ISA Rugby 2013

[Slugga]

1.This is the big fish in a little pond mind set I was talking about. Oakhill should be striving to be the best in all organisations including GPS, if they’re not in the top two ISA most years they should give the game away.

2.The only thing preventing Oakhill lower grades from being competitive with all comers is a lack of technique and coaching, the talent is there. Oh and also the belief that it’s ok to lose because they don’t have teams down to the f’s, it’s a cop out and part of the problem.

3.Ultimately coaches have to make decisions and I respect that. My issue is the lack of opportunity given to some players. For example let’s say you have the incumbent 5/8 who’s automatically picked every year. It may well be the case that the’ number two’ is equally as good, maybe better but you’ll never know if he’s not given the opportunity. This is exactly what happens at Oakhill.

You need to understand that there is no rugby programme at Oakhill, formal or otherwise. This is the reason and the solution to the problems I have outlined above.

 

[Slugga]

As a parent of an Oakhill boy who finished year 12 last year, and also as a former member of the Oakhill rugby committee while my son was at the school, I cannot let Slugga's comments slip through to the keeper.

Been a while since I posted on this forum but I thought I'd log on to read about the midweek Oaks v Auggies game after hearing at Colts yesterday that Auggies demolished the boys from Castle Hill.

The Oakhill Sports Master and teachers do a damm fine job with the resources they have. Oakhill doesn't want to be regarded as a 'rugby school'. There is overt recognition that rugby shouldn't dominate to the detriment of other sports and extra curricular activities. Oakhill wants its students to get a well rounded education and access to a host of learning and other opportunities while attending the college. Having said that, a lot of effort is put in by a lot of people - almost exclusively on a voluntary basis to ensure the rugby teams Oakhill fields are as competitive as possible.

Oakhill was blessed with an extremely strong cohort of players who were in yr12 last year. There were multiple examples of rep players from Eastwood, Parra and West Harbour who couldn't make the age group A team through the years and were unable to make the 1st XV, or in a couple of cases, the 2nd XV last year. There was even a case of an extremely talented player who made the NSW rep U15 & U17 sides but didn't play 1st XV rugby durng his time at Oakhill because of the depth of talent in year 12 last year.

2013 was always going to be a tough year for Oakhill. The current group of year 12 players have not enjoyed a lot of success though their age group years and only 3 or 4 of them played 1st XV last year. Contrast this to Auggies who had a significant number of very talented yr 11 (and a few yr10) players in their 1sts last year.

St Augustines place a lot of emphasis on attracting and developing talented rugby players - and they do a very good job of it. Their results in recent years are outstanding and surely equal to any school in the country.

Slugga, if your son isn't playing at the level you would like at school I can't see how its the fault of the coaching staff. There are regular meetings and debriefs involving coaches within and across age groups and a close eye is kept on emerging talent. Oakhill does a great job with the cattle its got - and that is a key point - the school doesn't attempt to induce or attract athletes of any persuasion to the school. Coaches and players love to win and are proud of their achievements but its not a win at all costs approach - one of the great things about Oakhill rugby is seeing the enjoyment and growth boys get from playing with their mates on a Saturday.

ILTW - thank you for your balanced comments on this topic. I agree with everything you have said and appreciate the points you make.

Crofty I absolutely agree with you in that an all round education is, and should be the schools priority.

Having said that there is an equally compelling concept in the pursuit of excellence, wether in rugby or marbles, and they are not mutually exclusive. There is also the matter of fairness and the fact is all animals are not equal at Oakhill to the detriment of everyone.

 

[Rugby Tragic]

Crofty, well said and a true reflection of rugby at Oakhill. Also agree with ILTW's comments. I was at the game last Thursday night and saw it all unfold. Rugby isn't just a physical game its also a mental game and mentally Oakhill didn't turn up!. Simple things like counting heads and numbering up didn't happen. The young blokes were bullied by a rampaging off the line defence that Auggies played. The Auggies fly half had to much time and 2 or 3 running options inside and out everytime he got the ball, and yes they had the ball alot.They will learn from it and regroup and come back stronger.

Slugga, sounds to me like tyou have Ferrari taste with a commodore budget!
You need to remember that school sport isn't compulsory at Oakhill. Maybe your boy should just concentrate on club and reps! Send him off to Joey's if your looking for full on structured rugby program. Obviously in your eyes Oakhill has nothing to offer your lad.

Lets just all remember that 1st XV this year are all big fish in a small pond, when they leave school in rugby terms they are all minows in a vast ocean.

 

[Slugga]

Crofty, well said and a true reflection of rugby at Oakhill. Also agree with ILTW's comments. I was at the game last Thursday night and saw it all unfold. Rugby isn't just a physical game its also a mental game and mentally Oakhill didn't turn up!. Simple things like counting heads and numbering up didn't happen. The young blokes were bullied by a rampaging off the line defence that Auggies played. The Auggies fly half had to much time and 2 or 3 running options inside and out everytime he got the ball, and yes they had the ball alot.They will learn from it and regroup and come back stronger.

Slugga, sounds to me like tyou have Ferrari taste with a commodore budget!
You need to remember that school sport isn't compulsory at Oakhill. Maybe your boy should just concentrate on club and reps! Send him off to Joey's if your looking for full on structured rugby program. Obviously in your eyes Oakhill has nothing to offer your lad.

Lets just all remember that 1st XV this year are all big fish in a small pond, when they leave school in rugby terms they are all minows in a vast ocean.

Rugby tragic you are playing both sides of the fence. On one hand you talk about the mental toughness lacking at Oakhill and in the next breath you take the sport is not compulsory it’s about participation line. Once again they are not mutually exclusive.

As far as the Ferrari tastes line – rubbish. Vast improvements can be made at Oakhill by a simple change in culture (mental toughness if you will) and a co-ordinated programme headed by someone who knows what they’re doing. It’s really not that hard. (we had such a guy but Oaks let him go).

You assume too much re what I believe Oakhill can offer my son. This is a rugby blog and I am giving my opinion as to the pro’s and con’s of Oakhill rugby. I’m sorry you don’t like what I have to say but we’ll just have to live with that.

 

[Rugby Tragic]

Rugby tragic you are playing both sides of the fence. On one hand you talk about the mental toughness lacking at Oakhill and in the next breath you take the sport is not compulsory it’s about participation line. Once again they are not mutually exclusive.

As far as the Ferrari tastes line – rubbish. Vast improvements can be made at Oakhill by a simple change in culture (mental toughness if you will) and a co-ordinated programme headed by someone who knows what they’re doing. It’s really not that hard. (we had such a guy but Oaks let him go).

You assume too much re what I believe Oakhill can offer my son. This is a rugby blog and I am giving my opinion as to the pro’s and con’s of Oakhill rugby. I’m sorry you don’t like what I have to say but we’ll just have to live with that.

Slugga, lets just cut to the chase then, reading all your blogs, it looks like your just pee'd off, your boy hasn't been given a shot at the 1sts. If i'm wrong i'm sure you'll let me know! Cream rises to the top, if he's good enough then it will show. Lets just remember you didn't start throwing your opinions around until after the 65-nil drubbing the boys got. Up until then you seem to have been silent. Is your young bloke that good he could of prevented it, i think not.

 

[Slugga]

Slugga, lets just cut to the chase then, reading all your blogs, it looks like your just pee'd off, your boy hasn't been given a shot at the 1sts. If i'm wrong i'm sure you'll let me know! Cream rises to the top, if he's good enough then it will show. Lets just remember you didn't start throwing your opinions around until after the 65-nil drubbing the boys got. Up until then you seem to have been silent. Is your young bloke that good he could of prevented it, i think not.

You got one thing right Tragic and that is you could be wrong. My son isn’t in the opens and my comments aren’t about the first XV, I’m talking about Oaks rugby in general.

 

[Rugby Tragic]

Slugga, as far as your both sides of the fence comment, i doubt you would get anymore bang for your buck at any other college as you do at Oakhill college. You just need to stop playing the victim card mate. I have been involved with the school for 9 years and have been very impressed with both academic and sporting programmes. Until sport becomes compulsory at the college ( ie all kids must play ! therefore an influx of dollars) then maybe they could afford a structured programme in ALL SPORTS. You just seem to be coming across as the disgruntled dad, but if your boy gets a run in the firsts, all will seem forgottten hey!

 

[Rugby Tragic]

You got one thing right Tragic and that is you could be wrong. My son isn’t in the opens and my comments aren’t about the first XV, I’m talking about Oaks rugby in general.

Well, its not too late for you to make an educated decision about where he ends up then is it? You still haven't addressesd your silence on the discussion at hand regarding your silence up until now!, Maybe you should rather than criticise put your hand up and get involved as many of us have done over the years. Very easy to be an armchair critic.

 

[Quick Hands]

Kinross 20 St Pats 17

A great day of rugby for St Pats, turned sour in the closing minutes of the 1st xv match. St Pats won all A's matches and were looking the goods in the 1sts leading 13-17 with 5 minutes remaining.

The game itself was a beauty. Kinross had all the possession in the first 5 minutes and were met with some vigorous St Pats defense. St Pats worked there way back through an incredible performance at the scrum. I must congratulate the four front rowers who were rotated around throughout the game. The front row ought to be commended, the scrum saved St Pats on many occasions. How often does a team take the lineout option from a not straight throw becaue they know they will lose the scrum? Great effort by the St Pats front rowers who collected a number of crucial tightheads. The St Pats forwards successfully turned possession and territory in to points through three tries via a disciplined display of pick and drive. Pj Agliozzo was superb taking two tries, with the blindside flanker Matt Vale capturing the other. The backs for St Pats really covered well in defense against a fast and skillful backline. They St Pats backs really complimented the forwards today, which works far better to the usual method of St Pats rugby.

Kinross are very good team and got early points through a penalty which proved the difference. Bill Freeman at no.8 was tremendous, running, rucking and tackling all day. Ned Yeomans at 12 was fantastic with able in hand and scored the match winning "try" for Kinross. He was ably supported by a very fast and elusive 13, who's name I don't know. The Kinross forwards got pushed around all day. The scrum was dominated, there pick and drive defense was woeful, there phase running was one dimensional, Freeman at no8 covered for a lot of them. The speed of the Kinross backs won it for them.

From what has been written you would have expected a St Pats victory, although it seems as if St Pats aren't destined to win this season. St Pats had defended tirelessly all games with multiple held up tries and knock ons resulting from good teamwork and resilience. Unfortunately for the boys in black all there hard work came to nothing following a rather ignorant mistake by the referee. It is very unfortunate as the ball was blatantly dropped over the line by the Kinross player and this was signaled by the touchiest who was within 5 meters of the "try". The ref had missed the knock on and didn't converse with the touchie who had a better view and awarded the try. Following some blow up and anger the ref asked the touchie who gave his report and the end result was, "I have already awarded the try, sorry".

Congratulations to Kinross, it is a measure of a good team to play badly and still win, but I have a great deal of sorrow for the St Pats boys who played incredibly well against such a good team, to have a hard earned victory taken from right under their noses.

Good luck to all the ISA representatives tomorrow. Do us proud and lets see as many of you in sky blue in a couple of weeks.

Kinross have been the revelation of 2013. This result supports the view that their close game against Augustines a couple of weeks was no fluke and can't be put down to the weather.

To compound his error, the referee could have awarded a scrum for the knock-on if he was acting on the report of the assistant referee (as opposed to players/coaches/spectators) despite having originally awarded a try.

 

[Slugga]

Slugga, as far as your both sides of the fence comment, i doubt you would get anymore bang for your buck at any other college as you do at Oakhill college. You just need to stop playing the victim card mate. I have been involved with the school for 9 years and have been very impressed with both academic and sporting programmes. Until sport becomes compulsory at the college ( ie all kids must play ! therefore an influx of dollars) then maybe they could afford a structured programme in ALL SPORTS. You just seem to be coming across as the disgruntled dad, but if your boy gets a run in the firsts, all will seem forgottten hey!

You seem to believe criticism equals playing the victim card and being a disgruntled dad which is quite a leap considering you know little about me and nothing about my son.

 

[Slugga]

Well, its not too late for you to make an educated decision about where he ends up then is it? You still haven't addressesd your silence on the discussion at hand regarding your silence up until now!, Maybe you should rather than criticise put your hand up and get involved as many of us have done over the years. Very easy to be an armchair critic.

I joined the blog about a week ago so the reason for my silence until recently is self evident. I’m talking to you now aren’t I?
And I have already put my hand up and have been involved in Oakhill and other rugby for years, that's why I know it can be improved but thanks for the gratuitous advice anyway.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Can we have rule 9 about the Oakhill programme or lack thereof?

Both sides of the story have had a fair go, and it seems that the pro's and con's are somewhat entrenched in their views.

Can I note that this round (across all schoolboy footy) has had criticism of referee performance. The Pats v Kinross game (ISA) and the Waverley v Knox (CAS) game seemed to have been decided by referee decisions. Snouts at the Shore v Scots game (GPS) report that the referee performance was sub-optimal.

Clearly we need more referees in our game, and these need to be of the highest calibre.

I look forward to hearing reports of a over-subscribed referee courses as all those who are critical of referee performances rush to get qualified so that they can contribute to reducing the number of incompetent and biased referees in our game.

 

[BillyBlack]

​

I think that we are lucky to have "accredited" referees for the games.
On the weekend I watched two games involving First XV teams.
In one game there was a young child running the line, and when I say a child - he was 12 or 13 years old. He had poor judgement, he was influenced by the parents on the sideline, and he made numerous incorrect decisions. Fortunately none that influenced the result, but schools should (MUST) have experienced referees and linespeople to control the top games.
At the second game there were two students running the line. They may, or may not have been accredited - either way they should have been in a referees/linesperson's uniform.
At the top level (Opens) there are numerous "physical altercations" that may be fouls in their own right, or lead to a "loss of temper" and a punches thrown.
That is when you need a linesperson, and independent/neutral linesperson - and not a local student of the school.
That is when you need those extra set of "experienced" eyes.​

 

[PedrosSon]

From the weekend St pats front 3 are the top form front rowers when it comes to the set piece securing countless number of tightheads i could only count kinross winning 3 of their own loosehead and feed.This is mainly to the credit of the tighthead and hooker. Also who was the rampaging 17 for st pats? and why wasn't he playing the whole match the replacement number 8 had two touches each gaining 30 + was creating terrors for kinross captain (flyhalf) exposing his defence. In the case of the st pats kinross fixture i believe st pats lost it when they had ample amount of oppourtunity with 3 penalties all kickable places to put the dagger in the coffin with a penalty kick but oppting instead to go for seven which lead to a turnover giving kinross possesion leading to the try.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

BillyBlack, you are newish on Gaggerland. Over time I am on record here on various threads of being rather critical of Sydney Juniors.

I now get to give a bouquet (as opposed to my usual brickbat) to the Juniors.

Several years ago, the Juniors issued an edict that all AR's must be qualified on the AR level 1 course, and that each team needed to have one qualified AR. In the event that a team did not have a qualified AR at the game, the team in default was docked competition points. Pretty powerful incentive.

Further the Juniors found a sponsor who produced Yellow "I'm a Qualified AR" Polo shirts which were issued free of charge when you passed the course and theory exam.

Perhaps School Footy could follow this great initiative.

 

[rugbydownsouth]

From the weekend St pats front 3 are the top form front rowers when it comes to the set piece securing countless number of tightheads i could only count kinross winning 3 of their own loosehead and feed.This is mainly to the credit of the tighthead and hooker. Also who was the rampaging 17 for st pats? and why wasn't he playing the whole match the replacement number 8 had two touches each gaining 30 + was creating terrors for kinross captain (flyhalf) exposing his defence. In the case of the st pats kinross fixture i believe st pats lost it when they had ample amount of oppourtunity with 3 penalties all kickable places to put the dagger in the coffin with a penalty kick but oppting instead to go for seven which lead to a turnover giving kinross possesion leading to the try.

It was really a disappointing result for St Pats who really played out their potential yesterday. In regards to the opportunities for penalty goals, goal kicking is a major issue for St Pats if they had a higher success rate kicking they would have beat Marist ACT in the Waratah Shield, drawn with Oakhill, beat Waverely and beat Kinross. St Pats prefer to run the ball and on that occasion a worn out St Pats forward pack were unable to exercise the same composure at the scrum, resulting in sloppy ball at the back.

It was a great game of rugby to watch irrespective of the result. The St Pats forwards were a cut above yesterday showing dominance through pick and drive, ruck defense and the set piece. The Kinross backs showed a great deal of speed and skill, which eventually got them over the line. It was great to see two teams really put it all on the line to bring home a victory.

In regards to the "try". It was not an issue of the referees 'incompetence' or 'lack of experience and knowledge' etc. The referee handled the game very well throughout and applied the laws of the game in a manner that was fair and allowed both teams to be th benefactors of their different areas of dominance. The try was given although there was a knock on. Simply put the ref missed it, the assistant didn't, miscommunication, Kinross win and will likely finish 2nd and St Pats lose and remain dead last in the ISA, which there performance yesterday is by no means indicative of there current standing. I feel it unneccessary to have all this blame and talk around the referee. A mistake was made, and thats what happens in rugby, you have to expect the unexpected. As mentioned I to commend the St Pats players for there reaction to the events. It was evidently frustrating for the boys, but they copped it and I hope they continue to turn in similar performances and hopefully can bring home a few victories next term, and with any luck give Auggies a good run. In my opinion Kinross will finish 2nd behind Augustine's. I have a strong feeling Kinross can beat Oakhill up in Orange.

The St Pats front row and entire forward pack ought to be commented for their work. The front row for St Pats have week in week out laid a solid platform and this has been duly recognized by Matt Edwards and Pj Agliozzos selection in the ISA squad, in the positions of hooker and thp. Yesterday saw Tim Skinner return from an injury suffered in a Waratah Shield match. He came off the bench and was listed as 16th man, with St Pats effectively using their 12 subs available to them. Throughout the game both Skinner and Agliozzo played at tighthead and worked well with Edwards to secure the turnovers. Taylor and Skinner both share the loose head side throughout the match and ably assisted in the impressive effort. The #17 who has been inquired about was Tony Abraham, who has been a late inclusion at no8 for ISA 2s. From what I understand he played in the 2nds for a reason unknown to me. He was a cut above 2nd grade as one would expect of an ISA rep player. Surely after his performance in the 2nds and his success off the bench he will be back as a regular fixture for St Pats 1sts. In the absence of Josh Taweel due to injury, Matt Vale has stepped up as captain at blindside flanker. Vale has been in superb form for the past couple of matches and I feel that his efforts deserve recognition. Against Stannies in what was an ugly game for St Pats, Vale was everywhere making key tackles and always been effective with ball in hand. Hopefully the St Pats forwards bolstered with the return of Skinner and Taweel can continue to be a force in the ISA and claim a victory for against both Greg's and Pius.


Any match reports from today's rep fixtures??

 

[ten4M]

Can we have rule 9 about the Oakhill programme or lack thereof?

Both sides of the story have had a fair go, and it seems that the pro's and con's are somewhat entrenched in their views.

Can I note that this round (across all schoolboy footy) has had criticism of referee performance. The Pats v Kinross game (ISA) and the Waverley v Knox (CAS) game seemed to have been decided by referee decisions. Snouts at the Shore v Scots game (GPS) report that the referee performance was sub-optimal.

Clearly we need more referees in our game, and these need to be of the highest calibre.

I look forward to hearing reports of a over-subscribed referee courses as all those who are critical of referee performances rush to get qualified so that they can contribute to reducing the number of incompetent and biased referees in our game.

Been following the forums for a while now, and agree with HJ's comments. The fact about referees in Sydney is this: There aren't enough of them - especially at the higher levels, with some referees being appointed to 2nd and 1st XV games having to do 4th grade premier games in the mornings. At the moment there are referees who have to fill in at a higher level than their grade due to the Lions' tour, injuries, uni exams, etc. So we would welcome people who to put their money where their mouth is (or whistle), and attend the next referees/assistant referees course. Or just hope the good ones don't get injured reffing subbies during the school holiday break.

 

[Roar]

It was really a disappointing result for St Pats who really played out their potential yesterday. In regards to the opportunities for penalty goals, goal kicking is a major issue for St Pats if they had a higher success rate kicking they would have beat Marist ACT in the Waratah Shield, drawn with Oakhill, beat Waverely and beat Kinross. St Pats prefer to run the ball and on that occasion a worn out St Pats forward pack were unable to exercise the same composure at the scrum, resulting in sloppy ball at the back.

It was a great game of rugby to watch irrespective of the result. The St Pats forwards were a cut above yesterday showing dominance through pick and drive, ruck defense and the set piece. The Kinross backs showed a great deal of speed and skill, which eventually got them over the line. It was great to see two teams really put it all on the line to bring home a victory.

In regards to the "try". It was not an issue of the referees 'incompetence' or 'lack of experience and knowledge' etc. The referee handled the game very well throughout and applied the laws of the game in a manner that was fair and allowed both teams to be th benefactors of their different areas of dominance. The try was given although there was a knock on. Simply put the ref missed it, the assistant didn't, miscommunication, Kinross win and will likely finish 2nd and St Pats lose and remain dead last in the ISA, which there performance yesterday is by no means indicative of there current standing. I feel it unneccessary to have all this blame and talk around the referee. A mistake was made, and thats what happens in rugby, you have to expect the unexpected. As mentioned I to commend the St Pats players for there reaction to the events. It was evidently frustrating for the boys, but they copped it and I hope they continue to turn in similar performances and hopefully can bring home a few victories next term, and with any luck give Auggies a good run. In my opinion Kinross will finish 2nd behind Augustine's. I have a strong feeling Kinross can beat Oakhill up in Orange.

The St Pats front row and entire forward pack ought to be commented for their work. The front row for St Pats have week in week out laid a solid platform and this has been duly recognized by Matt Edwards and Pj Agliozzos selection in the ISA squad, in the positions of hooker and thp. Yesterday saw Tim Skinner return from an injury suffered in a Waratah Shield match. He came off the bench and was listed as 16th man, with St Pats effectively using their 12 subs available to them. Throughout the game both Skinner and Agliozzo played at tighthead and worked well with Edwards to secure the turnovers. Taylor and Skinner both share the loose head side throughout the match and ably assisted in the impressive effort. The #17 who has been inquired about was Tony Abraham, who has been a late inclusion at no8 for ISA 2s. From what I understand he played in the 2nds for a reason unknown to me. He was a cut above 2nd grade as one would expect of an ISA rep player. Surely after his performance in the 2nds and his success off the bench he will be back as a regular fixture for St Pats 1sts. In the absence of Josh Taweel due to injury, Matt Vale has stepped up as captain at blindside flanker. Vale has been in superb form for the past couple of matches and I feel that his efforts deserve recognition. Against Stannies in what was an ugly game for St Pats, Vale was everywhere making key tackles and always been effective with ball in hand. Hopefully the St Pats forwards bolstered with the return of Skinner and Taweel can continue to be a force in the ISA and claim a victory for against both Greg's and Pius.


Any match reports from today's rep fixtures??

There a lot of Reports of todays Trials in the NSW Schools Section.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

./...snip.../.

Any match reports from today's rep fixtures??

Some banter on the NSW Schools 2013 thread
http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/community/threads/nsw-schools-2013.12600/page-4#post-500321

ISA I very impressive victory over CHS I 43-22.

ISA II recovered well to draw with CCC 38-38 after being 16 points behind at oranges.
Some work to do.

 

[Hell West & Crooked]

From the weekend St pats front 3 are the top form front rowers when it comes to the set piece securing countless number of tightheads i could only count kinross winning 3 of their own loosehead and feed.This is mainly to the credit of the tighthead and hooker. Also who was the rampaging 17 for st pats? and why wasn't he playing the whole match the replacement number 8 had two touches each gaining 30 + was creating terrors for kinross captain (flyhalf) exposing his defence. In the case of the st pats kinross fixture i believe st pats lost it when they had ample amount of oppourtunity with 3 penalties all kickable places to put the dagger in the coffin with a penalty kick but oppting instead to go for seven which lead to a turnover giving kinross possesion leading to the try.

I did not see the game, and so do not wish to comment on it only to respond to a couple of earlier posts to this effect; It has never been part of the Rugby Culture at Strathfield to bleat about the Result, or blame the Ref - (no matter how justified or unjustified such blame may be) - rather, it has been a long-admired tradition of leaving your results on the field, and then shaking hands after the game, Losing graciously, is often harder than Winning in the same manner (unless you are Clive Woodward) - and this has long been coached into the men in black.

Life will go against you sometimes, and sometimes often... Well-done to Kinross on a good result and a strong season!