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Australian Rugby / RA

Dan54

Dan54

Tim Horan (67)
sunnyboys said:
You do know that the NPC is becoming less and less important to NZ pro rugby with each passing year? from nz contacts i've heard it is seen as a very very expensive development program which isnt delivering the players it once did. school to academies to under age national teams and onto super is the more likely pathway nowadays.
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I am glad that is getting less and less important to your mates sunnyboy, how many of them reside in NZ?
I can assure you it is developing players, very very few (if any) NZ youngsters go straight from academies to super rugby without NPC rugby experience.
Even in NPC now I can name a couple of players that are in tranistion stage to super and higher. I will throw in Noah Holtham, Fabiam Holland, Peter Lakai, Reuben Love, Harry Godfrey as young ones who are rounding off rugby learning with NPC, mostly a bit of super experience and still building their games in NPC playing with and against older experienced heads! Most of those are seen as future ABs.
 
Tomthumb

Tomthumb

Colin Windon (37)
Dan54 said:
I am glad that is getting less and less important to your mates sunnyboy, how many of them reside in NZ?
I can assure you it is developing players, very very few (if any) NZ youngsters go straight from academies to super rugby without NPC rugby experience.
Even in NPC now I can name a couple of players that are in tranistion stage to super and higher. I will throw in Noah Holtham, Fabiam Holland, Peter Lakai, Reuben Love, Harry Godfrey as young ones who are rounding off rugby learning with NPC, mostly a bit of super experience and still building their games in NPC playing with and against older experienced heads! Most of those are seen as future ABs.
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NPC is great as a development tool, but is a black hole financially, which is why NZR CEO said it wasn’t fit for purpose

Steve Tew decided way back when that the only thing that mattered in NZ was the all blacks and since then everything below that has suffered
 
redstragic

redstragic

Alan Cameron (40)
Bit disappointed if the Eddie stuff is true. Not because I want him to stay, but because the spin and bullshit is all so predictable.

Watching this team I love struggle while those responsible for the game in Oz do the usual PR kabuki is all so predictable.

You'd hope for lessons learnt and actual renewal and improvement but I suspect we'll just get more of the same.....and more spin about how the future is going to be awesome if we all just hang in there.
 
Pfitzy

Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
Tomthumb said:
True, but the argument being made is that Super Rugby somehow made Australia good at Rugby, which just isn't really true

And if Super Rugby is so good for Australian rugby, why have we reached our lowest ebb while playing in it?
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Because, like idiots, we still believe the development systems we built for amateur rugby will continue to stand up if we apply the lipstick of a few "pathways" squads to the whole shebang.

Meanwhile, our age systems are busy destroying each other and our club system is run out of a bunch of cowsheds and thinks it's the ducks nuts.
 
N

NoName

Herbert Moran (7)
Tomikin said:
What a load of bullshit, you have a problem with something I said in a different conversation, and you now taking a shot at anything I say. Hence the cool story bro.

You want us to drop teams, we dont want that... you just point to other people who are wrong as well. The only reason you want us to continue in super rugby, is because if we left NZ, you be fucked playing your 5 - 6 team comp with nowhere to grow, and you would end up in a hole.. Nothing to do with wanting a strong Wallabies.

Its the same argument all Kiwi's make, and it's all in self interest.
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At first glance that might seem the case, but I have a sneaking suspicion that NZ would do just fine by creating a NZ/Fiji/Samoa competition with extended reciprocal SA tours.

Australia would be the one that would be isolated and end up like Canadian rugby.

Rugby is NZ's game and it ain't going anywhere. Rugby is not our game.
 
Bullrush

Bullrush

John Hipwell (52)
Tomikin said:
What a load of bullshit, you have a problem with something I said in a different conversation, and you now taking a shot at anything I say. Hence the cool story bro.

You want us to drop teams, we dont want that... you just point to other people who are wrong as well. The only reason you want us to continue in super rugby, is because if we left NZ, you be fucked playing your 5 - 6 team comp with nowhere to grow, and you would end up in a hole.. Nothing to do with wanting a strong Wallabies.

Its the same argument all Kiwi's make, and it's all in self interest.
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Nice revisionist history.

I have stated a number of times that I'm not on the 'drop teams' bandwagon anymore because I've read the opinion of rugby experts who think that it's unnecessary. So you are either lying or just lacking in reading comprehension when you say

"You want us to drop teams, we dont want that... you just point to other people who are wrong as well."

This is after I just literally said
Bullrush said:
Personally, I've become rather indifferent to how many Super Rugby teams Australia has. After reading articles with Steve Anderson and David Nucifora who think that 5 teams are sustainable, I'm happy to listen to people who have way more experience and knowledge about these things.
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You have no idea what I want when it comes to rugby and I don't feel any need to, once again, try and prove that I'm not as....fearful of foreigners, let's say... as you appear to be with your hatred for Aotearoa rugby. I'm invested here.

I could easily claim that you want 5 Australian teams because it has made it easier for the Brumbies and if it went down to 3, there is no guarantee one of those clubs would be from Canberra. Indeed,
Tomikin said:
Nothing to do with wanting a strong Wallabies.

Its the same argument all Kiwi's Brumby fans make make, and it's all in self interest.
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You don't have anything close to a coherent, sensible way forward for rugby in Australia. Just an anti-NZ sentiment that hopes to drag the All Blacks down with the Wallabies.
 
Bullrush

Bullrush

John Hipwell (52)
HogansHeros said:
Take it down a notch.

I'm sure you're aware that no one is completely ruling out our teams ever playing NZ or other overseas clubs.

I have replied to you in the past, almost all the successful nationas also run a successful domestic comp along side an intermational comp. Currie Cup, T14, Premiership Rugby, your own NPC.

Australia is in a different position as we don't have a domestic comp but only an international comp, which currently we are struggling in.

I am genuinely interested what your idea is to get Aussie teams to perform better, for the good of Rugby in NZ and Aus, instead of just shitting on people who are trying to discuss the pros and cons of leaving super rugby.

It makes sense to me that using existing brands and building a domestic comp where Australian teams are competitive will sell better than a comp where Australian teams are currently not competitive. Might be a quick fix but I havent really heard anything else that adds up.
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I have never said that there shouldn't be a domestic comp or that Super Rugby should be the ONLY comp. In fact the opposite. I have repeatedly said Australia needs a strong domestic comp.

I wouldn't ask me how to get Aussie teams to perform better. I would ask experts, guys who have experience and a track record in doing this sort of thing. You want a quick fix....I'd prefer something that has a bit more substance.

The last two sentences on my post that got the reply "Cool story bro.." were

"But what those guys also stress is the coaching ability that has to improve in the grades below Super.

Perhaps the focus on how many Super Rugby teams Australia has is a little misguided and 'apple cart before the horse' type of thinking?"
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The guys I'm referring to are here:

https://www.theroar.com.au/2023/09/...ugby-and-the-brutal-warning-of-what-is-ahead/
 
shanky

shanky

Darby Loudon (17)
Members Section said:
Just imagine you worked your absolute behind off to save for your once in a lifetime holiday to a world cup only for the coach to treat it like his personal circus then 1st chance takes off
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Worse still, imagine you’re on the Bells/Shaw/Goldmans/Suisse junket and you now have to actually talk to hosts instead of crying off to watch the WBs in the footy.

<shudder>
 
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Derpus

Derpus

George Gregan (70)
HogansHeros said:
We may aswell shut down the forum. Leave it to the experts
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Yeah. As if the fans know what they want? The experts know what they really want. That's why rugby is going from strength to strength, selling out stadiums and raking in record TV deals.

All those fans calling for a local competition that has greater fan engagement and teams they can support and watch win occasionally? Pathetic moron cowards.
 
Bullrush

Bullrush

John Hipwell (52)
Derpus said:
Yeah. As if the fans know what they want? The experts know what they really want. That's why rugby is going from strength to strength, selling out stadiums and raking in record TV deals.

All those fans calling for a local competition that has greater fan engagement and teams they can support and watch win occasionally? Pathetic moron cowards.
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Yeah - what would Steve Anderson and David Nucifora know about those things huh? Look how unpopular and unprofitable Irish rugby is.

The fans don’t know want Australian Super Rugby teams beating Aotearoa teams and winning titles and producing great Wallabies who make it out of pool play.

We demand 3rd-tier quality rugby!!
 
shanky

shanky

Darby Loudon (17)
No offence but Nucifora ran high performance units at a time of sustained mediocre performance.

IMO, he’s the Anthony Siebold of rugby (i.e powerpoint king)

i’d rather listen to Poido in the corporate box. :)
 
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Tomikin

Tomikin

Simon Poidevin (60)
Bullrush said:
I have never said that there shouldn't be a domestic comp or that Super Rugby should be the ONLY comp. In fact the opposite. I have repeatedly said Australia needs a strong domestic comp.

I wouldn't ask me how to get Aussie teams to perform better. I would ask experts, guys who have experience and a track record in doing this sort of thing. You want a quick fix....I'd prefer something that has a bit more substance.

The last two sentences on my post that got the reply "Cool story bro.." were



The guys I'm referring to are here:

https://www.theroar.com.au/2023/09/...ugby-and-the-brutal-warning-of-what-is-ahead/
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What about the bull crap at the start of your post where you said it's not important for young people to have opportunities to play professional rugby and you don't care what they want.

Where you were patronizing and took your time to highlight text and bold... and act like a douchebag. That's why you got a cool story bro...

You told me I should read what others say I just told you what I'd prefer to watch and give more Australians an opportunity while having unpredictably of outcome.

And Super Rugby Au wasn't 3rd rate, it was much more interesting the SRP (Super Rugby Pacific). It got 25k the first year final and 40 K the next year..

I'm not against a European cup like comp were people qualify from Australia Japan South Africa.. and play for a cup.

What's your plan over then... Australia just get better... thanks Sherlock
 
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