Waratahs 2014

[lpd]

Can anyone recommend a game that he played for the Tahs this year, where he got some reasonable gametime? I want to see what all the hype is and have a proper look at him, instead of just saying 'but he's huuuuuuuge, he MUST be the solution to all our problems, just look at him"

against the lions?

 

[USARugger]

All of you calling for more aggression from Skelton need to re-watch what he did to some of the Lions boys.

He damn near broke a few of their backs (position, not anatomically).

He's incredibly young, especially for a lock and still has many seasons to develop as a player.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I think we need to keep the hype about Gigantor in perspective. He is a massive unit, no doubting that. He is also young, and as a second rower has a few more years to reach his prime, which under Uni and Tahs nurturing there is every chance that he will achieve in due course.

Excusing the pun, he has made giant steps so far from the great lump of a school kid playing part time school footy at Hills Sports High School to where he is now, but there is still a way to go. If Tahs and Uni are able to get him to his potential, and there is every reason to suggest that they will, then he could potentially be our Brad Thorn and dominate rugby for an extended period.

The kid is in a good space now. There is plenty of work to go. I think we should leave him alone and not load him up with expectations just yet. Leave Uni and Chieka to finish their work on him.

As others have said elsewhere, a unit that size uses a fair bit of petrol. ATM the tank could possibly be a bit bigger but there is plenty of time for that to be developed. Not that I am qualified in any way, but I reckon ATM he is about 5-8 kegs too big.


Brumbieman, probably worth trying to get your hands on the tape of the B&I Lions vs Tahs match. IIRC he really played out of his skin in that game, against decent level opponents.

 

[rams]

Well said HJ. Agree with everything re: Skelton. Let him develop, you cant put an old head on young shoulders but I think his time will come, for the sake of the Tahs & the Wallabies I sincerely hope so.

 

[Bruce Ross]

Throughout life I have always marched to a different beat. For thirty years I taught in an Economics Department despite believing - and publicly proclaiming - that the underlying theory of the discipline was fundamentally flawed. I even wrote a paper titled, "Towards an observational economics of business behaviour: the horizontal supply curve, 'fuzzy' demand and other anomalies for conventional theory," which really endeared me to my fellow economists.

That preamble is by way of explaining why it is that I seem to look at rugby matches differently to other people. I basically ignore referees, whom I categorise as "random decision generators", and I don't try to watch all of the players on the field. Instead I tend to focus on just a few players, often ones that I have had some involvement with. Thus it is with young Skelton, whom I have been watching since he started out in Colts as a huge unit without a lot of footballing nous.

But since his games for the Waratahs against the Lions and the Western Force I have been saying to anyone prepared to listen - and not a few who would prefer not to - that if he continued to develop he had the potential to develop into the only tight forward in living memory who would be a real crowd puller, à la mode de Jonah Lomu.

His innovatory mauling style, surfing through the middle of the maul to reach and then rag-doll the ball carrier, and his back-slam tackling style make him stand out. He still has much to learn in areas such as charging ahead with the ball in hand, but the signs of someone unique are already there. His physical conditioners will need to handle him very carefully as his sheer body mass necessarily imposes extra strains. And it may well be that he should always be used as a 60-minute player rather than being expected to see out the full game.

But he is a good kid with a great training ethic and thus far real humility. It will be fascinating to watch his progression.
.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Throughout life I have always marched to a different beat. For thirty years I taught in an Economics Department despite believing - and publicly proclaiming - that the underlying theory of the discipline was fundamentally flawed. I even wrote a paper titled, "Towards an observational economics of business behaviour: the horizontal supply curve, 'fuzzy' demand and other anomalies for conventional theory," which really endeared me to my fellow economists.

That preamble is by way of explaining why it is that I seem to look at rugby matches differently to other people. I basically ignore referees, whom I categorise as "random decision generators", and I don't try to watch all of the players on the field. Instead I tend to focus on just a few players, often ones that I have had some involvement with. Thus it is with young Skelton, whom I have been watching since he started out in Colts as a huge unit without a lot of footballing nous.

But since his games for the Waratahs against the Lions and the Western Force I have been saying to anyone prepared to listen - and not a few who would prefer not to - that if he continued to develop he had the potential to develop into the only tight forward in living memory who would be a real crowd puller, à la mode de Jonah Lomu.

His innovatory mauling style, surfing through the middle of the maul to reach and then rag-doll the ball carrier, and his back-slam tackling style make him stand out. He still has much to learn in areas such as charging ahead with the ball in hand, but the signs of someone unique are already there. His physical conditioners will need to handle him very carefully as his sheer body mass necessarily imposes extra strains. And it may well be that he should always be used as a 60-minute player rather than being expected to see out the full game.

But he is a good kid with a great training ethic and thus far real humility. It will be fascinating to watch his progression.
.

Really like this analysis. I thought one of his best skills against the Lions was his ability to disrupt their rolling mauls and get through and onto the ball carrier. From memory, did that a couple of times just 5m or thereabouts from the tryline. Great stuff.

To those who say leave him for another year or so to develop, I say he is ready now to take his place in the starting lineup or at worst on the bench for the Tahs in 2014. For comparison, look at how Ben Tamefuna has come on for the Chiefs and Waikato. Same weight and roughly same age, but playing arguably the hardest position for a young bloke, prop.

 

[fatprop]

But he is a good kid with a great training ethic and thus far real humility.

In my experience that is the key to being a successful human or rugby player.

Talent and/or physical attributes are lovely, but the "what is upstairs", or "attitude" decides the rest.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I don't think many have implied that he is not ready for Soup Rugby next season, just that there is more potential there to be developed before he will be at his "peak".

He could become a player of Jonah Lomu status, but he isn't there yet and don't expect him to be after his rookie year.

IIRC in his rookie year with the Darkness, Les Frogge made Jonah look very ordinary and he was dropped for a year or so. Not surprising Gigantic Schoolboy No8 promoted to All Black Wing in his first year out of school. As Bruce Ross has stated, players need to develop rugby nous and size/speed. After a year in the wilderness in which time Jonah developed the necessary rugby nous for a wing and the rest is history.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Can anyone recommend a game that he played for the Tahs this year, where he got some reasonable gametime? I want to see what all the hype is and have a proper look at him, instead of just saying 'but he's huuuuuuuge, he MUST be the solution to all our problems, just look at him"

Force v Tahs @ NIB. Essentially the Tahs A team with the inclusion of a few starters. He was prominent.

 

[Crazy Grey]

Any thoughts on who people think will be the major competitors next year and which teams might not be up the top but could give us some trouble in the way the Cheetahs have recently

 

[Buster]

Throughout life I have always marched to a different beat. For thirty years I taught in an Economics Department despite believing - and publicly proclaiming - that the underlying theory of the discipline was fundamentally flawed. I even wrote a paper titled, "Towards an observational economics of business behaviour: the horizontal supply curve, 'fuzzy' demand and other anomalies for conventional theory," which really endeared me to my fellow economists.

That preamble is by way of explaining why it is that I seem to look at rugby matches differently to other people. I basically ignore referees, whom I categorise as "random decision generators", and I don't try to watch all of the players on the field. Instead I tend to focus on just a few players, often ones that I have had some involvement with. Thus it is with young Skelton, whom I have been watching since he started out in Colts as a huge unit without a lot of footballing nous.

But since his games for the Waratahs against the Lions and the Western Force I have been saying to anyone prepared to listen - and not a few who would prefer not to - that if he continued to develop he had the potential to develop into the only tight forward in living memory who would be a real crowd puller, à la mode de Jonah Lomu.

His innovatory mauling style, surfing through the middle of the maul to reach and then rag-doll the ball carrier, and his back-slam tackling style make him stand out. He still has much to learn in areas such as charging ahead with the ball in hand, but the signs of someone unique are already there. His physical conditioners will need to handle him very carefully as his sheer body mass necessarily imposes extra strains. And it may well be that he should always be used as a 60-minute player rather than being expected to see out the full game.

But he is a good kid with a great training ethic and thus far real humility. It will be fascinating to watch his progression.
.

Bruce, I hope you're right. He is the only monster mountain I can actually see with the potential to become a darkness killer (day walker for any south park fans out there). If what you say is right, let's get this tank training at 8 and get foley feeding him some flat mid field ball and watch the skittles fly!

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Any thoughts on who people think will be the major competitors next year and which teams might not be up the top but could give us some trouble in the way the Cheetahs have recently

The Rebels if you take there form in the second half of the season as an indicator. If they didn't have such a pourous defensive line they would have knocked off the Chiefs and Crusaders.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I don't think many have implied that he is not ready for Soup Rugby next season, just that there is more potential there to be developed before he will be at his "peak".

He could become a player of Jonah Lomu status, but he isn't there yet and don't expect him to be after his rookie year.

IIRC in his rookie year with the Darkness, Les Frogge made Jonah look very ordinary and he was dropped for a year or so. Not surprising Gigantic Schoolboy No8 promoted to All Black Wing in his first year out of school. As Bruce Ross has stated, players need to develop rugby nous and size/speed. After a year in the wilderness in which time Jonah developed the necessary rugby nous for a wing and the rest is history.

Not suggesting he will play on the wing I hope? Think he will fit perfectly on the bench to support Douglas & Potgeiter next year.

 

[en_force_er]

Bruce, I hope you're right. He is the only monster mountain I can actually see with the potential to become a darkness killer (day walker for any south park fans out there). If what you say is right, let's get this tank training at 8 and get foley feeding him some flat mid field ball and watch the skittles fly!

Or you could realise the only real difference between an 8 and lock is position in the scrum. Anything else is a construct of what coaches/fans want/expect from a position, not a requirement. This is why professional teams don't always play their big man at 8, because the number 1 skill they look for in an 8 is cleverness/decision making at the back of the scrum.

Skelton can do what Skelton does regardless of the number and position he packs at in the scrum. We as rugby folk need to stop being closed minded positionally (though there's still obviously a balance that needs to be stuck in terms of what skills you get collectively from your team).

 

[RoffsChoice]

See Peter Kimlin.

 

[Buster]

Or you could realise the only real difference between an 8 and lock is position in the scrum. Anything else is a construct of what coaches/fans want/expect from a position, not a requirement. This is why professional teams don't always play their big man at 8, because the number 1 skill they look for in an 8 is cleverness/decision making at the back of the scrum.

Skelton can do what Skelton does regardless of the number and position he packs at in the scrum. We as rugby folk need to stop being closed minded positionally (though there's still obviously a balance that needs to be stuck in terms of what skills you get collectively from your team).

Understand your point, but, this is what we are missing, a big unit who does make good decisions, like when to pick and go and to be that bit looser, which is generally more accepted of an 8 rather then a 4 or 5. I also think by using him there, we may be able tombringon some more size and bulk in the row to sure up the scrum, only problem is I'm not sure we have any bulk around.

 

[Lee Grant]

The Tahs are doing a media survey.

Where do think the Tahs do well or not so well in the info they provide.

No bullshitty long paragraphs please - just one or two short sentences. (Although that goes against my nature. )
.

 

[Braveheart81]

@Lee Grant - The various emails and match reports to members have been great. I enjoy the analysis and hearing from each of the coaches.

One thing I would really like improved is injury reporting. Let the members/fans know how players who are currently out are progressing. How many weeks until they're expected back etc.

The facebook stuff they have put out in the last year or so has been pretty good. Photos of training and players visiting schools etc. are really good.

 

[Richo]

Lee,

I second the point about the match reports. I also like that we get them from different coaches -- it gives different angles onto the game.

It would be great to hear more about who is coming in for training sessions and how they are performing. Same for the EPS. At the moment it can be hard to know how the broader squad is fairing. Doesn't need to be much.

 

[Rob42]

Agree the reports from coaches have been very good - they read as though they were actually written by the coach and not by some media intern - direct and to the point.

To get nostalgic for a moment, I really miss the Tah Talk podcast. From when I was only a peripheral Tahs fan, it really got me into the team, I felt as though I knew many of the squad - especially the non-stars - far better through it than any number of newspaper inches. It has to be done well, though.