Reds 2015

[Bobby Sands]

Watching Gill in the NRC tells me he is already in form, he has reason to feel unfairly left out of the EOYT.

Let him do a proper pre-season, he is still the best young seven in the country. Mark my words.

 

[Bobby Sands]

Bang on mate. He could form a deadly combo with Thompson. I'm sure I wasn't the only one who noticed that Schatz picked up his attacking game in the nrc game too.

Confidence as much as anything else though, Curtis didn't look as good as he looked in Super Rugby?

Jake has always has a good ball-running game, but I don't think he feels comfortable at super rugby just yet. Remembering that many of his contemporary back-rowers are only just starting to get game time at other provinces. It's a shame Quirky couldn't play in the NRC.

 

[Bobby Sands]

I thought McMahon was a little lucky to make the trip personally as he really isn't going to be an out and out test 6.

Nonsense.

 

[Train Without a Station]

As I noted in the Sean McMahon thread, size is not everything. But he would be one of the smallest 6's in world rugby. Putting on size will only affect his line out jumping. Most 6's are the size of a lock, or an 8 and McMahon is the size of many international 7's.

He's a great player, will play a lot of tests, but I doubt he will ever be a first choice 6. His best chance may be to add a little size and play as an 8.

 

[Set piece magic]

Yep agree with Reg on Schatz. It's pretty clear that the Reds playing squad knows their strengths and weaknesses better than anyone and I've noticed Schatz has developed the "second effort" mentality with his leg drive in the tackle.

My Fully Fit XV

1. Slipper
2. Hanson
3. Holmes
4. Simmons
5. Horwill
6. Thompson (IMO Thompson and Gill balance each other perfectly)
7. Gill
8. Schatz
9. Genia
10. Cooper
11. JOC (James O'Connor)
12. Tapuai
13. Kerevi
14. CFS/Turner
15. Hunt

That is a mean, mean starting XV on paper. We've got a bit of depth too. Quirk is a good bench player that can come on and tackle his heart out. Browning too. Bulldog Beau & Hendrik Tui round out a back row with strong depth.

I'm pretty pleased that one of CFS/Turner will have to be benched. That's a bit of genuine depth. JJ Taulagi will be better for the experience this year and while his attack is of super rugby standard his defense isn't there yet. Let him develop and where necessary have him as an impact player.

The Reds of this year with all their flaws had an absolutely lethal set piece. We stole a huge chunk of Waratah ball in the last round, and who could forget the pushover try we scored at scrum time against the brumbies.

Frisby will be breathing fire down Genia's neck which is exactly what they both need. Concerned with depth at 10 with departure of lucas, don't know much about Duncan Paia-aua.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Not sure about Thomson and Gill balancing each other out perfectly. Thomson is quite a loose player, and Gill as a 7 isn't as strong in the tight as a player like Pocock.

It's definitely a better balanced unit though as Schatz isn't a loose running option really, but we lack any real punch in tight.

 

[Bobby Sands]

Duncan can play, looks very assured as the starting 5/8 in the finals for the Broncos U20s, who went within a whisker of winning the comp. Other options JOC (James O'Connor), K, Mcintyre,

Our backrow depth, is championship deep. Add in Lolo and further back Gunn. We have backrowers for days.

Kurindrani looked lethal on a flank during the NRC, he will be pushing JJ hard for a squad birth.

McDuling in my opinion will be pushing hard for a starting birth.

Great squad.

The Achilles heal, Tight-head. Although Sef and Talakai look like good prospects. Will be good to get a look at Thor when we get him out of the biggest cotton-ball in history.

 

[Sully]

Watching Gill in the NRC tells me he is already in form, he has reason to feel unfairly left out of the EOYT.

Yes he looked best in the NRC. But to say he was unfairly left out of the EOYT is a wee bit optimistic. The guys who went were in Pretty good form and liamFnGill had Barkly been playing.


Edit: sorry I replied before reading on.

 

[TOCC]

Im not sure what has changed from 2014 to make the 2015 back-row a 'championship back-row', the addition of Thomson is an obvious improvement but the likelihood remains that the other two players starting are going to be a pair of Shatz, Robinson, Gill or Browning. All of whom were part of a back-row who were comprehensively outplayed in 2014.

Gill and Shatz both displayed good form at the NRC level, but id be cautious in believing that the same dominance will be carried over to Super Rugby level where the opposition is far superior.

 

[Redsfan]

Im not sure what has changed from 2014 to make the 2015 back-row a 'championship back-row', the addition of Thomson is an obvious improvement but the likelihood remains that the other two players starting are going to be a pair of Shatz, Robinson, Gill or Browning. All of whom were part of a back-row who were comprehensively outplayed in 2014.

Gill and Shatz both displayed good form at the NRC level, but id be cautious in believing that the same dominance will be carried over to Super Rugby level where the opposition is far superior.

I think that one of the most important factors for a better performance from our back-row next season will be the performance of our second-row. Neither Simmons or Horwill had stand-out seasons for the Reds, and I think that this increased the pressure on the loosies. I reckon that Cheika is just the man to get Horwill firing (not sure about Simmons), so as a pack I think we'll have better balance next year, especially with Thomson arriving.

 

[Bobby Sands]

Im not sure what has changed from 2014 to make the 2015 back-row a 'championship back-row', the addition of Thomson is an obvious improvement but the likelihood remains that the other two players starting are going to be a pair of Shatz, Robinson, Gill or Browning. All of whom were part of a back-row who were comprehensively outplayed in 2014.

Gill and Shatz both displayed good form at the NRC level, but id be cautious in believing that the same dominance will be carried over to Super Rugby level where the opposition is far superior.

Context.

"Championship deep" is what I actually said.

When you have experienced players such as Quirk, Browning, Beau or Tui missing out on the squad - it means your backrow is in very good shape.

It's also great that none of them are on tour, and get another full pre-season of physical development. Far more important in my opinion at this stage of their career. Shatz and Browning will eventually have playing weights of well over 110kgs.

 

[Jagman]

As I noted in the Sean McMahon thread, size is not everything. But he would be one of the smallest 6's in world rugby. Putting on size will only affect his line out jumping. Most 6's are the size of a lock, or an 8 and McMahon is the size of many international 7's.

He's a great player, will play a lot of tests, but I doubt he will ever be a first choice 6. His best chance may be to add a little size and play as an 8.

Interesting that you say that weight will affect his line-out jumping. Don't know anything about the science but in 2010 the Waratahs staff made Mowen put on 12 kgs and he could jump 10cm higher and yes after reducing a bit of that weight gain at the Brumbies proved himself as an international lineout caller.
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...r-and-faster-for-waratahs-20110130-1a9rk.html

 

[Train Without a Station]

I have heard comments like these but how true are they? For instance was Mowen's technique for the jumping that was measured as good on the baseline test as it was on the last test when he had repeated the movement over months?

Also Mowen became the most dominant line out player after losing that weight at the Brumbies for example.

The players jump is part of the lift, but the speed of the jump is the biggest part more than the actual height. In addition the same player with the same core strength, etc. will be harder (or rather slower) to lift if he is heavier.

 

[Bobby Sands]

No need to make it complex.

All we are talking about is power. It is also relatively easy to compare, as the standard measurement for power is the vertical jump.

You do not improve your vertical jump through weight or strength, but through plyometrics. The act of moving from extension to contraction as quickly as possible.

Based on his dynamism, I am sure Sean has a very healthy vertical jump.

 

[qwerty51]

Mowen had the most lineout steals in 2009 Super Rugby. That's when his jump would've been the highest - I find that claim that he increased his vertical jump significantly later on incredible. Vertical jump would be the biggest contributor to lineout steals as well as technical reading given you rely more on yourself than lifters to get up.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Mowen had the most lineout steals in 2009 Super Rugby. That's when his jump would've been the highest.

Shows the flaws in the discussion.

He had the most steals when he was the lightest. His jump allegedly increased when he was the heaviest.

There appears to be zero to minimal correlation between his jump records and his line out peak.

 

[brokendown]

white men can't jump

 

[cyclopath]

white men can't jump

Wot iv dey is Ali G?

 

[Scoey]

Effectiveness in a defensive lineout and ability to steal an oppo's throw is primarily to do with the jumper's ability to read the oppo's call/lineout first and foremost. Secondly it's speed to get into position and then get into the air (also relies on a good combination with lifters). Agility and technique in the air probably even ranks higher physical stats like weight and VJ height.

But all that being said, Ben Mowen's lineout ability in 2009 and whether or not McMahon deserved his EOYT spot probably doesn't have a lot to do with the Reds in 2015.

 

[Bobby Sands]

He a bloomin qlder m8. Always relevant