Wallabies 2023

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Prob Isaac Fines but apparently doesn't want to be a wallaby a few have said. Kalani Thomas has looked okay & the Tahs seem to be fast tracking that young kid that went on the aus a tour to japan last yr (name has just escaped me)

Teddy Wilson. Could be good but so young it's hard to say.

Kalani is young as well but struggled in the U20s last year.

 

[Tomthumb]

McDermott's pass was clearly one of the biggest issues holding back his regular selection last season.

It is an area where Gordon is ahead.

Gordon certainly damaged his chances on that EOYT though with some pretty average play and some costly ill-discipline.

It's a bit of a blank slate now though with Jones coming in. I'd be highly surprised if White isn't still the clear first choice.

This fallacy that Jake Gordon is a good passer needs to stop. It's like calling Al Baxter a good scrumager

 

[Wallaby Man]

He was the only Wallaby to kick a 50/22 in the rugby championship, so to say he cant kick is an exaggeration. And I'd take Tate's pass over Gordon's every day of the week

I’m not a Tahs man but Gordon’s pass is comfortably ahead of Tate. To say otherwise is most likely QLD tinted glasses.

As for who said a no.9 doesn’t need to be good at kicking…. Are we seriously having this discussion in 2023?

Some silly comments at times.

Im a fan of Tate, but currently he’s scrum half equivalent of a TH that can’t scrum but is exceptional around the field or a hooker that can’t throw but plays like a 4th flanker.

 

[Wallaby Man]

This fallacy that Jake Gordon is a good passer needs to stop. It's like calling Al Baxter a good scrumager

Nobody saying good but he’s better than Tate at passing. Two things can be right at the same time.

I don’t think Isaac Fines is remotely close as well because has same issues as the others in core skills are underwhelming.

 

[Tomthumb]

Nobody saying good but he’s better than Tate at passing. Two things can be right at the same time

I'd argue that he isn't better (not a QLD supporter), but if your point is both are rubbish at passing but Gordon is slightly less rubbish and that is a real reason to keep picking him I cant help you

Tate is better at nearly everything else, the team plays better with him out there and the backline functions smoother. Add to that he doesn't get yellow carded every game and has more untapped potential than Mr Gordon. Tate should have been playing all last year. The musical chairs they employed helped no one

 

[Qldtragic]

Have you watched any rugby in the last twenty years?

It's an essential requirement for any international halfback...

keep following the herd.

 

[Braveheart81]

This fallacy that Jake Gordon is a good passer needs to stop. It's like calling Al Baxter a good scrumager

He's in between.

His passing is better than McDermott but not as good as White.

Who knows what Eddie Jones will do but it wasn't particularly surprising that Rennie didn't have McDermott clearly above Gordon despite you thinking their ability is drastically different. McDermott's game at test level is also lacking. He hasn't managed to assert himself as the second best option.

 

[Braveheart81]

keep following the herd.

The herd that is dominating World Rugby?

It would seem unwise to ignore a skill routinely performed best by the top two teams in World Rugby at the moment.

 

[LeCheese]

This fallacy that Jake Gordon is a good passer needs to stop. It's like calling Al Baxter a good scrumager

The pass itself may be marginally better (accuracy, velocity, etc.), but Gordon is much slower getting to and clearing balls from rucks imo.

Not having quick and decisive ball really dampens the Wallabies' most effective style of play. To my eyes it was the most noticeable difference when Gordon was subbed on/off.

 

[Qldtragic]

The herd that is dominating World Rugby?

It would seem unwise to ignore a skill routinely performed best by the top two teams in World Rugby at the moment.

why cant something different be deployed?
If we all have the same game plan it gets pretty boring - ie loss of interest then loss of revenue in the long term.

Some of the best coaches in the world know how to work with the strengths of the resources they have at their disposal.

 

[Tomthumb]

The herd that is dominating World Rugby?

It would seem unwise to ignore a skill routinely performed best by the top two teams in World Rugby at the moment.

While I agree the box kick is important to an extent, just trying to copy things the top teams do hasn't worked for us for the last 20 years

At a certain point you just need to play to the strengths of the players you have

 

[Slim 293]

I don't think it's some passing trend...

As Derpus has noted, it's become one of the most efficient ways of clearing the ball and is a required skillset for any international halfback in the modern game.

 

[Tomthumb]

I don't think it's some passing trend...

As Derpus has noted, it's become one of the most efficient ways of clearing the ball and is a required skillset for any international halfback in the modern game.

It's a skillset that can be developed, as seen by Aaron Smith, Faf, Gibson-Park etc.

Tate has the intangibles to develop, Gordon doesn't

 

[Wallaby Man]

The rush defense has meant the 10 kicking is under immense pressure (no accuracy) or having to kick 15m behind the gain line. Hence why the 9 now does the majority of the kicking.

Cheika did try and negate this by playing in the wider channels but teams were just giving us the space and making sure the guy who eventually received it was drastically behind the gainline. It ended up been fools Gold and often lead to a turn over in our own half.

A left foot and right foot 10-12/13 option is valuable now because of the release angle and the time saved if kicking on the correct side. Rush defense has caused many issues we have failed to contend with and were the last nation to revert to a kicking from 9 game.

 

[Braveheart81]

While I agree the box kick is important to an extent, just trying to copy things the top teams do hasn't worked for us for the last 20 years

At a certain point you just need to play to the strengths of the players you have

why cant something different be deployed?
If we all have the same game plan it gets pretty boring - ie loss of interest then loss of revenue in the long term.

Some of the best coaches in the world know how to work with the strengths of the resources they have at their disposal.

Of course you have to play to the strengths of the players you have but likewise, you might decide that certain skills and elements of a gameplan are essential.

It's hard to see a coach deciding that they don't want to box kick at all or that it isn't a necessary skill for a halfback.

It also isn't like the best halfbacks in World Rugby don't have complete skillsets including an excellent box kick.

 

[Tomthumb]

It also isn't like the best halfbacks in World Rugby don't have complete skillsets including an excellent box kick.

They didn't always have complete skillsets. Aaron Smith used to be terrible at box kicks, Faf wasnt as good at them either. Gibson-Park had to develop alot

These guys didn't just become great overnight, they were developed by good coaching and had good intangibles

 

[qwerty51]

Back to Eddie, everything I've read lately seems to suggest Eddie won't be the head coach beyond 2025 imo and not because he'll be sacked. Sounds like he'll go into a more high performance role within RA and oversee everything like Scott Johnson recently or Nucifora at IRFU. I'd say McKellar stays on as assistant to be the successor.

 

[Dctarget]

Back to Eddie, everything I've read lately seems to suggest Eddie won't be the head coach beyond 2025 imo and not because he'll be sacked. Sounds like he'll go into a more high performance role within Rugby Australia and oversee everything like Scott Johnson recently or Nucifora at IRFU. I'd say McKellar stays on as assistant to be the successor.

McLennan has said that they are keen for him to go through to 2029 if it all goes well.

 

[Marce]

‘More to it than money’: V’landys fires back at Jones’ interest in poaching NRL players

In a dig at the ball-in-play time in rugby union, Peter V’landys (the horse racing guy) said any player who switched codes, “can take their mobile phone with them on the field because they’ve got 20 minutes to tweet, Instagram or TikTok”.

www.smh.com.au

Well, and McLennan poked the bear - and got a response. Could V'Landys actually be worried enough about players coming back to rugby to make a comment?

V'Landys has a point. Too many box kicks in modern rugby. Actually, I don't think in the 70s/80s a scrum-half like Faf de Klerk could have played, he always kicks the ball away from the ruck and he's a top class cause the game has changed. In the 90s a top class scrum-halves had to run and pass the ball. Not any more

 

[qwerty51]

McLennan has said that they are keen for him to go through to 2029 if it all goes well.

Sure but as head coach? They've mentioned they want him to get involved in the women's program and help pathway development. I think Lions series as his swan-song and then coaches the women at their RWC later that year makes sense.