TT Rd 2 2021: Reds vs Crusaders @ Suncorp Sat 22nd may 7:45pm

[Dan54]

You know Mo’unga can play well and Fraser can referee poorly at the same time, right?

Shock horror, Australian Rugby forum doesn’t praise foreign player all match.

Hell mate, I see it on plenty of forums including Kiwi ones, where it's easier to be negative blame the ref (or refs they work as a team) than a: give credit for good play or b: seem to be able to enjoy good play.

 

[Shiggins]

You lot have gone The Full Shiggins. Never go The Full Shiggins.

Mate. This weekend has been so bad. Hopfuly someone has time to go through the games and point out how one sided the refereeing was.

 

[Up the Guts]

Hell mate, I see it on plenty of forums including Kiwi ones, where it's easier to be negative blame the ref (or refs they work as a team) than a: give credit for good play or b: seem to be able to enjoy good play.

Criticising a ref for sending off the wrong player is not blaming them for the loss.

Out of interest, do you actually think Fraser refereed well?

 

[Derpus]

Hell mate, I see it on plenty of forums including Kiwi ones, where it's easier to be negative blame the ref (or refs they work as a team) than a: give credit for good play or b: seem to be able to enjoy good play.

What a load of shit. Obviously the kiwis are a mile better. Everyone on the planet knew that going in.

The refereeing incompetence is just another stain on an abortion of a comp. If this is the future of rugby it'll pretty much just be me alone bitching on a forum as the rest of the world watches actual competitions.

 

[dru]

What a load of shit. Obviously the kiwis are a mile better. Everyone on the planet knew that going in.

The refereeing incompetence is just another stain on an abortion of a comp. If this is the future of rugby it'll pretty much just be me alone bitching on a forum as the rest of the world watches actual competitions.

Before incompetence, Derpus, Super Ao refereed differently to Super Au. Yes I think our guys allowed a better game, but it's not the point. Before the incompetence is Kiwi teams being more familiar with the Kiwi refs and the Aussies getting hung. In part by not taking the opportunities that Kiwis get away with, and then not getting what the Kiwi ref is picky about. I found many advantage calls (and those not given) baffling. Bet the Reds did too.

After that the incompetence.

To be fair to a TT, the familiarity thing should wear down during the season and not have this impact. The baffling calls? Don't know what you do about that.

 

[Joe King]

Well done Crusaders. Just too good. Amazing team.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Refereeing has been quite poor all year, both here in Aus and in NZ. Berry, Murphy et al are no more competent than the NZ refs on show today or yesterday.

Just a matter of interest. Is Graham Cooper NZ or Aus? I had it in mind that he is from WA, and his accent sounded more Aus than NZ.

Reds problems tonight were exacerbated by having two or three backline players who really are not Super level, even though they are often described as being "guns".

The scrum was pretty much demolished as well which put McDermott and JOC (James O'Connor) under a lot of pressure. Probably the worst game by JOC (James O'Connor) since he switched to 10.

EDIT : Great to see Harry Wilson returning to form. I still think he would be better suited at 6 for the Wallabies especially with Valetini the form No 8 at present.

 

[dru]

The scrum was pretty much demolished as well which put McDermott and JOC (James O'Connor) under a lot of pressure.

Reds won 7 from 8 scrums.
Crusaders won 4 from 4.
It's a weird base for "demolished".

This is not the place for discussion about Valetini.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Highlights

 

[Dan54]

Criticising a ref for sending off the wrong player is not blaming them for the loss.

Out of interest, do you actually think Fraser refereed well?

I didn't think he reffed great or real badly, I didn't see any decisions he made that would have any bearing on the result, or even the score. I read plenty getting stuck into Berry after final a few weeks back too.
But then again I should of realised that a lot of posters were disappointed and were just venting anyway.

 

[Dan54]

Anyway on game, I have to say I was surprised how much the Crusaders won by.
It was a Richie Mounga masterclass, he was pretty reasonable. Probably the biggest surprise was how much Blackadder especially and Grace and Douglas made the Red's loosies their playthings, they were bloody good. The whole pack was on top actually. Think maybe the Crusaders were well up for it mentally as well as physically, and as Mounga said after game they decided to take it personal and get stuck in. Think Ennor looks to be starting to get back to ok. I think they would be reasonably content today.

 

[Dan54]

Just a matter of interest. Is Graham Cooper NZ or Aus? I had it in mind that he is from WA, and his accent sounded more Aus than NZ.

Seems he is BR, I didn't recognise him other night and wondered if he was new ref. I just asked google

 

[Oracle83]

Refereeing has been quite poor all year, both here in Aus and in NZ. Berry, Murphy et al are no more competent than the NZ refs on show today or yesterday.

Just a matter of interest. Is Graham Cooper NZ or Aus? I had it in mind that he is from WA, and his accent sounded more Aus than NZ.

Reds problems tonight were exacerbated by having two or three backline players who really are not Super level, even though they are often described as being "guns".

The scrum was pretty much demolished as well which put McDermott and JOC (James O'Connor) under a lot of pressure. Probably the worst game by JOC (James O'Connor) since he switched to 10.

EDIT : Great to see Harry Wilson returning to form. I still think he would be better suited at 6 for the Wallabies especially with Valetini the form No 8 at present.

Reds backline weaklinks, our line speed in defence and inability to counter theirs plus tight 5 had no urgency were our reasons for the loss not the Aussie ref.

 

[TSR]

I found it odd watching that - mainly because I am really disappointed with the Reds loss, but still enjoyed watching that simply because the Crusaders were brilliant.

I know it’s speculative, but I think they would have put 60 on anyone tonight. They were almost completely on point. Interesting listening to the Crusaders players and they were clearly very focused on making a statement and they did that.

The Reds have to execute better if they’re going to compete with these guys. Their defence got caught in no mans land too often and/or splitting as a unit where they got caught on the offload where the outside defender stayed out. I did like some of the intent in attack but there were 2-3 times when the Reds created space and put the pass behind the player. There was also a spot where the Reds had an enormous hole 5 meters wide of the ruck but they didn’t even look and threw the wide ball straight across where the space was.

Hopefully though the reaction from the Reds is - ‘that’s what we want to be’.

Despite the result I thought Wilson was excellent. I thought there were some other guys who had some really good involvements but the detail across the board was lacking.

Final note - it was nice to hear Cheika voice his support for Rugby Australia and the WC bid at the end. Whatever his performance as a coach he has impressed the hell out of me in his role as part of the commentary team.

 

[Drew]

I didn't think he reffed great or real badly, I didn't see any decisions he made that would have any bearing on the result, or even the score. I read plenty getting stuck into Berry after final a few weeks back too.
But then again I should of realised that a lot of posters were disappointed and were just venting anyway.

Without a doubt Crusaders dominated, they played with cohesion, every player contributing with or without the ball, they controlled the tempo of the game, forced the reds to pointlessly kick away possession through well organised defence and pressure at the breakdown. It was a faultless display. The referee, although it had no impact on the game or result, did have some head scratching moments. Telling Hegarty when questioning being penalised for a strip of a tackled player that “you wouldn’t have known” seemed odd, without the refs call of tackled how would he know in that situation? Getting the TMO to check a knock on in the lead up to a try disallowed by the TMO under penalty advantage was a waste of everyone’s time. The aforementioned binning of an open side flanker with headgear instead of a reserve prop without didn’t fill this non Reds supporting viewer with confidence. That being said, You could put the most hometown ref out there and the reds still would’ve been flogged.

 

[TSR]

Fraser’s rule on the Hegarty strip was right - and it’s not the first time I’ve seen it called. It’s just the way the rule is. If you are in the process of stripping the ball as the player gets his knee to the ground it’s a penalty.

It’s similiar to getting penalised when you get trapped in a ruck - you may not have done anything deliberately wrong, but it is still a penalty.

Whilst the catch by Reece was also correct. I find that rule stupid. I don’t understand why it was changed. You should have to both leave and land from the field of play. Well done by him though for knowing the rule and exploiting it.

 

[Dan54]

Fraser’s rule on the Hegarty strip was right - and it’s not the first time I’ve seen it called. It’s just the way the rule is. If you are in the process of stripping the ball as the player gets his knee to the ground it’s a penalty.

It’s similiar to getting penalised when you get trapped in a ruck - you may not have done anything deliberately wrong, but it is still a penalty.

Whilst the catch by Reece was also correct. I find that rule stupid. I don’t understand why it was changed. You should have to both leave and land from the field of play. Well done by him though for knowing the rule and exploiting it.

Yep TSR, I still not sure about that catch in touch etc, but I suppose the kickers have to be aware and make sure they kick well out to stop them doing it. Just seems a slightly strange law to me.

 

[Drew]

Fraser’s rule on the Hegarty strip was right - and it’s not the first time I’ve seen it called. It’s just the way the rule is. If you are in the process of stripping the ball as the player gets his knee to the ground it’s a penalty.

It’s similiar to getting penalised when you get trapped in a ruck - you may not have done anything deliberately wrong, but it is still a penalty.

Whilst the catch by Reece was also correct. I find that rule stupid. I don’t understand why it was changed. You should have to both leave and land from the field of play. Well done by him though for knowing the rule and exploiting it.

Fair enough on the Hegarty ruling. I didn’t mention the Reese catch as I knew that one and I agree it doesn’t add much to the game. I’m trying to figure out if it’d be possible to score a try from it. Probably unlikely and not a situation you’d coach or train for

 

[Up the Guts]

Fraser’s rule on the Hegarty strip was right - and it’s not the first time I’ve seen it called. It’s just the way the rule is. If you are in the process of stripping the ball as the player gets his knee to the ground it’s a penalty.

It’s similiar to getting penalised when you get trapped in a ruck - you may not have done anything deliberately wrong, but it is still a penalty.

Whilst the catch by Reece was also correct. I find that rule stupid. I don’t understand why it was changed. You should have to both leave and land from the field of play. Well done by him though for knowing the rule and exploiting it.

You want the referee to call tackle though, no? Very harsh to allow Hegarty to keep going with the action of stripping and then penalise him once he’s successfully stolen the ball.

 

[TSR]

You do when they can, but sometimes the offence occurs in a split second.

I only ref 7s, and it actually happens quite a bit there - the ball is stripped as the players knee touches the ground. It’s impossible to warn the person stripping the ball to release - but it is the rule.

Edit: if you think of it from the other perspective - to stop Hegarty stripping the ball the ref would have had to pre-empted the ball carriers knee touching the ground. Given that it only just did, that would have been very easy to get wrong.