ISA Rugby 2013

[Roar]

Hopeless coaching, a non-existent rugby programme and ad hoc approach could have something to do with it. Oakhill have loads of talent that’s just going to waste.

The Auggies Boys just came out like Canons Firing, Confident they knew what they were doing and where to send the ball Poor Oakhill looked in Shock. Auggies speed outwide was Amazing and by the look of them, I don't think Auggies were playing in Top Gear as they still looked nice and fresh coming off the field in the end and probably saving themselves for the Trials. Auggies is coached very, very well, which certainly helps. Hopefully Oakhill with some of their players playing for ISA Trials tomorrow will go really well. Auggies Midfield Back Kaplan got injured, Shoulder.

 

[Slugga]

if their rugby programme is non-existent, what do they concentrate on? its an honest question - i know almost nothing about them.

They don’t concentrate on anything. There is no co-ordination between teams and years, no structure or planning.

Each year teams are allocated to new coaches based more on years of service than knowledge of rugby. A clique exists so for some there is little pressure to perform, talent is not developed and potential quality players are not identified.

With a proper programme they could be a real force in school rugby but they’re content being a big fish in the little ISA pond.

Unfortunately my son treats school rugby there as a bit of fun in between club and representative commitments

 

[Hell West & Crooked]

I am not doubting you - but how does a clique survive?

 

[Roar]

They don’t concentrate on anything. There is no co-ordination between teams and years, no structure or planning.

Each year teams are allocated to new coaches based more on years of service than knowledge of rugby. A clique exists so for some there is little pressure to perform, talent is not developed and potential quality players are not identified.

With a proper programme they could be a real force in school rugby but they’re content being a big fish in the little ISA pond.

Unfortunately my son treats school rugby there as a bit of fun in between club and representative commitments

What a shame Slugga, There is a lot of Talent there at Oakhill. They need to be Directed in the Right Direction and be Coached by someone who has the Credentials behind him to lead the way. It is just a Waste and a Waste for Schoolboy Union as some of these kids could go a long way.

 

[BillyBlack]

Cliques easily survive (at many schools)
Some schools have a "Year 12 play in preference to Year 10 or 11 students - because of seniority, and that the younger student will get their chance).
This is apparent with schools that have "weaker rugby programs", fewer senior teams or lack of depth.
It's wrong !!

 

[I like to watch]

Pretty much every School gives preference to the yr 12 student if there is not much between the 2 boys.
As an outsider who has viewed Oakhill for too many years,all the coaches seem to be emotionally invested and at least competent.What more do you want?
I have seen plenty of Colts and grade coaches who are not as well versed in the game as their first XV coach appears to be.
Have a look at the number of teams the School fields, it's got a fucking good Rugby program.

 

[Slugga]

I am not doubting you - but how does a clique survive?

There are the annointed few and the rest, it's as simple as that. Teams are mostly picked before a ball is kicked, trials are a joke and like the Aussie cricket team it's harder to be dropped from the side than it is to get in it.

Many will slip by the wayside when they finish school as their skills have not developed, some will never be given a chance and will never know their potential and a few (like my son) will benefit as they've had to work for everything they get and consistantly perform if they're ever to be noticed.

 

[Slugga]

Pretty much every School gives preference to the yr 12 student if there is not much between the 2 boys.
As an outsider who has viewed Oakhill for too many years,all the coaches seem to be emotionally invested and at least competent.What more do you want?
I have seen plenty of Colts and grade coaches who are not as well versed in the game as their first XV coach appears to be.
Have a look at the number of teams the School fields, it's got a fucking good Rugby program.

Well I guess it depends on your definition of competent, In my experience most coaches are barely competent, so I tell you what more I’d like, someone to coach the coaches and coordinate the rugby development. They had a guy there a couple of years ago, qualified and prepared to do all of that but Oakhill in its wisdom got rid of him.

If numbers were what determines what is and isn’t a good rugby programme Japan would be world champs.

Finally If you observed Oakhill as an outsider then how would you ‘fucking’ know if it has a good programme or not?

 

[Slugga]

What a shame Slugga, There is a lot of Talent there at Oakhill. They need to be Directed in the Right Direction and be Coached by someone who has the Credentials behind him to lead the way. It is just a Waste and a Waste for Schoolboy Union as some of these kids could go a long way.

For sure, if Oakhill had programmes like some of the tradiaional rugby schools I have no doubt they'd be a premier force in rugby.

We were lucky enough to receive superb coaching through our school years and I can only shake my head when i look at how Oakhill runs things.

 

[Quick Hands]

For sure, if Oakhill had programmes like some of the tradiaional rugby schools I have no doubt they'd be a premier force in rugby.

We were lucky enough to receive superb coaching through our school years and I can only shake my head when i look at how Oakhill runs things.

I'm not doubting what you say, it does seem though from some results this year that Oakhill are weaker than they have been across the board. You wouldn't think that there'd be that much change in players in 12 months. Something isn't going right up there.

 

[Slugga]

I'm not doubting what you say, it does seem though from some results this year that Oakhill are weaker than they have been across the board. You wouldn't think that there'd be that much change in players in 12 months. Something isn't going right up there.

Yes, exactly. Performance varies from year to year (but not the personnel) within the same group which supports my comments on the clique that exists and the ad hoc, amateurish approach to rugby

 

[Tom Ando]

In Div 2, Chev 12 def SACS 7. Horrid game discipline wise.

 

[Runner]

No knowledge of Oakhill programme but didn't they win the competition for ISA as well as the 1st XV competiton last year. I thought a thread here last year had them beat Auggies who did come back and beat them in the Waratah shield

 

[I like to watch]

Well I guess it depends on your definition of competent, In my experience most coaches are barely competent, so I tell you what more I’d like, someone to coach the coaches and coordinate the rugby development. They had a guy there a couple of years ago, qualified and prepared to do all of that but Oakhill in its wisdom got rid of him.

If numbers were what determines what is and isn’t a good rugby programme Japan would be world champs.

Finally If you observed Oakhill as an outsider then how would you ‘fucking’ know if it has a good programme or not?

They are consistently of a high standard in their "A" teams.
Last year the first XV won the ISA comp and beat every CAS team.
In the lower age groups the "D" s are playing with good structure and desire.
That's a good program big fella.

Don't blame the structure when you say every year a different coach overlooks the same player.

 

[Slugga]

They are consistently of a high standard in their "A" teams.
Last year the first XV won the ISA comp and beat every CAS team.
In the lower age groups the "D" s are playing with good structure and desire.
That's a good program big fella.

Don't blame the structure when you say every year a different coach overlooks the same player.

No one said Oakhill haven’t enjoyed success. As I stated they are lucky to have a large pool of talented players.

As far as lower grades having good structure etc is concerned that is simply not true. The likes of Joey’s, Riverview etc are technically superior and consistently outperform Oakhill.

Why is this so? Because there is no rugby programme - good or bad. The coaching and development is below par and subsequently they fall short of their potential.

When I say every year a different coach overlooks the same players then who could you blame if not the structure?

 

[Slugga]

No knowledge of Oakhill programme but didn't they win the competition for ISA as well as the 1st XV competiton last year. I thought a thread here last year had them beat Auggies who did come back and beat them in the Waratah shield

Refer post above.

My argument is the lack of a programme, talent identification and developmement means they will have the strong years like 2012 but will continue to fall short of their potential and not acheive the consistancy and depth of success that the leading schools enjoy.

 

[Maccasley]

Kinross 20 St Pats 17

A great day of rugby for St Pats, turned sour in the closing minutes of the 1st xv match. St Pats won all A's matches and were looking the goods in the 1sts leading 13-17 with 5 minutes remaining.

The game itself was a beauty. Kinross had all the possession in the first 5 minutes and were met with some vigorous St Pats defense. St Pats worked there way back through an incredible performance at the scrum. I must congratulate the four front rowers who were rotated around throughout the game. The front row ought to be commended, the scrum saved St Pats on many occasions. How often does a team take the lineout option from a not straight throw becaue they know they will lose the scrum? Great effort by the St Pats front rowers who collected a number of crucial tightheads. The St Pats forwards successfully turned possession and territory in to points through three tries via a disciplined display of pick and drive. Pj Agliozzo was superb taking two tries, with the blindside flanker Matt Vale capturing the other. The backs for St Pats really covered well in defense against a fast and skillful backline. They St Pats backs really complimented the forwards today, which works far better to the usual method of St Pats rugby.

Kinross are very good team and got early points through a penalty which proved the difference. Bill Freeman at no.8 was tremendous, running, rucking and tackling all day. Ned Yeomans at 12 was fantastic with able in hand and scored the match winning "try" for Kinross. He was ably supported by a very fast and elusive 13, who's name I don't know. The Kinross forwards got pushed around all day. The scrum was dominated, there pick and drive defense was woeful, there phase running was one dimensional, Freeman at no8 covered for a lot of them. The speed of the Kinross backs won it for them.

From what has been written you would have expected a St Pats victory, although it seems as if St Pats aren't destined to win this season. St Pats had defended tirelessly all games with multiple held up tries and knock ons resulting from good teamwork and resilience. Unfortunately for the boys in black all there hard work came to nothing following a rather ignorant mistake by the referee. It is very unfortunate as the ball was blatantly dropped over the line by the Kinross player and this was signaled by the touchiest who was within 5 meters of the "try". The ref had missed the knock on and didn't converse with the touchie who had a better view and awarded the try. Following some blow up and anger the ref asked the touchie who gave his report and the end result was, "I have already awarded the try, sorry".

Congratulations to Kinross, it is a measure of a good team to play badly and still win, but I have a great deal of sorrow for the St Pats boys who played incredibly well against such a good team, to have a hard earned victory taken from right under their noses.

Good luck to all the ISA representatives tomorrow. Do us proud and lets see as many of you in sky blue in a couple of weeks.

Was there too, load of bull.
Pats deserved to win this year, got hammered by 30 points last year.

 

[I like to watch]

No one said Oakhill haven’t enjoyed success. As I stated they are lucky to have a large pool of talented players.It hasn't been just one year, they are consistently ranked in the top 2 ISA Schools year after year.

As far as lower grades having good structure etc is concerned that is simply not true. The likes of Joey’s, Riverview etc are technically superior and consistently outperform Oakhill.

It is silly to compare Oakhill or St Augustines "D"s with Joeys or View "D"s With Oakhill the "D"s are the twenty kids left that weren't chosen in the "C"s,with the GPS Schools the "D"s are the best 15 of the remaining pool of up to 50 to 60 players.Of course they should be better.
Why is this so? Because there is no rugby programme - good or bad. The coaching and development is below par and subsequently they fall short of their potential.

When I say every year a different coach overlooks the same players then who could you blame if not the structure?The structure is flawed because a different person each year prefers another player?In every School there are a handful of players that are first XV standard that are overlooked. That doesn't mean the selectors were wrong,it just means that there is depth in the School.Which generally means they have a good program!

 

[crofty]

Refer post above.

My argument is the lack of a programme, talent identification and developmement means they will have the strong years like 2012 but will continue to fall short of their potential and not acheive the consistancy and depth of success that the leading schools enjoy.

As a parent of an Oakhill boy who finished year 12 last year, and also as a former member of the Oakhill rugby committee while my son was at the school, I cannot let Slugga's comments slip through to the keeper.

Been a while since I posted on this forum but I thought I'd log on to read about the midweek Oaks v Auggies game after hearing at Colts yesterday that Auggies demolished the boys from Castle Hill.

The Oakhill Sports Master and teachers do a damm fine job with the resources they have. Oakhill doesn't want to be regarded as a 'rugby school'. There is overt recognition that rugby shouldn't dominate to the detriment of other sports and extra curricular activities. Oakhill wants its students to get a well rounded education and access to a host of learning and other opportunities while attending the college. Having said that, a lot of effort is put in by a lot of people - almost exclusively on a voluntary basis to ensure the rugby teams Oakhill fields are as competitive as possible.

Oakhill was blessed with an extremely strong cohort of players who were in yr12 last year. There were multiple examples of rep players from Eastwood, Parra and West Harbour who couldn't make the age group A team through the years and were unable to make the 1st XV, or in a couple of cases, the 2nd XV last year. There was even a case of an extremely talented player who made the NSW rep U15 & U17 sides but didn't play 1st XV rugby durng his time at Oakhill because of the depth of talent in year 12 last year.

2013 was always going to be a tough year for Oakhill. The current group of year 12 players have not enjoyed a lot of success though their age group years and only 3 or 4 of them played 1st XV last year. Contrast this to Auggies who had a significant number of very talented yr 11 (and a few yr10) players in their 1sts last year.

St Augustines place a lot of emphasis on attracting and developing talented rugby players - and they do a very good job of it. Their results in recent years are outstanding and surely equal to any school in the country.

Slugga, if your son isn't playing at the level you would like at school I can't see how its the fault of the coaching staff. There are regular meetings and debriefs involving coaches within and across age groups and a close eye is kept on emerging talent. Oakhill does a great job with the cattle its got - and that is a key point - the school doesn't attempt to induce or attract athletes of any persuasion to the school. Coaches and players love to win and are proud of their achievements but its not a win at all costs approach - one of the great things about Oakhill rugby is seeing the enjoyment and growth boys get from playing with their mates on a Saturday.

ILTW - thank you for your balanced comments on this topic. I agree with everything you have said and appreciate the points you make.

 

[hbhrugby]

Was there too, load of bull.
Pats deserved to win this year, got hammered by 30 points last year.

I was also at the match and could not believe the ignorance of the ref, particularly at such a crucial stage of the match. St Pats deserved to win and it must be very difficult for the St Pats coaches and players to swallow as they have had a fairly tough year with injuries and results. Credit to the St Pats boys for managing there frustration and not embarrassing themselves and the school, given the very unfortunate circumstances.