Scrum tactics
- Thread starter Gnostic
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The Ref always told the half back to put the ball in. Actually he gave the half back permission to 'address' the scrum after it was stable.
And I agree a scrum is not the hit. It's the stuff that comes after it. the hit is an abomination and has rightly been banned. The worst thing to happen to rugby in the 40 years I've been involved.
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And I agree a scrum is not the hit. It's the stuff that comes after it. the hit is an abomination and has rightly been banned. The worst thing to happen to rugby in the 40 years I've been involved.
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FilthRugby
Nicholas Shehadie (39)
I respectively disagree, I think the best part of the scrum is the hit. The 'crouch, touch, set' should stay, I have no idea why the IRB keep changing the laws. Brian Moore is a strong advocate for keeping the hit, and I have to say I agree with him. Kearns, doesn't explain it well enough, he just felt like bad-mouthing the referee.
As a staunch Wallabies supporter, I have to admit, that the All Blacks scrum is stronger, when you have the experience of Woodcock, Franks, Mealamu, Crockett and Hore. I just thought the contest was lost with the scrums last Saturday. I understand that the pre-binding scrums weren't ideal, due to it being the first time tried in a Bledisloe. Honestly, I just don't see the point in constantly looking at the scrum laws, just keep the current system.
FilthRugby
Nicholas Shehadie (39)
haha, cheers Sull, I got the Bulldog wrong, I meant Shane Byrne.
Scoey
Tony Shaw (54)
The new laws will be great for the game. To many, I'm sure, it will look like a minor tweak and they may not get why there will be a quite obvious 'bedding down' period while players make the adjustment. To most that have played in the tight five (and I would hazard a guess at all that have played in the front row), they will understand that this is a fundamental change in scrummaging and will require a lot of players to re-learn how to scrummage. This is a big deal, but the game will be better for it.
The game is better off without the scrum power hit.
There are still a couple of areas to be sorted out before it reverts to the good old fashioned team finessed contest for the ball.
The benefits of the old scrum:
team work between hooker and scrum half
team work between the entire scrum and the half
coordination between the half and the No 8
2nd row actually channelling the pill back whilst actually contributing to the scrum push
loose forwards having to actually contribute to the push on the props instead of meerkating
Good progress so far. Coaches and players have a bit of work to do yet to get it right.
There are still a couple of areas to be sorted out before it reverts to the good old fashioned team finessed contest for the ball.
The benefits of the old scrum:
team work between hooker and scrum half
team work between the entire scrum and the half
coordination between the half and the No 8
2nd row actually channelling the pill back whilst actually contributing to the scrum push
loose forwards having to actually contribute to the push on the props instead of meerkating
Good progress so far. Coaches and players have a bit of work to do yet to get it right.
Bardon
Peter Fenwicke (45)
Here's an article on the reaction of Richard Cockerill to the new scrum laws. You can always rely on him for a bit of drama.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/23888263
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/23888263
Dam0
Dave Cowper (27)
Some silly stuff from Cockerill there. If anything the new scrum laws have made the scrum more competitive rather than less so. Far from being a Southern Hemisphere conspiracy to depower the scrum, I think early indications are that fielding a weakened scrum with glorified flankers as props will be a mistake.
Pfitzy
George Gregan (70)
Blades made some good points last night - particularly around the danger to hookers. If the scrum is packing level, and then collapses when the hooker has his leg up for a strike, then he's in serious danger of injury, and career- or life-ending.
All refs should be instructed to ensure the front rows have their shoulders ABOVE their hips at all times. In addition, they need to have their binds on properly - nothing on the arm, nothing on the side. Everything on the BACK.
Sort these two things out, penalise the fuck out of anyone who doesn't, and we'll cut out this nonsense of defending hookers pushing instead of striking.
All refs should be instructed to ensure the front rows have their shoulders ABOVE their hips at all times. In addition, they need to have their binds on properly - nothing on the arm, nothing on the side. Everything on the BACK.
Sort these two things out, penalise the fuck out of anyone who doesn't, and we'll cut out this nonsense of defending hookers pushing instead of striking.
Mank
Ted Thorn (20)
Absolute nonsense, could not disagree more. Where is the dislike button? Look at old school scrums please!
Despite what people here are saying I think the scrums are an improvement with the new laws. More completions for start (no stats, just a hunch). However, I stand by my previous post that they have not gone far enough in removing the hit. It is still there to some extent. Get the engage and bind stable, with no hit required, then call "Scrum!". At this point the two scrums can go hell to leather at each other and the scrummie has, say, 3 seconds to put the ball in (straight!) or it's turnover. If his team is on the back foot at this point, so be it.
The scrum issues under the new laws are mere teething problems as the old players adjust to the new rules.
Don't know what everyone if whinging about. Coaches and players simply need to readjust and adapt instead of worrying about what they have been comfortable with over the past decade or so. There are any number of old club stalwarts around who would have trained and played (or even coaches) in the olden days when hookers hooked and scrums were a contested restart with a slight advantage to the feeding team.
Don't know what everyone if whinging about. Coaches and players simply need to readjust and adapt instead of worrying about what they have been comfortable with over the past decade or so. There are any number of old club stalwarts around who would have trained and played (or even coaches) in the olden days when hookers hooked and scrums were a contested restart with a slight advantage to the feeding team.
Dan54
Tim Horan (67)
Man there was always going to be teething problems with new laws, Pfitzy, you will probably never get defending hooker to strike, as there is more adventage just putting on a big shove, always was before the hit too, it will sort itself out. The big thing is most of damage is done in second shove teams are putting in, and think a part could be 8s etc getting used to ball coming back different channel, so they may relax push sometimes to control ball. just a wild thought, but I do think teams are being pushed off ball they have already won. And that certainly is rewarding good scrummaging teams.
wamberal
Phil Kearns (64)
Eight men shoving will usually beat seven. Given that the side with the supposed advantage is forced to rely on a seven man shove, so that the hooker can strike for the ball, where is the advantage?
It will reach the point where a dominant side will deliberately knock the ball on to force a defensive scrum. Ridiculous.
It will reach the point where a dominant side will deliberately knock the ball on to force a defensive scrum. Ridiculous.
It seemed to work in the old days with only 7 shoving on the scrum feeding team against potentially 8 from the non feeding team.
Maybe the Hooker needs to complete his hooking action rather quickly and then adopt a pushing stance.
The meerkat flankers will need to learn how to contribute to the push in the scrum if you expect to see 8 pushing against 7. For the last decade they have been involved in the hit and little else. As soon as the hit was finished, you would see the meerkat back rowers more or less detach from the scrum, maintaining a "bind" by holding on to the second rowers jumpers and no shoulder contact. Hardly pushing.
Maybe the Hooker needs to complete his hooking action rather quickly and then adopt a pushing stance.
The meerkat flankers will need to learn how to contribute to the push in the scrum if you expect to see 8 pushing against 7. For the last decade they have been involved in the hit and little else. As soon as the hit was finished, you would see the meerkat back rowers more or less detach from the scrum, maintaining a "bind" by holding on to the second rowers jumpers and no shoulder contact. Hardly pushing.
Dam0
Dave Cowper (27)
I think you are overstating the case. The odd tighthead and the odd time where a team is pushed off their ball is not a bad thing.
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