Australian Schoolboys 2014

[Hugh Jarse]

Bronze Boot Winners 2014
The Bronze Boot is awarded to a player from each team “For the most constructive player in a Test Series”

Photo: Andrew at AustSchools Website

Australia: Connor Moroney, St Joseph's College, Gregory Terrace, QLD.
New Zealand: Patelesio Tomkinson, Otago Boys’ High School.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

^^^^ Have you made the assumption that the scouts from the dark side know what they are doing any better than the selectors and other clipboards on our side?

Up to a point.
Its not an easy job.
I mean we sit here and pick the stars - that's easy: its working out who is going to make the next level down from the stars or to pick the bolter with as yet unrealised potential that get hard.
And I guess it depends what sort of development horizon you are looking at: in union whats a kid going to do for the next, say, 3 years to earn a living. In league throw them in the Chrysler Cup and see how they go.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Yep. Realign, repave, repaint, widen and install lights and signage on the "Pathway To Gold". The Development Application for those works to upgrade the Pathway are with council awaiting approval.

Historically the Aust Schoolboys squad lose 4+ to the other side. Not many come back after the <insert car maker> Cup has finished with them. Not many go on to "proper" NRL contracts either.

 

[Dctarget]

I never realised how much of an indication school boys is. Having a look through the archives, there's been a minimum of 5 Super Rugby players per year which is quite incredible. So surely we'll be seeing a few of these lads around in green and gold within 5 or so years.

I'm in awe of the 2006 team:
Kurtley Beale, Quade Cooper, Ben Daley, Will Genia, James Hanson, Patrick McCabe,Ben Lucas, Patrick McCutcheon, Ben McCalman, David Pocock, Lachlan Turner

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Match Report from an NZ perspective:
College Sports: NZ see off comeback

By Campbell Burnes of the NZ Herald
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11337148

New Zealand Schools have retained the Trans-Tasman Shield, holding off a rousing Australian comeback to win in Porirua yesterday.
A dominant scrum, some judicious kicking and two superbly-executed tries from set plays saw New Zealand home, though they sealed the win with only three minutes to play when second-five Patelesio Tomkinson dived over between the uprights after first-five TJ Va'a held up the ball nicely.
A double by halfback Sam Nock was decisive, as was the six-from-seven goalkicking of fullback Jordan Trainor.
After Nock's second, New Zealand looked to have control with a 24-3 lead but a galvanised Australia posted three tries in less than 10 minutes, sparked by a solo effort from centre Izaia Perese.
Prominent for the home side were industrious openside Hayden Spencer and lock Quinten Strange.
In the curtainraiser, New Zealand Barbarians Schools maintained their unbeaten record with a tight 22-16 win over Fijian Schools, with fullback Shelford Murray scoring a brace.


New Zealand Schools 34 (S. Nock 2, J. Lowe, P. Tomkinson tries; J. Trainor 4 cons, 2 pens) Australian Schools 24 (I. Perese, C. Moroney, G. Luka tries; H. Goddard 3 cons, pen). Halftime: 17-0.

Seems they were watching a similar game to the one I saw.

Interesting to see that the NZ Barbarians struggled to put Fiji away, when both other opponents scored 50+ points against them.

This could go some part of the way to highlight the impact of playing 14 vs 15 against the Barbars, and also the gap between the Aust #1 team, and the Barbarians game team, many of whom were not selected in their preferred position for the Barbarians game.

 

[Lee Grant]

I never realised how much of an indication school boys is. Having a look through the archives, there's been a minimum of 5 Super Rugby players per year which is quite incredible. So surely we'll be seeing a few of these lads around in green and gold within 5 or so years.

I'm in awe of the 2006 team:
Kurtley Beale, Quade Cooper, Ben Daley, Will Genia, James Hanson, Patrick McCabe,Ben Lucas, Patrick McCutcheon, Ben McCalman, David Pocock, Lachlan Turner

Those are some good names aren't they?

But the're not all from 2006 (McCutcheon, the 2005 captain, had left school, and so had others).

I saw Genia play for Oz A Schools when they beat NZ Schools at Victoria Barracks (a cracking game) in 2005 but I don't think he ever played for the main team, because he was an Oz A reserve.

Lucas was the captain of that A team. He and Leali'ifano were the two Aussie flyhalves from 2004 but when Beale and Cooper appeared at the nationals in 2005, the older boys were relegated to the A's.

Future Wallabies who played for Aussie Schools in 2005 and 2006, in tests in Australia and/or went on tour in the UK etc in 2005 and/or Fiji/NZ 2006.

2005: Beale, Betham, Cooper, Daley, Hanson, McNamara, Pocock, Leali'fano, Turner, McCabe.

2006: Beale, Betham, Cooper, McNamara, Palmer, Ryan, Simmons, Charles, Horne, Davies, Tapuai.

All these fellows ended up playing in Schools "tests", sometime between 2004 and 2007.

But you're right about 2006 being a bumper year—eleven of the 26 tourists to Fiji and NZ ended up playing for the Wallabies.

But they lost to NZ Schools in Auckland 18-8
.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

And they're now in the prime of their careers and we are struggling at test level.
There is a problem.
The basic skills levels on display in the last week were not hugely different and yet at senior level they are miles apart.

 

[RugbyReg]

Who is McNamara Lee?

 

[Dctarget]

And what's Horwill's tale of ascension? Noticed he didn't feature in any of the school boy teams. BBC player I recall?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Who is McNamara Lee?

He's the Leader of the Band.

 

[Lee Grant]

Who is McNamara Lee?

Mistype for McCalman - it was 2am.
.

 

[Lee Grant]

And what's Horwill's tale of ascension? Noticed he didn't feature in any of the school boy teams. BBC player I recall?

Some players ascend after school. Ashley-Cooper played schools rep footie for CHS, but he really blossomed at the North Sydney club the following year.

Eales wasn't in Aus Schools and there are heaps of other examples.

Kearns and NFJ didn't even make the Newington First XV.
.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Have a read of this paper prepared by James Barkell, which examines the progression from Australian Schoolboy to senior representation in Australian Rugby Union.
http://sydney.edu.au/education_soci...ysh/hmhce/resources/HMHCE_Article_01_2013.pdf

The batting average isn't all that high, although some could say that the figures are a little skewed by including the hit and miss development procedures from the pre-professional days, as compared to the Koala Club academies that exist now to develop and produce the future of Rugby.

A damn fine read for those looking for a break from their HSC study, and good motivation for them to keep hitting the books because the numbers show the dice are stacked against making a fortune out of rugby as a professional player.

 

[Brian Westlake]

I agree Hugh they did get better but still a lot of
needed body position of front then the back
will take place

I did watch again NS, after this comment, and again I watched the back 5 of the scrum disintegrate. It was actually worse than the first time. The front 3 needed the support, not the other way 'round

 

[Brian Westlake]

You would want to think that a few more than 5 or 6 of the 25 players (not counting Jac Mac or Goddard who return to school next year) selected as the best Schoolboy talent in the country would be capable of eventually making it in to the big show (Super Rugby not Wallaby).

No.

Ed Craig plays in the Hugh Roach mould (Go Figure?), but is up against some fairly tough competition on a couple of years older, ie Vea, Carolan and Folau are all only just 20. And that is just Sydney lads.

Connor O'Shea is behind Deegan who is behind Horwitz who is behind Foley etc. But he will get somewhere, in time.

I think that Inside Shoulder is pretty on the mark with Morony too. Park your head in the front lounge sonny jim. He will be the only one of that back 5 that will achieve IMO.

The only one that I can see that will go on will be Fifita, if he gets good support behind him with a good scrummaging lock, not a medium tall kid averse to work. The dire shortage of THP's makes his stocks quite valuable.

All of the others need to get back and work on their respective games to achieve against last years and the year before aus schools players that have already made their marks like Mick Gunns in Qld or Dave Horwitz/ Andrew Kellaway

 

[Brian Westlake]

The other one I reckon who should move into the front row is Fox. Looks a definite higher grade prop.

Definitely have to spend a lot of time learning from a very technical advisor

Karl Hayman like

Nice application of pressure there

Fox is a converted prop. Played there in the Under 16's for Qld Red so the dark arts would not be unfamiliar territory for him.

Was this due to being big at this age?
He needs to work hard to play either side of the scrum and if you tried to compare to last years THP Matthew Sandell, I would disagree. Sandell being maybe 8 months older than this lad, leads in all facets of the game needed. scrummaging, tackling, lifting, mobility.
These are the things that he will come up against next year.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Nice application of pressure there

thats the only technical advice i can give

 

[Hugh Jarse]

You would want to think that a few more than 5 or 6 of the 25 players (not counting Jac Mac or Goddard who return to school next year) selected as the best Schoolboy talent in the country would be capable of eventually making it in to the big show (Super Rugby not Wallaby).

No.

I agree with you that there is a log jam of quality players ahead of this years Aust Schoolboys team as selected and that many of those on tour will struggle to make it, hence the careful use of words in my statement above. You may have missed the subtlety.

I don't disagree with @Lee Grants observations about past performances and successes at Teat level from this Coaching and Selection group. But like Happy Days, sooner or later, The Fonz attempts the shark jump in Arnold's car park.

If the batting average from the "Best of the Best" is 5/25 or lower as is likely to be the case this year, then one suspects that there is either something seriously wrong with the selection process and procedures, or the "elite" development process and procedures in the various academies and representative teams that litter the Pathway to Gold, or both.

It really says something about the quality (and consistency) of selectors when a player, deemed only capable of warranting selection in their school association's 2nd XV and is also rejected by their State selectors, is later a standout performer at the top level against the second best XV/XXIII that NZ has to offer.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

It really says something about the quality (and consistency) of selectors when a player, deemed only capable of warranting selection in their school association's 2nd XV and is also rejected by their State selectors, is later a standout performer at the top level against the second best XV/XXIII that NZ has to offer.

Who you referring to?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

^^^
Referring to Selectors: ISA and NSW Schools
Referring to Player: #12 Ned Yeomans.
Referring to Game: Australian Schoolboys vs NZ Barbarian Schools