The League Media
- Thread starter spikhaza
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I will try and respond as best as I can to the worthwhile posts.
Re - evidence the union media bashes league - that culture thing was taken from a post here about a league media person getting defensive at a union person knocking the culture of league in respect of kurtley beale defecting to league.
I am sure there are thousands more being the nature of the beast on both sides.
Re - People calling union , yawnion, well read the last page and see all the references to loig , hugby league etc etc. Much of a muchness.
Re - Pfitzy being proud of being trolled. Congrats.
Re - The speed of the game. totally off topic but it was raised and is worthy of being addressed.
Statistically, the ball is run further and passed more and further in league. There are more live plays in league and more passes per actual play. In terms of speed of the play the ball being compared to a ruck, you are kidding.
On a fast non contested ruck would be a couple of seconds before the ball is fired out the back or dummy half run from another forward. Similar to a normal league ptb. However, loads of union rucks are both contested or used to setup the play where the ball just sits there drastically pulling up the average speed.
Also in reference to the speed of the game it should be noted that union spends a lot of time setting up line outs and scrums (and resetting scrums) where the ball isn't moving anywehere fast which again is affecting the speed of the game.
If you want to compare the games and you are looking for strengths for union look at the contest for possession, don't try and pretend it is stronger in areas it is not, if impacts your credibility.
Re - tries and penalties, there was only 3 (I think) tries scored in origin 2 and it was widely criticized as a dour game of football, great theatre, awesome to see NSW break the streak, but a dour game of football. In bledisloe 1 - there were ZERO tries. I will repeat ZERO tries scored and it was rightly criticized.
Also it should be noted that in league a lower amount of tries game may just be because a - the attack was to crap or the defence was too good. Whereas in union you can get a ZERO (or low try) game because neither team has even had a crack at scoring them, played safe plays not wanting to risk a knock on or turnover and gone for penalty goals. That might be your cup of tea but don't get defensive when a league supporter or a general sport follower criticizes such dour defensive garbage, as they would for any sporting side that takes such negative tactics - see certain soccer teams for example.
I think it would be handy if people recognised why they follow union and that will help you from being trolled by other sports as you wont be so defensive about it.
1 - You were bought up in the game, you like it and you couldn't be stuffed trying something else. You are happy with what you have. If so who gives a toss what other codes media say about your game.
2 - You genuinely believe every aspect of union is better then every aspect of every other game including league. - you are deluded and expect to get trolled, who knows the trolling might bring you out the insane asylum.
3 - You come from wealthy circumstances and you see union as part of your status. Again why give a f*ck what league media thinks as they are not part of your super duper status anyways.
I could go on but hopefully you get my point.
Re - evidence the union media bashes league - that culture thing was taken from a post here about a league media person getting defensive at a union person knocking the culture of league in respect of kurtley beale defecting to league.
I am sure there are thousands more being the nature of the beast on both sides.
Re - People calling union , yawnion, well read the last page and see all the references to loig , hugby league etc etc. Much of a muchness.
Re - Pfitzy being proud of being trolled. Congrats.
Re - The speed of the game. totally off topic but it was raised and is worthy of being addressed.
Statistically, the ball is run further and passed more and further in league. There are more live plays in league and more passes per actual play. In terms of speed of the play the ball being compared to a ruck, you are kidding.
On a fast non contested ruck would be a couple of seconds before the ball is fired out the back or dummy half run from another forward. Similar to a normal league ptb. However, loads of union rucks are both contested or used to setup the play where the ball just sits there drastically pulling up the average speed.
Also in reference to the speed of the game it should be noted that union spends a lot of time setting up line outs and scrums (and resetting scrums) where the ball isn't moving anywehere fast which again is affecting the speed of the game.
If you want to compare the games and you are looking for strengths for union look at the contest for possession, don't try and pretend it is stronger in areas it is not, if impacts your credibility.
Re - tries and penalties, there was only 3 (I think) tries scored in origin 2 and it was widely criticized as a dour game of football, great theatre, awesome to see NSW break the streak, but a dour game of football. In bledisloe 1 - there were ZERO tries. I will repeat ZERO tries scored and it was rightly criticized.
Also it should be noted that in league a lower amount of tries game may just be because a - the attack was to crap or the defence was too good. Whereas in union you can get a ZERO (or low try) game because neither team has even had a crack at scoring them, played safe plays not wanting to risk a knock on or turnover and gone for penalty goals. That might be your cup of tea but don't get defensive when a league supporter or a general sport follower criticizes such dour defensive garbage, as they would for any sporting side that takes such negative tactics - see certain soccer teams for example.
I think it would be handy if people recognised why they follow union and that will help you from being trolled by other sports as you wont be so defensive about it.
1 - You were bought up in the game, you like it and you couldn't be stuffed trying something else. You are happy with what you have. If so who gives a toss what other codes media say about your game.
2 - You genuinely believe every aspect of union is better then every aspect of every other game including league. - you are deluded and expect to get trolled, who knows the trolling might bring you out the insane asylum.
3 - You come from wealthy circumstances and you see union as part of your status. Again why give a f*ck what league media thinks as they are not part of your super duper status anyways.
I could go on but hopefully you get my point.
oh one I forgot - the mick hancock writhing on the ground.
As you may know, if you hold someone down when they are trying to get up in league you can get called for a penalty (generally dependent on whether the ref considers it to long or not (dominant tackles and submitting also considered)).
So if you just lie on the ground without trying to get up , or making it obvious that your trying to get up, you will always get a slow play the ball as the defenders in no rush to get off you and the ref won't help you.
Pretty reasonable concept I believe. In fact it craps me when people don't show enough urgency about getting a quick play the ball.
As you may know, if you hold someone down when they are trying to get up in league you can get called for a penalty (generally dependent on whether the ref considers it to long or not (dominant tackles and submitting also considered)).
So if you just lie on the ground without trying to get up , or making it obvious that your trying to get up, you will always get a slow play the ball as the defenders in no rush to get off you and the ref won't help you.
Pretty reasonable concept I believe. In fact it craps me when people don't show enough urgency about getting a quick play the ball.
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
Just because tries aren't scored, it doesn't mean nobody is trying to score them.
I know, but as you would know a one off the ruck play or dummy half run/pick runner is less likely to score a try then a play that asks a few questions or a play that comes from a fast ptb/ruck.
however, fast rucks/ptb and question asking plays have more risk, so your team needs to have the balls to do it.
For example the waratahs this year took a lot more risks and played with bigger balls then other union/ pick a sport sides have done in the past. And good on them for being rewarded for it.
however, fast rucks/ptb and question asking plays have more risk, so your team needs to have the balls to do it.
For example the waratahs this year took a lot more risks and played with bigger balls then other union/ pick a sport sides have done in the past. And good on them for being rewarded for it.
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
And also faster isn't necessarily better. If that was the case wouldn't we all just ditch codes of footy and watch 100m sprints?
League is certainly faster, but you cannot tell me the ball is passed more and is more expansive. Generally there is only ever one tackle per set which sees more than a pass from the dummy half.
League is certainly faster, but you cannot tell me the ball is passed more and is more expansive. Generally there is only ever one tackle per set which sees more than a pass from the dummy half.
Dctarget
John Eales (66)
Hey could someone explain to me the scrum rule in League? I always thought they weren't contested but I saw the other day one team completely destroyed the other in the scrum. What's up with this? Is there like a mutual agreement between everyone not to push?
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The faster issue was bought up by a fellow saying union was just as fast as league.
In terms of passing I stand by my comments and my mental statistics. If you want just count how many times the ball is passed in the first and last ten minutes of each game and you would be astounded at the difference.
But just to generalise.
In a bat shit crap set of league you might have two dummy half runs and two runs off the ruck and pass to a half who will kick.
In a bat shit crap few plays of union you will get a couple of pick up ball runs to nowhere and then a kick from the 9 or 10. the ball has been passed in league 3 times to unions 1. Maybe give the union guys another pass but really if the scrum half gets his hands on the ball early hes probably gonna kick it when in a shitty phase.
In say an average league set where you get the seven tackles from a kick gone dead.
play 1 - dummy tap and run. play 2 hit up with maybe forward passing to forward 1.5 passes. play 3 potentially same as play 2 say another 1.5 passes. play 4 dummy half to ball player who decides which runner he wants to hit, if no break 2 passes. play 5 move the ball in either a simple wide shift or a wide block play using the fullback then pass to winger or centre or back inside depending on fullbacks skills and where the space is - 3 passes. play 6 - depends on where the ball is but u want to put the bomb up from the middle of the field - so lets say two passes with a ball player giving it off to a forward to setup a quick play the ball for the last - 2 passes. play 6 - pass to half who kicks - 1 pass.
League average set = 11
Union average/good set of 5-8 phases (though I would say they are doing well if they haven't kicked it by then).
You have atleast 2 or 3 ball hog pick runs with no passes. 2 simple plays with 1 pass to someone to hit it up, 2 - ball player settler plays where the 10 might try to do something with a runner inside or outside 2 passes each play. Lets say one spread with 3 passes and one pass for a kick.
union average / good set = 9 passes.
Now when league gets into an attacking position they have to do a lot more spread plays and less simple plays so you are going to see the ball go through the hands a lot more because u only got 6 shots at the cherry 15-30 passes depending on the position.
Union in a good position, rarely will spread unless an overlap is clearly on or run something to risky because they have unlimited possession and don't want to loss it by sending the ball away from team mates lets just say a few more passes then described above.10-14 or so.
Eitherway the ball gets passed more in league because it has to be if you want to win.
Play a game of oztag where you have 4 tags per set verse one with unlimited tags and tell me in which game was the ball passed more per play. Exagerrating to make my point but still it remains.
In terms of passing I stand by my comments and my mental statistics. If you want just count how many times the ball is passed in the first and last ten minutes of each game and you would be astounded at the difference.
But just to generalise.
In a bat shit crap set of league you might have two dummy half runs and two runs off the ruck and pass to a half who will kick.
In a bat shit crap few plays of union you will get a couple of pick up ball runs to nowhere and then a kick from the 9 or 10. the ball has been passed in league 3 times to unions 1. Maybe give the union guys another pass but really if the scrum half gets his hands on the ball early hes probably gonna kick it when in a shitty phase.
In say an average league set where you get the seven tackles from a kick gone dead.
play 1 - dummy tap and run. play 2 hit up with maybe forward passing to forward 1.5 passes. play 3 potentially same as play 2 say another 1.5 passes. play 4 dummy half to ball player who decides which runner he wants to hit, if no break 2 passes. play 5 move the ball in either a simple wide shift or a wide block play using the fullback then pass to winger or centre or back inside depending on fullbacks skills and where the space is - 3 passes. play 6 - depends on where the ball is but u want to put the bomb up from the middle of the field - so lets say two passes with a ball player giving it off to a forward to setup a quick play the ball for the last - 2 passes. play 6 - pass to half who kicks - 1 pass.
League average set = 11
Union average/good set of 5-8 phases (though I would say they are doing well if they haven't kicked it by then).
You have atleast 2 or 3 ball hog pick runs with no passes. 2 simple plays with 1 pass to someone to hit it up, 2 - ball player settler plays where the 10 might try to do something with a runner inside or outside 2 passes each play. Lets say one spread with 3 passes and one pass for a kick.
union average / good set = 9 passes.
Now when league gets into an attacking position they have to do a lot more spread plays and less simple plays so you are going to see the ball go through the hands a lot more because u only got 6 shots at the cherry 15-30 passes depending on the position.
Union in a good position, rarely will spread unless an overlap is clearly on or run something to risky because they have unlimited possession and don't want to loss it by sending the ball away from team mates lets just say a few more passes then described above.10-14 or so.
Eitherway the ball gets passed more in league because it has to be if you want to win.
Play a game of oztag where you have 4 tags per set verse one with unlimited tags and tell me in which game was the ball passed more per play. Exagerrating to make my point but still it remains.
Soccer is more popular then union when considering the rest of the world.
Unless soccer is a better game then rugby how do you explain that?
AFL is probably the most popular sport in aus but is certainly not the best how do you explain that?
Re union and leagues worldwide popularity, pretty simple a lot of that popularity is due
1 - to union being better and more successful then league in preaching and spreading the sport.
2 - Popularity in france - For different reasons - I do not need to give you a history lesson nor do I want to get banned.
3 - Puts more money into its international development.
4 - It is probably a less "scary" sport for amateur and pub teams to take up and has better infrastructure in that regard due to point 1.
5 - Im pretty sure wales switched to league but didn't stay with it due to lack of competition / infrastructure etc see point 4 and 1 again? maybe I am wrong there I just read it somewhere.
6 - I think point one should also be considered in the light of the context of the two sports when they broke apart, if you have poor northern miners playing league and rich southerners playing union, it stands to logic that the rich southerners would travel the world more and have more opportunity to spread their code of choice.
Unless soccer is a better game then rugby how do you explain that?
AFL is probably the most popular sport in aus but is certainly not the best how do you explain that?
Re union and leagues worldwide popularity, pretty simple a lot of that popularity is due
1 - to union being better and more successful then league in preaching and spreading the sport.
2 - Popularity in france - For different reasons - I do not need to give you a history lesson nor do I want to get banned.
3 - Puts more money into its international development.
4 - It is probably a less "scary" sport for amateur and pub teams to take up and has better infrastructure in that regard due to point 1.
5 - Im pretty sure wales switched to league but didn't stay with it due to lack of competition / infrastructure etc see point 4 and 1 again? maybe I am wrong there I just read it somewhere.
6 - I think point one should also be considered in the light of the context of the two sports when they broke apart, if you have poor northern miners playing league and rich southerners playing union, it stands to logic that the rich southerners would travel the world more and have more opportunity to spread their code of choice.
mxyzptlk
Colin Windon (37)
They really need to get better wrestling coaches then, because there are about 7 ways I can think of off the top of my head that would get them up a lot more efficiently without looking like a flopping putz and accomplishing nothing.
mxyzptlk
Colin Windon (37)
I would prefer league got rid of wrestling coaches, the point of the game is to have 5-6 goes at trying to score a try or finish the set as close to scoring as you can, not learning sneaky ways to hold people down or sneaky ways to get up faster to counter the sneaky wrestling in the first place.
But you may be right on that point. Email in a resume
But you may be right on that point. Email in a resume
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
Why is AFL certainly not the best game?
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