Who should be the next ARU CEO?

[whatever]

I still have my doubts about Hawker from his days as CEO of the NRMA.

 

[Quick Hands]

I don't think the goal of the 3rd T should be to convert the entire population to rugby. That's more the role of Super Rugby and the RC. The role of the 3rd T needs to be to develop depth and bridge the gap from club to Super Rugby.

I think you're suggestion of hybrid model could work pretty well BTW!

I just don't think "meaningless franchises" is such a problem if the role of the 3rd T is mainly to produce depth. It just needs to be finically viable.

Converting the entire population was a flippant comment by me, which wasn't meant to mean that 3rd tier was meant to do that. It was made in context of the previous disastrous attempt by ARU to start one.

Players lift when there is a parochial crowd behind them and they feel that they are part of an ongoing tradition, which I why I think it's important to use exisiting teams/clubs.

 

[Dave Beat]

Re 3: We need to decide on a model, i.e. what type of 3rd tier. The French Top 14 model of a season long competition or a SAF/NZ model tacked on the end of the season or even a hybrid of the 2. What we shouldn't do is create meaningless franchises and stick them in a place for 6 weeks and expect the entire population to convert to rugby.

I'm not sure that the SAF/NZ model would work here. It would either start at the same time as the NRL/AFL finals and be deprived of any publicity or would be held afterwards, which to me is the wrong time of year to be playing rugby in Australia- too hot and running into cricket season.

I'd suggest a modified French Top 14 model starting in June. All current grade competitions in capital cities start at current time. After 1 full round; top 4 Sydney teams, top 2 Brisbane teams,top 2 Canberra teams and a combined club team from Melbourne and 1 from Perth play a 10 team 1 round competition with a top 4 finals system. Advantages: clubs already exist, complete with infastructure and admin so no need to add another layer, has an inbuilt promotion/relegation system, provides high level of competition each week - the equivalent of 9 weeks of semi-final football before the finals and runs at a time when people are in rugby mode. As with anything, it could be modified as the years go by, but it provides a relatively easy, simple set-up process.

QH going back to the early 90's and prior there use to be;
Nth Hbr v South Harbour.
Sydney v Country
ACT Kookuburras has a team.
What about start the SS around the same time as S15 (about 6 weeks earlier than proposed), and modify these "Rep" teams a little with the comp after the SS finishes. By moving the SS forward would we have 6 weeks etc for the 3rd tier and some good Curtain Raisers with the tests.
I.e.

1. Nth Hbr.
2. Sth Hbr.
3. Western Sydney.
4. Southern Districts and further south.
5. NSW Country.
6. ACT.
7. Central Coast and Nth is another area.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

QH going back to the early 90's and prior there use to be;
Nth Hbr v South Harbour.
Sydney v Country
ACT Kookuburras has a team.
What about start the SS around the same time as S15 (about 6 weeks earlier than proposed), and modify these "Rep" teams a little with the comp after the SS finishes. By moving the SS forward would we have 6 weeks etc for the 3rd tier and some good Curtain Raisers with the tests.
I.e.

1. Nth Hbr.
2. Sth Hbr.
3. Western Sydney.
4. Southern Districts and further south.
5. NSW Country.
6. ACT.
7. Central Coast and Nth is another area.

Hunter would be my choice.

 

[barbarian]

Guys we have plenty of threads discussing potential 3rd tier competitions, let's not turn this into another one.

Keep it to the ARU CEO chat please, or your posts will be moved to a more appropriate location.
.

 

[Dave Beat]

Hunter would be my choice.

Good choice, my suggestion Sth Districts and South (Illawarra, Kiama,) was purely due to the foudation that Southen could provide were as I dont know the Hunter well enough to pass comment. I'm looking at Rep Teams based on geographics and not the ARU placing players like they did with the ARC. Example;
I'd follow a rep team made up of Manly / Nths / Rats - i wouldnt know who to follow if the players I've supported all year were spread between teams.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

True, but the season runs for more than 6 months.

What do those fans watch from May to September... six or seven weeks of Soup Rugby?

I doubt it.

I reluctantly watch cricket until the super seasons starts - if I am inclined to watch soccer i watch what I consider to be the best in the world: Premier League - and there's more of that available on pay TV than A league. Running at the same time. i confess that Del Pietro (?) got my interest for a week or 2 - but not enough to watch it. I may not be typical but why waste your time watching has beens and never will bes when you cant watch Premier League?
I am still prepared to think Pulver can do a good job but, and its a big but, I am concerned that his expressed priority is the here and now.
Realistically 2013/14/15 are nothing to do with the CEO: they are in the hands of the S15 coaches, the U21 coaches and the Wallabies coaches. Any deficiencies in performance in those seasons wont be the result of decisions taken by Pulver - they will be JON's real legacy to the game reflecting his attitude to grass roots, particularly Western Sydney.
The CEO's concern has to be the next RWC cycle - where are the 15-18 year olds that will make us #2 or #1, win a RWC and maintain us in that position.
Unless we tap into the untapped potential the aim of being #1 is idle: NZ are not winding back their commitment to the game and nor are the Saffers.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

For fuck's sake no-one would recognise him anyway.

Yeah they would:
"Hey, its the guy who has only one shirt, its blue and he wore it the day his daughter was in court and on the 7:30 report"
or, more probably:
"Hey, its Botox Bill"

 

[Inside Shoulder]

The problem is there aren't any/enough junior clubs in certain areas of Sydney, so there's noone to 'get off their arse'. If rugby wants a meaningful presence in western Sydney, it requires startup support from ARU, then when its up and running the ARU can step back and the people there would need to run it.

The same process should apply to all the other areas that you mention and more.

The reason many of us talk about western Sydney is that it is the biggest city in the country and the biggest rugby/rugby league city in the country by miles and yet at least 1/2 of it geographically and demographically has little or no junior rugby infastructure. We're playing catch-up so it requires action from above.

and from personal experience i think you need to stop throwing the Eastern Suburbs into the same sentence as the north shore. From about the age of 11 big demands are made on kids to play league and they succumb to the lure of the junior bunnies.

 

[barbarian]

Also no talk about his daughter please, I don't think it's appropriate. As with players let's try and keep the family out of it when possible.

 

[whatever]

and from personal experience i think you need to stop throwing the Eastern Suburbs into the same sentence as the north shore. From about the age of 11 big demands are made on kids to play league and they succumb to the lure of the junior bunnies.

I agree with this - leaving north shore-pennisula-and other pockets around Sydney

 

[whatever]

Also no talk about his daughter please, I don't think it's appropriate. As with players let's try and keep the family out of it when possible.

Sense of humour, please: but I accept your call.

 

[biggsy]

So does this Mean the Wallabies are going play attacking ball in Rugby, Or things are going to be the same.

 

[Quick Hands]

and from personal experience i think you need to stop throwing the Eastern Suburbs into the same sentence as the north shore. From about the age of 11 big demands are made on kids to play league and they succumb to the lure of the junior bunnies.

I can't see the words "eastern suburbs" in the post that you have replied to.

What the eastern suburbs do have is 2 Shute Shield clubs each with 4 grade and 3 colts sides, plus junior infastructure plus a few private rugby playing schools. When I have "lumped" as you say the eastern suburbs in with the north shore, it is in context of the fact that there is existing rugby infastructure, clubs and culture in place in both places in contrast to the lack therof in the west.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I can't see the words "eastern suburbs" in the post that you have replied to.

What the eastern suburbs do have is 2 Shute Shield clubs each with 4 grade and 3 colts sides, plus junior infastructure plus a few private rugby playing schools. When I have "lumped" as you say the eastern suburbs in with the north shore, it is in context of the fact that there is existing rugby infastructure, clubs and culture in place in both places in contrast to the lack therof in the west.

sorry - I replied to your post only because it was the most recent dealing with the perceived strength of rugby playing areas - I wasnt meaning to misquote or misrepresent you.
All I am saying is that the rugby infrastructure by way of junior clubs is not strong in the east.
Neither Easts nor randwick are all that strong at club level - east have had more coaches through the joint in the last few years than they have junior clubs and there are reasons for that.
Randwick are in big trouble financially from what I read.
As for Schools - Scots: see scholarship thread; Cranbrook not overly competitive.
I am addressing a perception that rugby is alive and well in the east and i'm saying dont be so sure.

 

[barbarian]

So does this Mean the Wallabies are going play attacking ball in Rugby, Or things are going to be the same.

Since when did the CEO affect the style of rugby played by the Wallabies?

 

[Brumby Jack]

I still have my doubts about Hawker from his days as CEO of the NRMA.

I would have though that made him an expert on the breakdown area

 

[biggsy]

Since when did the CEO affect the style of rugby played by the Wallabies?

Isn't the CEO of a Company the Highest Position for complete admin and Management of a Company, so Bill Pulver (Dean's Boss) has said Deans will Coach the Wallabies 2013...
Doesn't that effect the way the Wallabies play.

 

[Quick Hands]

I replied to your post only because it was the most recent dealing with the perceived strength of rugby playing areas - I wasnt meaning to misquote or misrepresent you.
All I am saying is that the rugby infrastructure by way of junior clubs is not strong in the east.
Neither Easts nor randwick are all that strong at club level - east have had more coaches through the joint in the last few years than they have junior clubs and there are reasons for that.
Randwick are in big trouble financially from what I read.
As for Schools - Scots: see scholarship thread; Cranbrook not overly competitive.
I am addressing a perception that rugby is alive and well in the east and i'm saying dont be so sure.

I'm honestly not offended, just trying to explain myself. What you say is correct, which is why I've never compared east/north shore/peninsula to each other. I've only included them as a unit when comparing what isn't available in the west.

From Easts and Randwick JRU websites they each have 4 clubs, which reading between the lines, are mainly either 6-9 years or 6-12 years, with only one club in each area going on to 16s (Wallaroos and Coogee). So at least 6 year old boys in the east have a rugby club close to home to play for with their school mates. In contrast Penrith JRU have 3 teams, one at Richmond, one in the Blue Mountains and one at Rooty Hill, so most 6 year olds in that huge area of Sydney don't have a 'local' rugby team to play for that is reasonably close to their home. The result being that all their school mates play for the local league club and they do too.

It's my belief addressing this issue is what the ARU CEO should be doing, not worrying about how good the Wallaby coach is. The presence or absence of RD is not going to make one iota of difference to rugby development in this country. I think you also identified as much in one of your posts when you correctly stated that his job is the future not the present. RD and co will be judged on their results and I suspect that the vultures are already circling or will be soon. I didn't read Pulver's comments on RD as being anything other than what someone in his position would say on day one. I don't even think it's his job to hire or fire the coach - it's a board decision an he's just the messenger.

 

[whatever]

I would have though that made him an expert on the breakdown area

Good one, he definitely went out of his way to breakdown the NRMA - almost into non-existence.