Tomthumb
Colin Windon (37)
What type of coach do they respond to?
The one and only Wallaby Coach thread
- Thread starter Sully
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wamberal99
Syd Malcolm (24)
Muggleton brought a whole new world of defence to our game. Everybody has caught up now. Les Kiss had a lot of experience in rugby, right up from club level. Hodgson had none, from what I can gather.
I think a substantial part of it is that there just a lot of league coaches out there due to the size of the pro game in Australian and England.
Defence is also very translatable between the two sports.
The Great Dissenter
Frank Nicholson (4)
Correct re. Hodgson. Never played Union. He started as a kicking consultant with Sales Sharks and then must have bumped into EJ (Eddie Jones) in a bar somewhere in England.
The Great Dissenter
Frank Nicholson (4)
Thank you kindly. Led me to this article: https://www.world.rugby/news/569890
The Ghost of Raelene
Andrew Slack (58)
Was also as Union went into the complete professional era Rugby turned to our own backyard that had fully professional set ups and coaches. We got a head start on others.
We still have a lop sided view of their defence even though Rugby has evolved. Unfortunate by product of having the NRL as the premier league competition in our country.
We still have a lop sided view of their defence even though Rugby has evolved. Unfortunate by product of having the NRL as the premier league competition in our country.
Sword of Justice
Bill McLean (32)
I've always rankled at this, as:
- League ball runners have 10 metres of space every 'play'.
- there are fewer players on the field in League.
- the laws of rugby around the tackle are very different to League rules.
- in Rugby, the primary objective of a tackle is to create a new contest for possession at the breakdown. I guess the objective in League is to make the time in which your team gets the ball back sooner. This influences the way teams choose to defend and tackle significantly.
- By extension there are more players available to help a tackle be completed in League, as they know they'll get a break after.
- There's almost total certainty of the likelihood of a kick in League, further simplifying defending.
Given the above, in modern League, defenders are coached to never leave their tram tracks which is just not possible in Rugby.
The Ghost of Raelene
Andrew Slack (58)
It’s pretty common for Rugby defences to operate in vertical channels on the field and try not to get out of them. About fatigue management as much as anything.
One thing Rugby can definitely benefit from would be the wrestle and player manipulation. League has nailed this with the slower you can get the play the ball the more successful you’ll be,
One thing Rugby can definitely benefit from would be the wrestle and player manipulation. League has nailed this with the slower you can get the play the ball the more successful you’ll be,
Rob42
John Solomon (38)
Yes, but substantially different in rugby as most of the wrestling in league occurs after the ball carrier is on the ground, or at least has a knee down. Ireland has been successful with choke tackles for years, and even the Wallabies have caught up on that one, just not as good at it.
Sword of Justice
Bill McLean (32)
I don't think you could coach the wrestle anything like they do in League though. We have to release the tackled player immediately whilst in League they have to hold for several seconds. Agree though that effective wrestling done legally is extremely important to breakdown success.
The broader point though is that defence is so different between the two sports. Take PSD for example. If an edge forward only made 28 tackles in League he'd be dropped but in Rugby most players would have a heart attack by 20.
The broader point though is that defence is so different between the two sports. Take PSD for example. If an edge forward only made 28 tackles in League he'd be dropped but in Rugby most players would have a heart attack by 20.
The Ghost of Raelene
Andrew Slack (58)
Half our attempts end in a neck roll penalty. Srikes me as an S&C issue as much as anything.
stillmissit
Chilla Wilson (44)
Thank you, it's a great article and I couldn't find that. Although this article doesn't mention Muggleton it is a great read on that seminal period in Australian rugby. https://www.theroar.com.au/rugby-un...stralias-1999-rugby-world-cup-triumph-823310/
BTW McQueen's book gives plenty of the kudos to Muggleton.
stillmissit
Chilla Wilson (44)
That brings me to a point. A Kiwi I know mentioned that we were not fit enough. They heard Robbie Deans make the same observation that the Wallaby players were not prepared to go to extreme lengths to improve their fitness. The 99 Wallabies scored most points in the 2nd half as they were fitter than most of their opponents.
stillmissit
Chilla Wilson (44)
Ghost, one thing I have never understood with the Wallabies in the last 20 years, is that they play an average game for roughly 65mins, and then, when the game is lost, they are suddenly all over the pitch and attacking the breakdown.
Any ideas?
The Ghost of Raelene
Andrew Slack (58)
How many times have we seen them concede in the last 10 of each half?
General fitness is one part but the amount of meaningful games is the other. Mentally our players seem to blink first under the pressure. I don’t think we have inferior athletes it’s just the ability sustain a plan or believe in it as well.
General fitness is one part but the amount of meaningful games is the other. Mentally our players seem to blink first under the pressure. I don’t think we have inferior athletes it’s just the ability sustain a plan or believe in it as well.
stillmissit
Chilla Wilson (44)
Agree with that Ghost. I wonder who controls the team when the going gets tough and then, what happens to bring about a 'turn in the tide'. It used to be the captain who drove that but with captains not always there for 80 I wonder what the game plan is to accept pressure and then apply it?
They're not trying to do the same thing in each sport but the fundamental concepts are broadly the same.
It is also a far larger focus in rugby league given there are just less things to train so there are more coaches with more detailed experience of coaching defence.
No league defence coaches are trying to do exactly the same thing in rugby.
Tomikin
Simon Poidevin (60)
They do
Sir Arthur Higgins
Alan Cameron (40)
Weird. My actual comment got cut off. I didn’t say I don’t think so
I had typed but seemingly deleted, I don’t think they get behind winning rugby beyond the die bards of the game when it’s played like that.
Casual fans who don’t really watch will be excited the wallabies are good again but how many new admirers of the game did the brumbies bring in?
I would be pleased to be winning but gees I’d struggle to watch Jake ball if that’s what he produced. It was dire early 2000s stuff. I’d want to see his game plans have evolved beyond that vs a pig headed stuck in mud approach that doesn’t change.
I get the thought re him but I’d like to think we can do better tho I’m less and less sure.
PhilClinton
Geoff Shaw (53)
Has there been an indication he hasn’t evolved? Or are you just assuming that based on his previous style?
I actually think White is the kind of coach the Wallabies and rugby media need right now.
Eddie was a clown, we don’t need that showmanship and jamming it up with reporters. I feel like Cheika whilst not being as heavy handed would provided a similar media presence and that will wear thin quickly on the fan’s particularly if we aren’t winning.
White’s demeanour is much more measured.