Australian Rugby / RA

[Jimmy_Crouch]

I forget who in history said this and its exact context, I think it was about a failed company.

If we ask the wrong questions, we get the wrong solution. The wrong solution will accelerate the decline.

In my very very very humble opinion today the question is why are our juniors so poor and why do we so poorly connect with younger people.

The questions we ask and problems we are trying to solve is those being asked by an aging mostly white male rusted fixed on fans. That is not where our future lies. We should be asking how do we connect to the young.

Puts on helmet and amour and at the risk of once again being accused of heresy. This is but a small example of many things they do, the MLS do connect to a young fan base in large part through their social media. Two vids both about 12 minutes long, and a few years old, its from a series called the Movement they did of over 50 similar such vids. This is how you connect to a fan base and drag people in.

The first vid is about Atlanta and the second is about what they call Soccer City. This is so different to what we are talking about but by the holy Mary it worked. Interesting they show little Football to sell Football. If interested have a look at it and understand it worked and been hugely successful/

Part of more campaign was a good one.

 

[half]

Part of more campaign was a good one.

Agree, but the entire series was brilliant from a marketing perspective, not much money to spend, first they identified markets demographics they wanted,.

Older fans want the big hits the great runs etc, there analysis said [and remember this was over ten years ago], Millennials don't watch TV and are not into subscription services either. What Millennials want is culture, what you do in the world, and they watch youtube and at the time emerging streaming providers, off the back of streaming E-Games.

I started to watch it from two points of view, first the host identifies an Aboriginal Australian, and second from a marketing business sense in how to connect to Millennials and today Gen Z as well.

My overall point I have been making over the last few weeks is rugby's player base for both quality and number of players is in urgent need of repair, and to do that we need to connect to Gen Z in particular. I put a couple of "The Movement" vids up to show first the difference in approach and second once made its out there.

I will give a couple more examples, the first is "Real Salt Lake", if you compare this to the Atlanta one its striking similar structure but totally different, and the second one is about getting black people into soccer. BTW black players in the MLS are know massively expanding .

As I said, these vids are simply examples of unbelievably successful promotions, in connecting to the young which is the demographic they identified they wanted. I am not suggesting rugby copy this but unless we connect in a far more meaningful manner in 10 or so years we could have continued the slide and be at a point of hockey today.

First Real Salt Lake, the the get blacks to play.

,

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

The questions we ask and problems we are trying to solve is those being asked by an aging mostly white male rusted fixed on fans. That is not where our future lies. We should be asking how do we connect to the young.

It doesn't help your cause to insult a group of people who support the game.

Puts on helmet and amour and at the risk of once again being accused of heresy. This is but a small example of many things they do, the MLS do connect to a young fan base in large part through their social media. Two vids both about 12 minutes long, and a few years old, its from a series called the Movement they did of over 50 similar such vids. This is how you connect to a fan base and drag people in.

I really do get tired of this passive aggressive approach of "oh don't shoot me everyone I'm only the messenger". Park that and focus on the addressing the issues. It's a recurring theme with your posts.

Many people here and elsewhere in the game in this country want to do something positive, because they love the sport, what it stands for and a community they want to be part of. I'm the same, and so is my teenage son who played the game at school. We've put our money where our mouth is and contributed to the funding of the game. Thousands of other people have too. So instead of relentless negativity let's be the change we want to see.

 

[half]

It doesn't help your cause to insult a group of people who support the game.



I really do get tired of this passive aggressive approach of "oh don't shoot me everyone I'm only the messenger". Park that and focus on the addressing the issues. It's a recurring theme with your posts.

Many people here and elsewhere in the game in this country want to do something positive, because they love the sport, what it stands for and a community they want to be part of. I'm the same, and so is my teenage son who played the game at school. We've put our money where our mouth is and contributed to the funding of the game. Thousands of other people have too. So instead of relentless negativity let's be the change we want to see.

It doesn't help your cause

Mate, how is stating a fact an insult. The point I am making is we are not connecting with Gen "Z", and copied from a US investment magazine direct quotes. Further if you want to expand rugby you need to connect to young people not cater or advertise to the already hard core rusted on.

Many people here and elsewhere in the game in this country want to do something positive,

HHHHMMM part of the reason I am passive about it is because of overreactions, what I posted is how to be positive to Gen Z and Millennials. From the business magazine where it explained issues with legacy leagues, and that Gen Z & Millennials had many other choices and that to remain the same would fail, we need to engage with the young in numbers. Many point to the MLS and their social media vids as excellent and I put them up to highlight how the MLS vids are light years different to legacy leagues traditional advertising. Take the NRL and their Tina Turner advertising, belting out high tempo rock with imagines of big hits, great tries etc to the MLS talking about culture, fans engagement, social issues etc.

Let me claim one small predication I made, and how it was yelled down and said to be negative, In the late 90's I pleaded Super Rugby was the start but only the start of a long journey and we needed a National Domestic Competition, at the time Rugby per game was the highest broadcast earner, the second best crowds and roughly a quarter of AFL revenue.

Today few would argue Super Rugby, has many issues and perhaps we should have changed some time ago. Today, I am saying unless we connect to the young we will finish up like hockey in about 10 to 12 years.

Its essential we develop ways to connect to the young or lets say from 40 down, especially from 20 down.

Side Note

Why use the MLS vids, first as the business mag and other business people in the US are saying the MLS has connected to people streaming and Gen Z & Millennials, second is because its so different to anything others are doing, third its been unbelievably successful.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

We have some deep historic issues we have never tried to fix, nor by many [often most] even acknowledge they were/ are an issue, and the chickens have come home to roost.

At the core, the base of the Rugby pyramid is the need for a large number of quality juniors, supported by high quality coaching. With the high quality coaching well spread and in many areas.

The now generally accepted view of Super Rugby [although its take a long time] is Super Rugby, has many flaws, not the least of which are the small number of teams and short season

Hop in Dr Who's Tardis, and go back to the say mid 90's to say mid 00's our national teams had it to themselves, today Netball, Basketball, League [in the SP], Football, Swimming, New forms of cricket, 'national women's sides in cricket and football. All these compete with rugby for media space, national loyalty, sponsorships and people willing to watch.

Over decades the importance of our national teams has over ridden all other decisions. The need for a National Domestic Competition ignored, and more importantly second and third tier competitions ignored, and also bled for Super Rugby.

Sport at its heart, needs a broad and well trained base, our junior competitions are pathic when compared to others.

Rugby, has an aging support base, and mostly male,

Rugby's engagement with the young is beyond poor, and in large part due to how poor junior competitions are, further added to by lack of meaningful domestic matches at division 1 professional, with second and third tier competitions sliding further behind.

Reading the Phil Waugh's article from June in the Fin Review to me he is not the person, he is to close to the past and those admins he has worked with.

IMO rugby needs someone from either AFL or football who understand how to run and develop junior competitions, as the pyramid base is essential to rugbies future.

Makes me think of the NBL. Basketball and Rugby have a lot of similarities in terms of a global game that we are good at but they work with limited professional resources in Australia. Basketball have built a competition that is travelling pretty well and considered a top competition in the world standard wise.

I know the Junior numbers are good along with senior participation competitively and socially . A lot can be put down to how far ahead the NBA is on social media and how marketable and clipable the sport is. The Boomers getting an Olympic medal would have helped also but the fact Boys & Girls play it equally is big part.

 

[Braveheart81]

HHHHMMM part of the reason I am passive about it is because of overreactions, what I posted is how to be positive to Gen Z and Millennials. From the business magazine where it explained issues with legacy leagues, and that Gen Z & Millennials had many other choices and that to remain the same would fail, we need to engage with the young in numbers. Many point to the MLS and their social media vids as excellent and I put them up to highlight how the MLS vids are light years different to legacy leagues traditional advertising. Take the NRL and their Tina Turner advertising, belting out high tempo rock with imagines of big hits, great tries etc to the MLS talking about culture, fans engagement, social issues etc.

Let me claim one small predication I made, and how it was yelled down and said to be negative, In the late 90's I pleaded Super Rugby was the start but only the start of a long journey and we needed a National Domestic Competition, at the time Rugby per game was the highest broadcast earner, the second best crowds and roughly a quarter of AFL revenue.

Why don't you compare and contrast what the MLS is doing in their social media content vs what Rugby Australia or the various Super Rugby teams are doing in theirs?

There's not really any point comparing current MLS content with rugby league promotions from the 80s.

I know there was a Tina Turner tribute this year but that is pretty relevant given how iconic that song was with the game and the fact that she recently died. It is not like rugby league has been running with similar content for 35 years.

 

[Braveheart81]

Makes me think of the NBL. Basketball and Rugby have a lot of similarities in terms of a global game that we are good at but they work with limited professional resources in Australia. Basketball have built a competition that is travelling pretty well and considered a top competition in the world standard wise.

I know the Junior numbers are good along with senior participation competitively and socially . A lot can be put down to how far ahead the NBA is on social media and how marketable and clipable the sport is. The Boomers getting an Olympic medal would have helped also but the fact Boys & Girls play it equally is big part.

Basketball is pretty much the best sport to get young kids into as fans. It is shorter and lends itself to flashing lights, music, fire, dancers and crowd participation.

It is way easier to keep kids engaged while they hopefully get an interest in the basketball compared to any other sport I've attended (with or without children).

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

It’s great fun with kids and it’s a sport anyone can have a go at.

Kings have had 14k & 18k to games so far this season and they have the misfortune of having to play at Homebush although with crowds like that there you can actually park.

 

[Derpus]

Not a lot of CTE either

 

[half]

Why don't you compare and contrast what the MLS is doing in their social media content vs what Rugby Australia or the various Super Rugby teams are doing in theirs?

There's not really any point comparing current MLS content with rugby league promotions from the 80s.

I know there was a Tina Turner tribute this year but that is pretty relevant given how iconic that song was with the game and the fact that she recently died. It is not like rugby league has been running with similar content for 35 years.

For the love of.... mate my point was Rugby is not connecting to the young and I used what I through was a good example of what others are saying is how to connect with the streaming generation.

The key point is not connecting with the young, I am sorry I used in your opinion a poor example of how to connect to the young. But totally ignore the substance of my point which is poor communication with the young.

Makes me think of the NBL. Basketball and Rugby have a lot of similarities in terms of a global game that we are good at but they work with limited professional resources in Australia. Basketball have built a competition that is travelling pretty well and considered a top competition in the world standard wise.

I know the Junior numbers are good along with senior participation competitively and socially . A lot can be put down to how far ahead the NBA is on social media and how marketable and clipable the sport is. The Boomers getting an Olympic medal would have helped also but the fact Boys & Girls play it equally is big part.

Basketball is the perfect Australian example of connecting with the young, on their knees a few years ago, going gang busters today.

It helps also they have second to football the largest player base, with today a number Australian players in the US system, and a number of high quality imports.

Let me in advance apologise, for pointing out rugby is struggling as are other legacy codes in connecting to young people. Let me reassure you all our Admins are fully conversant with the issue and will soon be recognised as the worlds leading experts in this area and we will all praise their competence, forward thinking, and brilliance in sports administration and marketing in connecting to the streaming generations.

 

[RugbyReg]

Let me in advance apologise, for pointing out rugby is struggling as are other legacy codes in connecting to young people. Let me reassure you all our Admins are fully conversant with the issue and will soon be recognised as the worlds leading experts in this area and we will all praise their competence, forward thinking, and brilliance in sports administration and marketing in connecting to the streaming generations.

Gees and you wonder why people here don't engage with your posts....

 

[LeCheese]

HHHHMMM part of the reason I am passive about it is because of overreactions, what I posted is how to be positive to Gen Z and Millennials. From the business magazine where it explained issues with legacy leagues, and that Gen Z & Millennials had many other choices and that to remain the same would fail, we need to engage with the young in numbers. Many point to the MLS and their social media vids as excellent and I put them up to highlight how the MLS vids are light years different to legacy leagues traditional advertising. Take the NRL and their Tina Turner advertising, belting out high tempo rock with imagines of big hits, great tries etc to the MLS talking about culture, fans engagement, social issues etc.

There might be better places to look for marketing tips targeting Gen Z than a business magazine

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

It doesn't help your cause

Mate, how is stating a fact an insult. The point I am making is we are not connecting with Gen "Z", and copied from a US investment magazine direct quotes. Further if you want to expand rugby you need to connect to young people not cater or advertise to the already hard core rusted on.

Oh do come on. You've clearly used the middle aged white men as a pejorative. I won't deny for one minute that there are some out of date attitudes present in the code, but there are plenty of others (me included) who are open to different ways of doing things. Give the people who love and fund the game some bloody credit.

Many people here and elsewhere in the game in this country want to do something positive,

HHHHMMM part of the reason I am passive about it is because of overreactions, what I posted is how to be positive to Gen Z and Millennials. From the business magazine where it explained issues with legacy leagues, and that Gen Z & Millennials had many other choices and that to remain the same would fail, we need to engage with the young in numbers. Many point to the MLS and their social media vids as excellent and I put them up to highlight how the MLS vids are light years different to legacy leagues traditional advertising. Take the NRL and their Tina Turner advertising, belting out high tempo rock with imagines of big hits, great tries etc to the MLS talking about culture, fans engagement, social issues etc.

There are always going to be naysayers and those who have a problem for every solution. I think what sometimes gets you push back from others in these parts is a long history of negativity towards the game in this country and frankly people get a little sick of it. The patronising attitude doesn't help either.

Let me claim one small predication I made, and how it was yelled down and said to be negative, In the late 90's I pleaded Super Rugby was the start but only the start of a long journey and we needed a National Domestic Competition, at the time Rugby per game was the highest broadcast earner, the second best crowds and roughly a quarter of AFL revenue.

On that we completely agree. As someone from WA, I would love nothing more than to see a strong national comp, even if it's below Super Rugby level. The fact that we've been unable to consistently stage a comp like the NRC (in part due to a lack of support in some quarters) is a source of great disappointment to me.

Today few would argue Super Rugby, has many issues and perhaps we should have changed some time ago. Today, I am saying unless we connect to the young we will finish up like hockey in about 10 to 12 years.

Its essential we develop ways to connect to the young or lets say from 40 down, especially from 20 down.

Again, I'm in agreement. I'm a massive proponent of club footy, because ultimately that's where it starts in all of sport. My son and daughter played club footy, cricket, netball - you name it. Driving up participation is foundational. That said, netball is in trouble and they're one of the highest participation sports in the country.

Side Note

Why use the MLS vids, first as the business mag and other business people in the US are saying the MLS has connected to people streaming and Gen Z & Millennials, second is because its so different to anything others are doing, third its been unbelievably successful.

 

[Braveheart81]

For the love of.... mate my point was Rugby is not connecting to the young and I used what I through was a good example of what others are saying is how to connect with the streaming generation.

The key point is not connecting with the young, I am sorry I used in your opinion a poor example of how to connect to the young. But totally ignore the substance of my point which is poor communication with the young.

I'm asking you for some analysis of why the content you are posting as good examples from other sports are working and why rugby is not.

Rugby Australia is putting out significant amounts of content on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, YouTube, TikTok etc. that falls into a bunch of different baskets such as highlights, interviews, outtakes, humor etc.

You keep saying that Rugby Australia need to connect with young people and we are in furious agreement that bringing in more young fans to the game is important and you keep saying that Rugby Australia need to do that via social media and they would argue that they are trying very hard to do that.

So what is wrong with their content? How do they improve it?

 

[half]

BH

Not arguing rugby is not trying. You ask can I point out where its failing or how it can be improved on what its doing now. Simple answer is its not working. How to improve I honestly don't know. However, posted some vids of what many consider an excellent series of how to connect to lets call them the streaming folk. Never suggested rugby should copy even said its near impossible for rugby to copy, but highlighted the differences in approach and these vids where obviously targeted at a specific demographic ... and BTW its not the only stuff they did...

The Brown H

I did say aging white male hard core rusted on, but not for the reasons you assumed. It was to highlight the thinking of this group of fans should not drive advertising budgets, as rugby needs to connect to the young, it does also need not to loose connect with the old, but from what I see I think the advertising towards the young reflets the thinking of the old.

The patronising attitude doesn't help, hhhhmmmm so simply cope what many posters post when they seem to be applying judgement to certain sections like the MLS example and ignoring the actual question posed i.e the importance of connecting to the young.

RR

Difficult to have it both ways, posts by folk who often claim all is OK, and then rather than debate the key issue will argue over the degree or you could have picked a better example.

All

Again, I pleaded from the late 90's to change our structures, like today and many times before, laughed at, yelled at, but most today if they could hop in the Tardis and go back they would change. Today I am saying the player quality, and number of players is falling to levels never dreamed about before. Add to this the demographic changes to parents sporting changes even in the private schools.

My predication today, is unless rugby learns how to connect to the streaming generation we are in a lot of trouble moving forward. I used some of the now years old MLS vids, and you could argue the best two Australian examples are Basketball [as Ghost pointed out] & 20 20 cricket.

Unlike back in the 90's, I said we needed a National Domestic Competition, I don't have nor can I offer any solution other than to say IMO its our biggest issue, and as I said before used the MLS vids as an example of totally different thinking and target demographic marketing.

 

[Wilson]

BH

Not arguing rugby is not trying. You ask can I point out where its failing or how it can be improved on what its doing now. Simple answer is its not working. How to improve I honestly don't know. However, posted some vids of what many consider an excellent series of how to connect to lets call them the streaming folk. Never suggested rugby should copy even said its near impossible for rugby to copy, but highlighted the differences in approach and these vids where obviously targeted at a specific demographic ... and BTW its not the only stuff they did...

How on earth did you highlight the difference in approach if you didn't (and still won't) talk about what rugby is doing in comparrison? Then you come in afterwards and say rugby shouldn't be copying it an apparently it's "near impossible for rugby to copy"?

At the end of the day if you can't frame it in the context of what rugby, and Australian rugby in particular, is or should be doing then I can't see how it's particularly relevant to this forum.

 

[RugbyReg]

All

Again, I pleaded from the late 90's to change our structures, like today and many times before, laughed at, yelled at, but most today if they could hop in the Tardis and go back they would change. Today I am saying the player quality, and number of players is falling to levels never dreamed about before. Add to this the demographic changes to parents sporting changes even in the private schools.

My predication today, is unless rugby learns how to connect to the streaming generation we are in a lot of trouble moving forward. I used some of the now years old MLS vids, and you could argue the best two Australian examples are Basketball [as Ghost pointed out] & 20 20 cricket.

Unlike back in the 90's, I said we needed a National Domestic Competition, I don't have nor can I offer any solution other than to say IMO its our biggest issue, and as I said before used the MLS vids as an example of totally different thinking and target demographic marketing.

mate you weren't Robinson Crusoe. It's the internet - most people have been complaining about aspects of rugby (structures, selections, jersey colours, referees, tv rights, sponsorship, freedom of speech, competition structure, corporate governance, stadiums etc) for years. It goes hand in hand with having an interest in the game.

 

[half]

How on earth did you highlight the difference in approach if you didn't (and still won't) talk about what rugby is doing in comparrison? Then you come in afterwards and say rugby shouldn't be copying it an apparently it's "near impossible for rugby to copy"?

At the end of the day if you can't frame it in the context of what rugby, and Australian rugby in particular, is or should be doing then I can't see how it's particularly relevant to this forum.

HHHHMMMMMmmmmm gee wizz mate, not sure whether to put this in caps and bold it and have it flashing red.

Let be as clear as I possibly can and I will post it line by line.

1] We have an issue connecting to the young and we have the oldest fan base.

2] For our survival we need the young to replace the old.

3} I said I don't know the answer.... repeat I don't know the answer... repeat I don't know the answer.

4] Whatever we are doing its not working, and I am no expert in what we are doing to connect to the young.

5A] From what I have seen, our advertising and promotions would appeal to the old existing fans.

5B] I posted some vids from a series of over 50 vids, said to excellent at connecting to the young.

5C] The business magazine and many US business folk are saying the MLS is the only legacy league that has connected to the young.

6] The reason for posting the MLS old vids was to highlight their approach,.

7] Given the MLS has succeed in connecting with the young, and Australian Rugby was not connecting with them, I believed it would be interesting, but apparently not as you what me to some how analysis a 12 to 15 minute youtube used as an example to AR facebook, twitter pages. Sorry mate well beyond my skill set.

As an aside, I am not an expert in any way shape or form to comment the effectives of online, I can however look at the outcomes. Simple Australian Rugby is not connecting I feel unqualified to either analysis what they do and offer expert advise.

The issue is Australian Rugby is not connecting with the streaming generations, IMO very very very very humble we should look at what has worked and maybe get some ques from it.

 

[half]

mate you weren't Robinson Crusoe. It's the internet - most people have been complaining about aspects of rugby (structures, selections, jersey colours, referees, tv rights, sponsorship, freedom of speech, competition structure, corporate governance, stadiums etc) for years. It goes hand in hand with having an interest in the game.

Well you must have read different posts to me, I struggle to think of many who expressed support until quite recently maybe some about 5 years ago.

My comment in that if we ask the wrong question we can the wrong solution, and from there the decline accelerates.

My belief is today our biggest issue by light years is connecting to the young. If we think the biggest issues is ensuring we beat the AB's is our biggest issue then we will put in place solution and ignore IMO the single biggest issue we have.

 

[Slim 293]

I'm just going to leave this here...

Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD)

People with narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) may appear arrogant, with an inflated self-image and disregard for the feelings of others.

www.healthdirect.gov.au