comp perhaps other players have had better patches of form or better at specific aspects of there game, but all in all McDermott is probably the best 9 in the comp.

Simone was far from our best 12 (To'omua, O'Connor and Hodge would all likely be ahead of him) - don't get me wrong he was good but he wasn't exceptional. No one watch the SRAU and said after games 'wow that Simone kid has gotta be in the Wallabies' McDermott did that after most his games. Being overly fair Simone is probably around the same level as Stewart and nether of them really set the world on fire. You even look at someone like Petaia not a lot of game time but in his limited involvement he's had a disproportionate impact on the games. Simone is a 'fine' player but he's just a fine player.


As for Lolesio, he played well for . 2 games then a grand final. Yes playing well in a finals counts for something, but so does playing consistently well week in week out, a player needs a body of work and Lolesio has none, had he played all of SRAU at that level then maybe you could justify picking him but he only played 2 games and a grand final. It's not SUPER hard to have one or two good games, it's quite possible Lolesio has a massive hole in his game that has yet to be exposed because he's just not played at that level. Beyond that what we saw from Lolesio IMO at least has him probably slightly below O'Connor but slightly above Harrison. But ultimately, we've not seen enough to pick him at 10 game one in New Zealand.

I'm all for getting our young kids some burn (you can look at my previous comments over the years I VERY much am), but I'm also for not throwing them to the wolves. Guys like McReight and Willson IMO have the tools to perform at test level. McDermott has been the form 9 of the comp week in week out. While Simone has been ho-hum and Lolesio just didn't play enough. I would love to see Lolesio maybe come off the bench game 1 or 2 and probably given the starting job against South Africa but he's not 'taken' the starting job he's not said 'this is mine' granted because he's not had the opportunity -- he's done well with what opportunity he has had but ultimately he's not done enough. Plus we'll also have to have a look at Harrison too.

Even Daugunu a player nether of us brought up, he was/is the top winger of the comp all year, Wright was fairly close in attack but was largely absent in defense and some of the things Daugunu did were exceptional but I could see either starting but IMO Daugunu really took that jersey.

I'm having flashbacks to the presidential debate.
 

Uh huh

Alfred Walker (16)
I didn’t realise the Brumbies were 8/9 with Lolesio, makes me think their slump in the second round of SuperAu was partly down to his absence. I’ll be interested to see how Rennie manages him, he will 100% start in the RC but does he get game time in NZ?


I would say it was almost entirely down to his absence. It's not a criticism of Kuenzle - it's rare for a rookie to be thrown into the top job and immediately excel - but the backline was completely rudderless as soon as he took over. Go back and read the comments on the matches the Brumbies played without him, it was all 'one trick ponies', 'no creativity' and such. Before Super Rugby was abandoned, the backline was absolutely humming.
 

Derpus

George Gregan (70)

Derpus

George Gregan (70)
Yeah I agree, and would rather put forward the capable but unspectacular To'omua or the flaky and generally useless O'Connor on that particular stage. I only really posted to stress the point that three and nine are different numbers.

To'omua at 10 was tried in the last few years and was pretty bloody average at test level. JOC (James O'Connor) is the safe option - I'd rather Lolesio have a baptism of fire.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
I would say it was almost entirely down to his absence. It's not a criticism of Kuenzle - it's rare for a rookie to be thrown into the top job and immediately excel - but the backline was completely rudderless as soon as he took over. Go back and read the comments on the matches the Brumbies played without him, it was all 'one trick ponies', 'no creativity' and such. Before Super Rugby was abandoned, the backline was absolutely humming.


The Brumbies were also 4 wins 2 losses with Kuenzle starting so the wheels hardly fell off.
 

Uh huh

Alfred Walker (16)
To'omua at 10 was tried in the last few years and was pretty bloody average at test level. JOC (James O'Connor) is the safe option - I'd rather Lolesio have a baptism of fire.


Yeah look I don't think there's a good option at 10. To'omua is - as you say - pretty average, and needs a really creative 12 (e.g. Lealiifano) alongside him (which I don't think is on the menu). I'm mystified by the confidence fans and pundits seem to have in O'Connor, whose previous attempts at flyhalf for the Wallabies have been disastrous. He's now played a truncated season for a hot-and-cold Reds team, been comprehensively outplayed in the final by a rookie playing his first game in six weeks, and he's viewed as the incumbent, safe option. I hope to be proven wrong but I have a sneaking suspicion he'll be dreadful. I'd still pick him for the All Blacks though; I don't want Lolesio to get used to losing just yet.
 

Uh huh

Alfred Walker (16)
The Brumbies were also 4 wins 2 losses with Kuenzle starting so the wheels hardly fell off.


Yep fair point, he had to learn on the job and improved quickly. The team also adapted quickly to a more forward-oriented approach to compensate, which is a credit to the coaching staff.
 

Zero_Cool

Arch Winning (36)
The to explained on what Guts has pointed out -- for a back rower you are one of three, and a center one of two, for flyhalf you are one of one. You can carry an under performing backrower or centers and it not kill you. Flyhalf is one of the most important positions on the field certainly the most pivotal. This is obviously because your 10 is a key decision maker, this means you need to know what they'll do under pressure how they'll respond to novel scenarios etc.
I think Lolesio has the potential to be an outstanding test player but let's also keep grounded he's played about a half a year of Super Rugby and even half of that was just SRAU, there is no way he's ready to run out at flyhalf against the All Blacks game one. But just think about all the other 'young flyhalves with potential' we've had, it's not an easy gig and frankly Australia in recent years hasn't been very good at producing them.

I'd be happy to see him perhaps come off the bench (although maybe the bench could be better used with a more proven player), or more likely given a go at the starting spot against the likely under-strength South Africa and/or Argentina; then base future decisions off those performance(s). I'd expect we will see Lolesio and Harrison both likely given a crack at least off the bench if not starting against the 'other two'.

Regardless how anyone thinks O'Connor has been useless for the Reds is well beyond my understanding the dude has a try assist every game, he's been a revelation for the Reds. O'Connor has been the form flyhalf in Australia to say he was/has been outplayed at any point this season is a pretty big call!
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
I'm mystified by the confidence fans and pundits seem to have in O'Connor, whose previous attempts at flyhalf for the Wallabies have been disastrous.


We're talking about 3 tests in 2013 (and one forgotten one in 2011).

I'd suggest it's so long ago it's irrelevant.

As a side note, the Wallabies won two of those four games.
 

Uh huh

Alfred Walker (16)
I didn't say O'Connor has been useless for the Reds, only that his previous performances at 10 for the Wallabies were dreadful, and that he was outplayed by a rookie in the SRAU final. I don't think either of these is a particularly controversial statement.

Look I hope I'm wrong, but I think he's probably going to suck at 10 for the Wallabies. He's still the least worst option.
 

Derpus

George Gregan (70)
There doesn't seem to be much else Lolesio can do to demonstrate he's ready for the jump - except to continue his form next year. He dominated the Chiefs in NZ, he dominated the SRAu final. And he only had one or two off games this year, from what i can recall.

He's also an excellent place kicker - something the Wallabies haven't had in ages.

I don't really buy into the whole 'losing mentality' thing. Even if it's real - these young guys had better learn how to lose to the All Blacks without it destroying their mental game. It's going to happen.
 

Up the Guts

Steve Williams (59)
I’m the least concerned I have been about the performance of the Wallaby 10 since 2015.

In fact, upon further reflection, you could probably extend this to almost every position bar hooker.
 

rodha

Dave Cowper (27)
Yeah look I don't think there's a good option at 10. To'omua is - as you say - pretty average, and needs a really creative 12 (e.g. Lealiifano) alongside him (which I don't think is on the menu). I'm mystified by the confidence fans and pundits seem to have in O'Connor, whose previous attempts at flyhalf for the Wallabies have been disastrous. He's now played a truncated season for a hot-and-cold Reds team, been comprehensively outplayed in the final by a rookie playing his first game in six weeks, and he's viewed as the incumbent, safe option. I hope to be proven wrong but I have a sneaking suspicion he'll be dreadful. I'd still pick him for the All Blacks though; I don't want Lolesio to get used to losing just yet.


We could endlessly discuss the merits of who Wallabies best option at 10 is, but at the end of the day you want your best players on the park and O'Conner needs to be on the field in some form.

At the moment with not many standout fullback options in Australia, I think he could best suited at 15 for the Wallabies. I watched the Super Rugby AU final and the thing that impressed me most about JOC (James O'Connor) was his hands and courage under the high-ball under pressure. He took at least 5 snares that definitely weren't easy.
 
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