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Reds 2021

Gillys_ghost

Dave Cowper (27)
I am wondering what value Flook has in the squad, i have literally never seen him play so im not having a crack at him. What is his actual potential? Is he a long term option or is he just making up squad numbers for a few years?
 

sunnyboys

Bob Loudon (25)
Flook played about 30 mins from memory before getting injured. Cant recall the opposition. He really stood out i thought. Looking forward to seeing more from him.
 

PhilClinton

Geoff Shaw (53)
I guess that was a huge blessing in disguise for us last year with Feao out for the season and Hooper largely injured as well. It forced Zander to be thrust into Super Rugby earlier than expected and allowed Nonggorr to understand what is required for him at Super Rugby.

Losing the last of the Smith twins was the biggest loss as I'd imagine Nonggorr needs to follow Taniela's development route of coming on in the last 10-20 minutes rather than start.


It will be interesting to see how Nonggorr develops in general. Taniela still has plenty of development left being young himself and was already playing 80mins in some games last year. Barring an injury to TT, the reserve tight heads will see limited game time in 2021 and likely for the next few seasons as currently there is daylight between TT and the reserves.

This is why a competition between Super Rugby and Club can be so vital. It's hard to see the proper development of a player who only gets on the field for 15mins every game and is clearly better at club level than his opposition.
 

RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
I am wondering what value Flook has in the squad, i have literally never seen him play so im not having a crack at him. What is his actual potential? Is he a long term option or is he just making up squad numbers for a few years?


he's pretty highly regarded and has some fairly handy credentials. Played premier grade whilst still at school too.

Flook captained the 2019 Australian Schools and U18s team in their tour to New Zealand, leading them to their first win in New Zealand since 2012. The teenager played alongside Brumbies playmaker Reesjan Pasitoa in the 2018 GPS premiership-winning Nudgee College GPS team as well. Flook plays mainly as an outside centre and was named Queensland's U19s player of the year in 2019.
 

Forcefield

Ken Catchpole (46)
See I see it differently. You need succession planning. Partly to be ready if TT ever departs (reckon French clubs would write him a blank check after the next RWC), in case he gets injured, to manage his workload and keep those developing guys getting bored.

Routs like the Reds v Force 2nd game last season should have seen the backup 3 (Nonggorr) get 20 minutes or more. Once you work out who the lame duck team(s) are for 2021, give someone else a start and run TT off the bench. You'd be crazy not to.
 

Adam84

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
I am wondering what value Flook has in the squad, i have literally never seen him play so im not having a crack at him. What is his actual potential? Is he a long term option or is he just making up squad numbers for a few years?

Flook is the most promising of all the new guys IMO, no flashy highlights like Mac Grealy but he is a smart and technically proficient rugby player, probably the most advanced in his development and likely to play this year. He isn’t going to start ahead of any of the current stars, but he will slot in easily if there’s any injuries.
 

Adam84

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
See I see it differently. You need succession planning. Partly to be ready if TT ever departs (reckon French clubs would write him a blank check after the next RWC), in case he gets injured, to manage his workload and keep those developing guys getting bored.

Routs like the Reds v Force 2nd game last season should have seen the backup 3 (Nonggorr) get 20 minutes or more. Once you work out who the lame duck team(s) are for 2021, give someone else a start and run TT off the bench. You'd be crazy not to.

2021 is a longer season as well with the TT straight after the Super Rugby AU GF, so players like Tupou will need to be managed better this year then last.
 

PhilClinton

Geoff Shaw (53)
Super Rugby AU is still only an 8 game (10 rounds, 2 byes) competition, can't exactly afford to be resting your stars too much as not much room to wiggle if you drop a few games.

RE Forcefields point - totally agree you need succession planning, hence why the NRC was so good for QLD rugby. Most of the dominant Reds scrummagers in the last few years played at least a season or two at that level.
 

TSR

Mark Ella (57)
There is an important balance here, but giving the test players extra time off seems to have worked extremely well for the NZ sides both in terms of developing depth and getting the best players peaking at the right time. Not much margin for error in an 8 game season though.

I did hear an interesting rumour over the holidays that neither Petaia nor Paisami wants to play 13 and, as such, Flook was in prime spot to benefit. It was a random discussion with a guy I’d met 30 minutes earlier. Absolutely no idea how much substance there is to it, how strongly Petaia & Paisami’s apparent aversion is and nor do I know have any clue how much Thorn would care on Paisami & Petaia’s feelings. In other words take it completely with a grain of salt. But I still found it interesting.
 

Adam84

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
Super Rugby AU is still only an 8 game (10 rounds, 2 byes) competition, can't exactly afford to be resting your stars too much as not much room to wiggle if you drop a few games.

RE Forcefields point - totally agree you need succession planning, hence why the NRC was so good for QLD rugby. Most of the dominant Reds scrummagers in the last few years played at least a season or two at that level.


I’m including Super Rugby TT tournament, there’s no break between the two so I think you need to look at them collectively. Australian teams could play up to 16 games in 2021 if they make the finals, and for the Reds they have a potential 9 games in a row without a Bye
 

TSR

Mark Ella (57)
Which is an excellent point.

Obviously Australian Teams want to win Super AU, but it’s extremely important teams prime themselves to give themselves the best shot in the TT part.
 

Adam84

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
Yeah, best chance to win Super Rugby TT is to not make the Australian GF IMO.
The two teams who play the GF will be at a significant physical fatigue disadvantage going into the TT series. From memory the kiwis have a 1 week break between the GF and TT starting.
 
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RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
There is an important balance here, but giving the test players extra time off seems to have worked extremely well for the NZ sides both in terms of developing depth and getting the best players peaking at the right time. Not much margin for error in an 8 game season though.

I did hear an interesting rumour over the holidays that neither Petaia nor Paisami wants to play 13 and, as such, Flook was in prime spot to benefit. It was a random discussion with a guy I’d met 30 minutes earlier. Absolutely no idea how much substance there is to it, how strongly Petaia & Paisami’s apparent aversion is and nor do I know have any clue how much Thorn would care on Paisami & Petaia’s feelings. In other words take it completely with a grain of salt. But I still found it interesting.

any suggestion where Petaia prefers to play?
 

PhilClinton

Geoff Shaw (53)
Yeah, best chance to win Super Rugby TT is to not make the Australian GF IMO.
The two teams who play the GF will be at a significant physical fatigue disadvantage going into the TT series. From memory the kiwis have a 1 week break between the GF and TT starting.


I think you're over estimating how fatigued these teams will be, they are professional athletes with regimented rest times and training protocols, 10 games isn't a whole lot. A standard QPR season including the finals is 20 games isn't it? And they're playing far less than that in Super Rugby AU and actually have proper S&C teams and recovery etc.

Otherwise if your goal is to win the TT Super Rugby tournament does that mean you rest your best players for the first 4 rounds of Super Rugby AU to keep them fresh for the back end?
 

RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
I think you're over estimating how fatigued these teams will be, they are professional athletes with regimented rest times and training protocols, 10 games isn't a whole lot. A standard QPR season including the finals is 20 games isn't it? And they're playing far less than that in Super Rugby AU and actually have proper S&C teams and recovery etc.

Otherwise if your goal is to win the TT Super Rugby tournament does that mean you rest your best players for the first 4 rounds of Super Rugby AU to keep them fresh for the back end?

depends if there is a bubble. I think we underestimate the mental fatigue of that environment and think it could explain the drop in form of the Wallabies last year, in particular Petaia.

We also saw it in the cricket test series whereby the Indians, having used 20 players, all looked fresh whilst the Aussies looked cooked.

If there is a bubble, I suspect mental fatigue will be a big consideration of coaches and their support team
 

Adam84

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
I think you're over estimating how fatigued these teams will be, they are professional athletes with regimented rest times and training protocols, 10 games isn't a whole lot. A standard QPR season including the finals is 20 games isn't it? And they're playing far less than that in Super Rugby AU and actually have proper S&C teams and recovery etc.

Otherwise if your goal is to win the TT Super Rugby tournament does that mean you rest your best players for the first 4 rounds of Super Rugby AU to keep them fresh for the back end?

If you’re going to compare then to QPR and what a player plays over the whole year, then you need to consider the extra 10-12 test matches the Wallabies will play(All Blacks are aiming for 15), plus the travel burdens of doing so. 2021 could be a 25-30 game long season for some of the Test players.

Not suggesting the rest players from Super Rugby AU to win the TT, just saying that the teams which play in the Australian GF will be have greater fatigue levels then the Aus teams who don’t reach them finals, or their kiwi counterparts who get a week off prior to the TT starting.

My point was that resting players and load management will be a greater emphasis in 2021 then it was in 2020, i cant see Tupou playing 80min games all season.
 
J

JeepsTragic

Guest
Is Tom Kibble finished? Has he retired? If so that is a shame. He had a couple of great seasons at jeeps before a head knock ruled him out of the 2019 final series but I heard he has had a couple of unsuccessful shoulder reconstructions during 2020. A year younger than McReight, Tom had a bright future so hopefully he can fight back.
 
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