Wallaby 31 players for 2015 RWC

[Train Without a Station]

By the same token, Beale is also one of the few players we can select who has delivered in clutch situations for the Wallabies (and like most of our players, also failed in those situations).

Has he done so since 2010? At some point you need to say, it's been so long, we can no longer give a player credit for that quality. Much like Horwill and his dynamic, aggressive play.

Well I guess he's a bit too aggressive still, but you get my point.

 

[Braveheart81]

Has he done so since 2010? At some point you need to say, it's been so long, we can no longer give a player credit for that quality. Much like Horwill and his dynamic, aggressive play.

Well I guess he's a bit too aggressive still, but you get my point.

I agree on what he's done for the Wallabies. He was excellent in the Super Rugby final though so I'd still expect coaches consider him a big game player.

Unfortunately, it's hard to point to many clutch plays by anyone for the Wallabies in the last couple of years.

I don't think the premise of wanting players who can perform under extreme pressure is really going to have much influence on selections because I don't think you can easily pinpoint players who are majorly advantaged or disadvantaged by that.

 

[Omar Comin']

I can't see us using our last match before the RWC as a game to play the players outside our best 23. Trying to get our best team into peak form will be the major aim of this game in my opinion. I think we'll field a team very close to full strength.

You could be right, but I reckon Cheika will rest certain players. Probably most of the starting tight 5, especially if they play all of our other 4 games. And I think if there's anyone in the squad that got no game time in the RC they'll at least be on the bench.

Don't think you want anyone having to step up at the world cup not having played a match for 2-3 months.

 

[Joeleee]

I think "clutch" players are largely a myth brought about by looking at players performances across a small sample size. I certainly agree that some players are better under pressure and some worse, I just don't think it's that easy to see. Some examples of performing brilliantly "under pressure" from those supposedly weak players mentioned:

• Beale kick against SA in Bloemfentein I think to win for the Wallabies, last year's Super Rugby Final was a great performance
• Genia's solo wonder try in the 2011 Super Rugby final
• Foley's calm under pressure kick in the Super Rugby final last year

Conversely, some guys that would be considered great under pressure have also screwed up plenty under it as well. Michael Jordan has that famous quote that I won't paraphrase about missing more game winning shots than anyone else because he took more.

Not to mention if we're really talking about keeping players that perform well under pressure but getting rid of ones who haven't, you'd probably look to start Kurtley over QC (Quade Cooper) based on historical performance on that metric.

 

[RugbyReg]

Not to mention if we're really talking about keeping players that perform well under pressure but getting rid of ones who haven't, you'd probably look to start Kurtley over QC (Quade Cooper) based on historical performance on that metric.

 

[Shiggins]

Am I the only one who considers stirzacker our second best half back atm?

 

[Scrubber2050]

I


Not to mention if we're really talking about keeping players that perform well under pressure but getting rid of ones who haven't, you'd probably look to start Kurtley over QC (Quade Cooper) based on historical performance on that metric.

Are you serious ?

Mate it gave me a good laugh

 

[JJJ]

I think the Bloem kick and the Lions last-gasp penalty slip pretty much cancel each other out. Clutch player he is not.

 

[barbarian]

I think you need to be a bit more general though. I'm not too concerned about one or two cherry-picked moments, where the margin between hero and villain is paper thin.

I'd much prefer attention to be given to big game performers, guys who produce their best play in finals, or Bledisloes, or Lions games. This is where guys like Cliff Palu tend to fall back a bit, and guys like Hooper, Pocock, Slipper, Fardy, JOC (James O'Connor) and Folau come to the fore.

Bringing it back to specific moments clouds the debate a bit, as it can cast someone as brilliant for slotting an 81st minute kick to win it, completely neglecting their play for the preceeding 80 minutes of the game.

Likewise the reverse is also true- you could put in a pretty decent performance, but be forever tarred by one act of bad play. Quade Cooper in the RWC Semi Final springs to mind, here.
.

 

[Joeleee]

Are you serious ?

Mate it gave me a good laugh

Sorry, tone doesn't come across well over the internet, that was supposed to be a tongue in cheek comment, something of a reductio ad absurdum. My point is, Quade crumbled at the RWC in 2011, so by the logic of "shows up in pressure situations", he should be out. Kurtley played will in the Super final last year and has won numerous games for the Wallabies. My point is, "performs under pressure" is such a subjective measure, as there are so few examples of this "pressure", almost by definition, so one or two bad or good games swings the dial wildly.

 

[Joeleee]

I think you need to be a bit more general though. I'm not too concerned about one or two cherry-picked moments, where the margin between hero and villain is paper thin.

I'd much prefer attention to be given to big game performers, guys who produce their best play in finals, or Bledisloes, or Lions games. This is where guys like Cliff Palu tend to fall back a bit, and guys like Hooper, Pocock, Slipper, Fardy, JOC (James O'Connor) and Folau come to the fore.

Bringing it back to specific moments clouds the debate a bit, as it can cast someone as brilliant for slotting an 81st minute kick to win it, completely neglecting their play for the preceeding 80 minutes of the game.

Likewise the reverse is also true- you could put in a pretty decent performance, but be forever tarred by one act of bad play. Quade Cooper in the RWC Semi Final springs to mind, here.
.

OK, under that definition I would agree. Probably a question of semantics, but I would call that being a strong Test match performer (which of course carries its own pressure) rather than being a particularly strong "pressure" player. Probably a bit of a misunderstanding on my part. If that is the case though, then Gregan's comments are a bit of "dog bites man", and nothing really ground breaking. Of course we should pick players that perform well in real test matches rather than guys who do well in Super games or against minnows.

 

[Chris McCracken]

Toby Smith was born in Queensland.

Thanks. I had just assumed he was an out and out Kiwi

 

[Viking]

By the same token, Beale is also one of the few players we can select who has delivered in clutch situations for the Wallabies (and like most of our players, also failed in those situations).

I agree with the premise, but it doesn't really help the situation. Cheika will pick who he thinks the best players are.

It's not like we have a whole bunch of players (or perhaps any players) who fit the bill for being able to deliver under extreme pressure but would be less favoured on form or ability compared to other players who are likely to be selected.

If anything, selecting a team with this idea in mind is likely to be a positive for Beale rather than a negative against some of the players he is up against for selection.

We certainly don't have many players that 100% fit the bill. Maybe AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Pocock, Hooper, Moore, Fardy meet the criteria. However we certainly have players who are MORE LIKELY to perform better under pressure given their low error rates, calm attitudes on the field, experience and skill-set.
That certainly supports the arguments of:
To'omua > Beale
Phipps > Genia/White

 

[Viking]

I don't think the premise of wanting players who can perform under extreme pressure is really going to have much influence on selections because I don't think you can easily pinpoint players who are majorly advantaged or disadvantaged by that.

It's not easy to pinpoint but its possible.

Lilo's last match - missed a kick from right in front, followed by a 2-3mins of errors - thumbled ball, followed by an up-and-under which literally went straight up. Although he did manage to recover after that is was clear the missed kick affected his confidence for a short period.

Jesse Mogg - has all the skills of a compete fullback cracks under pressure. When he makes one mistake he rarely recovers from it and it snowballs into more. Unlike Lilo it doesn't only last 5minutes it lasts the whole game.

Beale has the same history and so did Cooper. Cooper has gotten significantly better. Beale slightly.

Foley - Last Test season, dying minutes of the game, team under pressure, decides to kick the ball to opposition.

White - Same as Foley. last Test season, dying minutes of the game, team under pressure, decides to kick the ball to opposition.

The poor decision making in key moments by White and Foley, or the ease of which Beales, Moggs, Lilo confidence effects there performance will and should negatively effect there Test selections.

 

[daz]

Am I the only one who considers stirzacker our second best half back atm?

As of right now, if Cheiks was to name his Wallaby 9's for the RWC, I can't imagine him not having 1. Phipps 2. Stirzacker on his team sheet.

 

[BDA]

Nice to see Cooper will be back ahead of schedule.

Looks like he'll be fit for 3, possibly 4 games before the season ends. Might not sound like a big difference but two games was very touch and go, especially considering that the last two games are against particularly tough opposition. An extra game will allow him to find some rhythm before the season ends.

 

[daz]

Battle of the 12's.

1. Anthony Fainga’a (Reds)
2. Kurtley Beale (Tahs)
3. Kyle Goodwin (Force)
5. Matt To'omua (Brumbies)
6. Mitch Inman (Rebels)

Who else has had significant game time at 12 for each province this year? I'm not talking about guys that CAN play 12 (Harris, Horne, etc). I'm looking for guys that have pulled on the #12 jumper enough in 2015 to be in the mix as a pure inside centre Wallaby selection.

At the moment, you would have to say To'omua and Beale would be the automatic selections, although To'omua is going to miss a fair bit of Super Rugby game time due to his injury.

How would you all rank the above guys in order of selection preference?

My ranking would be:

1. To'omua
2. Beale
3. Inman
4. Fainga'a/Goodwin

And my personal bias aside, I'm wavering between switching Beale and Inman around in order. I'm only keeping it as is due to Beale being a proven International, although as pointed out by others, he hasn't really set the world on fire in the last few years.

Thoughts?

 

[Jagman]

Horne doesn't put on the 12 jumper but he stands at inside center a lot for the Tahs. Mostly on defense though.


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[fatprop]

Battle of the 12's.

1. Anthony Fainga’a (Reds)
2. Kurtley Beale (Tahs)
3. Kyle Goodwin (Force)
5. Matt To'omua (Brumbies)
6. Mitch Inman (Rebels)

Who else has had significant game time at 12 for each province this year? I'm not talking about guys that CAN play 12 (Harris, Horne, etc). I'm looking for guys that have pulled on the #12 jumper enough in 2015 to be in the mix as a pure inside centre Wallaby selection.

At the moment, you would have to say To'omua and Beale would be the automatic selections, although To'omua is going to miss a fair bit of Super Rugby game time due to his injury.

How would you all rank the above guys in order of selection preference?

My ranking would be:

1. To'omua
2. Beale
3. Inman
4. Fainga'a/Goodwin

And my personal bias aside, I'm wavering between switching Beale and Inman around in order. I'm only keeping it as is due to Beale being a proven International.

Thoughts?

1. To'omua
2. Lilo

daylight

3 Beale

4/5 Inman /Horne (both would do the job, but not offer that extra something)

 

[Braveheart81]

Realistically, I'd pick Inman as the form 12 in Australia. I don't know if he's likely to be selected though. If To'omua struggles to return from injury, Inman's chances skyrocket because of his dominant defence.

To'omua doesn't play there in Super Rugby but I think is an almost certain starter at 12 for the Wallabies.

I think you can pretty much guarantee that Giteau will be involved in our Rugby Championship squad and if he's good enough he'll be right in the mix for RWC selections. 12 is definitely his premier position although I'm not sure he'll push ahead of To'omua. His defence is excellent but it isn't dominant and I think To'omua will stay ahead on that basis.

Beale is a likely member of the squad but in my view needs to have a strong finish to the season because his form this year hasn't been good enough. He's right in the mix with a few players like Leali'ifano, Giteau, Horne, JOC (James O'Connor) for the last couple of back spots for the RWC squad. Beale is realistically battling to be the first choice utility back bench option. I don't see him being in the mix for the starting 12 role at test level.