All Blacks v Springboks - Eden Park, Sept 14th 2013

[Hawko]

You flatter me!

Dan, maybe I am a bit harsh, but we have always called for refs to be accountable for their actions. The frustrating part for the coaches, players and public is that they have such a closed society. Maybe they should have a ranking system and they move up and down according to their latest performance.

I think you'll find they do, they just don't publish it for all to see. Maybe it would help with transparency if they did, but I suspect that people would still be taking issue with performance comparisons anyway.

 

[Bullrush]

No, I have accepted it was legal. That's not to say it wasn't dangerous though. Are you saying the tackle wasn't dangerous, even with the shoulder-lead and the body-slam, etc?

1. All good tackles are potentially dangerous. So what?

2. Carter was injured because he fell on his shoulder the wrong way. That can happen in almost any tackle on the field.

3. So what if he lead with the shoulder? That's how you make a good tackle. What else should a player lead with?

4. So what if BdP smashed Carter (body-slam?!?). All the best players want to make crunching tackles that hurts (yes - hurts) the recepient. I still remember Michael Jones being asked how, as a good practicing christian, how he could hit people so hard. His answer, "Well, as the bible itself says, it is better to give than receive."

If the tackle is legal, stop talking about it like it wasn't eg. 'dangerous', 'shoulder-lead' etc...

 

[Dan54]

You flatter me!

Dan, maybe I am a bit harsh, but we have always called for refs to be accountable for their actions. The frustrating part for the coaches, players and public is that they have such a closed society. Maybe they should have a ranking system and they move up and down according to their latest performance.

Apart from Poite's clanger in the first half he did not have a bad game and the only mistake he made with the BdP call was not asking the TMO to have a look at the whole incident. He had made up his mind already about the tackle.

Yep Baldric, mate I wasn't meaning you, lol so sorry if I flattered you, and sure wasn't trying suggest that noone accountable as I believe Refs should be, as should players.

 

[Baldric]

Dan, the irony is that I am a ref. You did not want to be watching the game with me on Sat night. You would have learned some new words.

 

[PaarlBok]

Ok fair enough Paarl, I am happy to accept that you think getting elbowed in neck or wherever is perfectly legal, and anyone that recieves and goes to ground is diving. Perhaps we all have to accept we see rules as different, and as you seem to indicate it how you learn to fend in SA, so perhaps we will move on. I still think BDP is a great player, but has to be a little careful he's not remembered for accidently using elbows and accidently eye gouging, because I really would love him to be as respected outside of SA as in it for his playing ability, and unfortunately, perhaps rest of world rightly or wrongly, aren't quite as accepting as SA on these things. Think how Richard Loe is thought of, and Schalk Burger who tends to be remembered as an eye gouger and not how good he played.

I'll leave it to you to spot the differense. Look like tet twos is the better option these days.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-AK (Andrew Kellaway)-prn1/544536_635772166444488_2128497446_n.jpg

 

[Zander]

There's a difference clearly. Barritt is falling. Messam's elbow/arm is not raised at the neck.

 

[PaarlBok]

There's a difference clearly. Barritt is falling. Messam's elbow/arm is not raised at the neck.

Nope the top one you'll call fending, the bottom one is thuggery. A yellow for this is a big fat joke. Penalty at the most.

 

[Zander]

Paarl, Bismarck's second was definitely yellow worthy, he raised his forearm and made contact with Messam's neck. That's a trait of his and I'm glad it's finally being dealt with. Everyone is in agreement that the first yellow was a joke.

 

[Bullrush]

I'll leave it to you to spot the differense. Look like tet twos is the better option these days.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-AK (Andrew Kellaway)-prn1/544536_635772166444488_2128497446_n.jpg

Wow.....this picture actually shows HOW DIFFERENT both these actions are.

I'll give you a hint: where are the elbows on each picture connecting with the tackler?

 

[Bullrush]

In combat art forms, the elbow is seen as a formidable weapon used to strike the opponent. Forearms are used more for blocking, protection and fending off attacks.

Let's just say that there's not too many lethal forearm attack techniques that I can think of off the top of my head.....

 

[PaarlBok]

In combat art forms, the elbow is seen as a formidable weapon used to strike the opponent. Forearms are used more for blocking, protection and fending off attacks.

Let's just say that there's not too many lethal forearm attack techniques that I can think of off the top of my head...

Deffensive wise to combat elbows is to go for the ankles. A skill that got lost in the modern day rugby.

 

[Blue]

I propose that everyone in this thread elbows themselves several time in the head.

That will make it stop.

 

[Bullrush]

Deffensive wise to combat elbows is to go for the ankles. A skill that got lost in the modern day rugby.

Like BdP went for Dan Carter's ankles?? Or are only the Bok players allowed to go for dominant tackles

 

[PaarlBok]

Like BdP went for Dan Carter's ankles?? Or are only the Bok players allowed to go for dominant tackles

I think its the League thing. Going for the ball. In the older days tackling low was as part of the basics as line out jumping or scrumming. If you are a monster like Battleship you can go in as you like altho he have been knock down by Etsebeth going in high. The bigger the attacking player is , the harder he will fall if you tackle around the ankles. Juan de Jongh perfected this technique. Small player, big on deffense.

 

[Bullrush]

I think its the League thing. Going for the ball. In the older days tackling low was as part of the basics as line out jumping or scrumming. If you are a monster like Battleship you can go in as you like altho he have been knock down by Etsebeth going in high. The bigger the attacking player is , the harder he will fall if you tackle around the ankles. Juan de Jongh perfected this technique. Small player, big on deffense.

In saying that, guys like Geoff Toohvey could tackle like crazy in league back in the day and he was probably the smallest guy on the park 98% of the time. He was a classic, go-low and drop 'em tackler.

Sammy Tuitupou was a small guy who could put a big hit on the big guys. I remember a number of hits he put on props/locks etc that had their eyes rolling back and their breath knocked out of them for a min or two.

 

[RoffsChoice]

I'd say the second yellow was 50/50, either way was justified. Could be argued to be a fend gone wrong, or as an intentional shot at the neck.

 

[Bullrush]

I'd say the second yellow was 50/50, either way was justified. Could be argued to be a fend gone wrong, or as an intentional shot at the neck.

Yeah - agree. And I wouldn't comment on what BdP's intentions were.....I'm just saying the end result was what it was.

My gut feeling is that it was accidental - it was just a shame how everything worked out. Drew Mitchell would know all about it......

 

[Zander]

I don't think it was an accident, that's a trait of Bismarck's (and many other Boks) they use a high elbow fend in contact.

 

[Baldric]

I don't think it was an accident, that's a trait of Bismarck's (and many other Boks) they use a high elbow fend in contact.

Got any facts to back that up, or is that just a feeling?

 

[TooEasyWobbles]

All Blacks will win in SA. The SA guys are too big, they can't last.