Dave Beat
Paul McLean (56)
I see this more and more now, the 2 in the tram tracks isn't the norm now. I see it at club, super, and internationals.
Wallabies v. Springboks, 18th July 2015, Suncorp, Brisbane
- Thread starter KOB1987
- Start date
- Status
Ruggo
Mark Ella (57)
Pfitzy, post #1176 is pretty much on the money. Couple of things I would change is give Arnold his shot off the bench over Skelton. I say this because I want to see him tested before we go into the Bledisloe's. The other change would be Giteau out for To'omua in a direct swap. That extra starch makes all the difference. Giteau as always tried his guts out but just doesn't have it to combine with Cooper. The dynamic is all wrong where To'omua fits both an impact option and a second playmaker.
KOB1987
Rod McCall (65)
If they are going to do it for a full 80 then it potentially means mccalman and fardy sharing a game. Which is a rather enticing proposition.
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Sword of Justice
Vay Wilson (31)
Every starting forward needs to have a think about their relationship with attacking rucks.
Higgers is surely gone, wouldn't consider him for the bench even. Kepu was MIA in my opinion too. Skelton draws in defenders but gave away one or two dreadful penalties, isn't able to push proper angles in scrums and doesn't like lifting in lineouts either. Fardy needs to aim up in terms of his impact, good lineout work though, managed to get a steal I think (v. impressive against that bok team.
Slipper, Simmons, Moore had solid games. Slipper was a little quiet but is a leader IMO but would regret not fixing his body earlier - good hits in D and his scrum work was okay and improved with Holmes and Horwill with him. Simmons calling in the lineout was perfect and had a few good involvements but needs to aim up, as ever, around the park. Can't fault Moore but not in his best form, looked to be raising his level a little so hopefully that continues.
Hooper had some amazing moments, the balance of the back row in the first half did not suit us, Pocock coming on allows him to really shine, should start together with Fardy.
Sio and Holmes immense, nothing more to say. Horwill surprised me, was skeptical but played very well, and even refused to get drawn into anything with that Bruno guy playing in the second row. Pocock our best player, allows Hooper to shine and committed them to the rucks which made things easier for our backs.
Higgers is surely gone, wouldn't consider him for the bench even. Kepu was MIA in my opinion too. Skelton draws in defenders but gave away one or two dreadful penalties, isn't able to push proper angles in scrums and doesn't like lifting in lineouts either. Fardy needs to aim up in terms of his impact, good lineout work though, managed to get a steal I think (v. impressive against that bok team.
Slipper, Simmons, Moore had solid games. Slipper was a little quiet but is a leader IMO but would regret not fixing his body earlier - good hits in D and his scrum work was okay and improved with Holmes and Horwill with him. Simmons calling in the lineout was perfect and had a few good involvements but needs to aim up, as ever, around the park. Can't fault Moore but not in his best form, looked to be raising his level a little so hopefully that continues.
Hooper had some amazing moments, the balance of the back row in the first half did not suit us, Pocock coming on allows him to really shine, should start together with Fardy.
Sio and Holmes immense, nothing more to say. Horwill surprised me, was skeptical but played very well, and even refused to get drawn into anything with that Bruno guy playing in the second row. Pocock our best player, allows Hooper to shine and committed them to the rucks which made things easier for our backs.
Dismal Pillock
Simon Poidevin (60)
https://www.song365.co/track/herbie-hancock-introduction-of-playerseye-of-the-hurricane-146244.html
"....... first of all, let me introduce you to the band, starting off, on the bench, the greatest...... the greatest..... Will Jellyroll Skelton, Will Jellyroll Skelton ladies and gentlemen......."
Dave Beat
Paul McLean (56)
Really????
Wingers stopped throwing the ball in because line outs had the attacking team getting the ball and having speed out wide was preferred.
Hookers gradually drifted from the tram tracks when lifting became prominent, prior to that a good hooking could get scraps when the ball was poorly tapped to the half. Now with clean ball it is thought having the muscle and defense in the line would be better suited. Then if do get a steal off the line out, having a settler or a piggy midfield is often helpful.
You can't have a player stand in the tram tracks when it our throw, and when it is the oppositions through how often is the play back through the tram tracks.
I think this evolution is a smart one when breaking it down.
the sabanator
Ron Walden (29)
I don't see Hooper/Poey as a conundrum anymore. It's a deadset game changing asset. They both play hard, work hard around the park, hit hard and are A+ defenders. Pocock's point of difference is his breakdown play, Hooper's is his running. By playing both at the expense of Fardy/an 8, I really don't think we lose anything and gain everything.
Different sport, but there's been a push in the NBA the past few years to 'positionless basketball' where you get your best 5 on the floor. It's a different situation, but I think Hooper and Pocock are our best two players - we find a way to get them both on the field for 80.
Different sport, but there's been a push in the NBA the past few years to 'positionless basketball' where you get your best 5 on the floor. It's a different situation, but I think Hooper and Pocock are our best two players - we find a way to get them both on the field for 80.
Sword of Justice
Vay Wilson (31)
Backs struggled due to poor ruck work at the coal face by our starting forwards, but Genia was still slow. He wasn't terrible but he wasn't as good as Phipps.
Quade I thought played solidly but without distinction. Would be disappointed by the lack of opportunities he was able to create but he was crisp and the execution was mostly good. Giteau I do not believe is test standard. Some of his faults were due to not being in the international arena for a while (speed & execution, we know he is capable of these things) but some were not (the guy is small - unfortunate, he cannot straighten even when he wants to and I don't think he ever really has been able to.
Kuridrani IMO was having a mare before that fantastic try which perhaps only Kerevi could have also scored out of all Australian backs. He needs to work on his handling however. Folau was excellent and I thought AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) was very good too. Horne I didn't notice very much of.
Our reserves were very good. Phipps puts things into motion and will have been starting even without Genia's injury. I believe our best playmaking pairing is Quade and To'omua interchanging 10 and 12 as seen in 2013 EOYT. To'omua was just incredible he managed to straighten and present full house of options (can pass, can kick in open play, can take contact, can step) which allows the 10 to play more freely when the D line is on notice. Although I think Foley could be very good at 10 as well with To'omua outside. Mitchell was very solid and did hard work but I think he should remain on the bench with Tomane coming into the starting team for Horne.
Quade I thought played solidly but without distinction. Would be disappointed by the lack of opportunities he was able to create but he was crisp and the execution was mostly good. Giteau I do not believe is test standard. Some of his faults were due to not being in the international arena for a while (speed & execution, we know he is capable of these things) but some were not (the guy is small - unfortunate, he cannot straighten even when he wants to and I don't think he ever really has been able to.
Kuridrani IMO was having a mare before that fantastic try which perhaps only Kerevi could have also scored out of all Australian backs. He needs to work on his handling however. Folau was excellent and I thought AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) was very good too. Horne I didn't notice very much of.
Our reserves were very good. Phipps puts things into motion and will have been starting even without Genia's injury. I believe our best playmaking pairing is Quade and To'omua interchanging 10 and 12 as seen in 2013 EOYT. To'omua was just incredible he managed to straighten and present full house of options (can pass, can kick in open play, can take contact, can step) which allows the 10 to play more freely when the D line is on notice. Although I think Foley could be very good at 10 as well with To'omua outside. Mitchell was very solid and did hard work but I think he should remain on the bench with Tomane coming into the starting team for Horne.
Dave Beat
Paul McLean (56)
In summary, Phipps, QC (Quade Cooper), To'omua, and Kuindrani, i reckon this combo will develop into awesome - but needs game, after game to develop.
Teh Other Dave
Alan Cameron (40)
It was a mixed bag of awful and sublime from both sides, not unexpected given the experimental nature of both line ups.
These tests will allow Meyer to sort the wheat from the chaff, and hopefully put a bit of starch into the reserves. Your starting XV tore us apart at the breakdown (big bodies cleaning out hard and accurately), and their defence was solid.
Teh Other Dave
Alan Cameron (40)
^^hmm, I might be carbo loading in my analogies.
Marcelo
Ken Catchpole (46)
My starting XV against the Pumas:
1 Sio
2 Moore (c)
3 Holmes
4 Simmons
5 Horwill
6 Fardy
7 Pocock
8 McCalman
9 Phipps
10 Giteau
11 Tomane
12 To'omua
13 Kuridrani
14 AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
15 Folau
16 Polota-Nau
17 Slipper
18 Kepu
19 Skelton
20 Hooper
21 Genia
22 Foley
23 Naiyaravoro
I would like to see Naiyaravoro 20 minutes as impact player at test level and I prefer test him against Argies than the ABs
1 Sio
2 Moore (c)
3 Holmes
4 Simmons
5 Horwill
6 Fardy
7 Pocock
8 McCalman
9 Phipps
10 Giteau
11 Tomane
12 To'omua
13 Kuridrani
14 AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
15 Folau
16 Polota-Nau
17 Slipper
18 Kepu
19 Skelton
20 Hooper
21 Genia
22 Foley
23 Naiyaravoro
I would like to see Naiyaravoro 20 minutes as impact player at test level and I prefer test him against Argies than the ABs
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
We can't rely on the best line out jumper from the opposition going off injured each game though.
Marcelo
Ken Catchpole (46)
Really? So we are going to see him against the ABs
What is the squad for the Latin America tour?
jollyswagman
Ron Walden (29)
Just finished watching the game for the third time. I watched live last night, replayed it this morning and then stop-go on the recording while making some notes just now. I was curious to find out if my earlier thoughts were completely wrong as I just couldn't see how the Giteau / QC (Quade Cooper) criticism could be justified. I am not sure if anyone is interested in reading all of this, but I made a note to the critical points in the match (good & bad) and who was involved in each moment). I was surprised to see how often some of the players who supposedly had a great game last might came up short, and how little impact the errors of the highly criticized players had on the overall result. I did my best to note ea.ch moment and remain as unbiased as I could...so have at it if you wish.
0.33 missed tackle by Higgenbotham
0.45 dominant tackle by Hooper on Berger
1.00 QC (Quade Cooper) fields clearing kick and return with nice kick toward sideline fielded by le rueux who then kicks the ball out on the full.
2.08 Giteau takes the ball to line but Simmons & Moore completelty ineffectual at cleaning out BDP - turnover SA
2.23 SA clearing to kick to Folau who then kicks the ball ouut on the full
3.50 Skelton off-side at the ruck - penalty SA - penalty shot off the post
5.00 Genia fields bomb, QC (Quade Cooper) with nice kick into touch on SA 22 - 45m gain
5.47 Folau drops high ball - scrum to SA
7.12 Giteau sweeping and picks up intercept - turnover AUS
7.45 Giteau sweeping picks up offload in contact from Skelton, nice wide pass to put Folau into space.
8.18 Skelton over the adline but no support, Simmons and TK pathetic cleanout - FL pilfer - turnover SA
10.45 Genia knock on at the base of ruck
11.59 Horne rushes up & in - defensive error and SA make big yards down the far side before QC (Quade Cooper) & Giteau combine to bring down de allende
13.42 AUS scrum monstered underneath post but good work by Higgers to get the ball to Genia who clears to touch
14.16 Hooper offside from lineout - penalty SA -shot at goal successful
AUS 0 - SA 3
17.14 Giteau sweeping collects loose ball from slipper, lovely pass to Higgers in space who then kicks the ball dead
20.12 ACC takes short ball from Genia but is isolated, Hooper ineffectual cleanout - penalty SA
21.52 Folau fields midfield bomb, breaks defensive line but runs away from support and play breaks down.
22.08 Giteau floats long pass to unmarked Horne but ball into touch.
22.59 Cooper knock-on from high ball - turnover SA - Genia tackle to put BDP into touch - lineout AUS
22.43 dominant scrum SA - scrum penalty to SA - shot at goal successful
AUS 0 - SA 6
27.13 BDP offside at ruck - penalty AUS - shot at goal missed by QC (Quade Cooper)
30.00 QC (Quade Cooper), TK, Horne combine well to make god meters before plays breaking down at ruck with Higgers playing ball in offside position - penalty SA
31.51 AUS hot on attack, skelton gets over ad-line but isolated, Simmons completely ineffective in cleaning out BDP - turnover SA
32.56 Beautiful set piece try - Giteau to QC (Quade Cooper) inside to AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) - QC (Quade Cooper) converts
AUS 7 - SA 6
35.12 Higgers lineout win on SA throw - turnover AUS
36.46 Hooper dominant tackle
36.58 Folau missed tackle inside 22
37.28 Folau fails to secure pollard chip kick - SA try in the corner - Pollard converts
AUS 7 - SA 13
39.37 poor restart from QC (Quade Cooper) fails to go 10, Moore, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) & Genia all fail to tackle Etzebeth. QC (Quade Cooper) tackles etzebeth.
40.05 TK drops off de allende before Giteau makes the tackle
40.23 Moore poor attempted tackle on BDP - easy yards for SA follow
40.48 Giteau good tackle - skelton missed tackle
41.54 AUS counter inside 22, Cooper hail-mary behind the back pass, turnover to SA
42.40 with SA pressuring the line QC (Quade Cooper) strips BDP over the line - turnover AUS - ball kicked dead
SECOND HALF - Phipps on for Genia
40.20 Folau nice take from box kick
41.00 Phipps pass to nobody goes to ground
41.19 Slipper driven back in tackle, Moore & Kepu zero support before Etzebeth & BDP turnover - penalty to SA
43.36 Moore slips FF (Folau Fainga'a) tackle
43.40 Skelton missed tackle
43.59 Slipper, Folau & Phipps all miss Kriel - try to SA (shocking defense) - Pollard converts
AUS 7 - SA 20
46.00 Pocock on for Higgenbotham
46.49 Good run from Giteau over the ad-line
47.20 Fardy got hit up to within 7m of try line but Simmons is ineffective at cleanout and BDP pilfers
47.21 BDP clearing kick charged down by Pocock, who cahse BH and tackles him in goal - 5M scrum AUS feed - Pocock brilliant
48.37 TK knocks on short ball from QC (Quade Cooper) right on line - pressure off.
49.02 BDP & Beast off - Strauss and VDM on (SA all new front row, also minus VM & FL at this point)
49.23 Scrum penatly to SA (Skelton off - Horwill on)
50.51 SA offside at ruck - penalty AUS - QC (Quade Cooper) kick penalty
AUS 10 - SA 20
55.15 Pocock great tackle on VLR and forces penalty - brilliant
57.34 Giteau takes the ball to the line but is held up - scrum SA (Horne off - Mitchell on)
59.33 Penalty to AUS at scrum (SA collapsing) QC (Quade Cooper) bad misses very kickable goal - 22 restart
61.58 QC (Quade Cooper) runs to the line before passing to Giteau who slices through the line but pops poor pass to Folau and play breaks down
63.26 Slipper misses the hit at scru - free kick to SA
63.25 Folau takes high ball but Moore, Simmon & Fardy are unable to support at ruck - turnover to SA
64.16 Simmons & Fardy offside - penalty to SA who failed to find touch (Mitchell keeps it in, Hooper to QC (Quade Cooper) who clear with a solid kick taking play back to halfway line)
65.42 To'omua on for QC (Quade Cooper)
66.13 To'omua inside ball to Giteau who get smashed (rib / chest injury from this tackle)
66.36 To'omua to tline before throwing lovely ball to Folau in space, Mitchel does well to stay in field of play.
67.09 Fardy hits ball up but FOlau and To'omua unable to cleanout Pollard who wins penalty - Fardy not releasing.
67.35 Giteau to blood bin - Cooper back on (Pollard off - Lambie on)
68.44 Folau to the line but gets isolated - SA pilfer but Owens penalizes for going off feet (lucky) - AUS kick to corner for lineout
69.50 AUS pressuring SA try line before Simmons drops the ball in contact - scrum SA feed.
70.50 Brilliant scrum by AUS - Hooper drives Berger back over the line (brilliant) 5m scrum AUS feed.
72.22 Solid Aussie scrum wins penalty - Moore takes scrum option
73.30 Phipps great short ball to Hooper who crosses the line - QC (Quade Cooper) converts try (QC (Quade Cooper) off - Giteau bacck from blood bin)
AUS 17 - SA 20
75.49 To'omua trys grubber through but hooks it into touch (poor option)
76.30 Folau great high ball take in traffic
77.02 SA offside - Giteau misses shot at goal - 22m restart
79.14 AUS pressuring inside SA half but Moore is isolated, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) & Hooper can't clear out SA - turnover SA (30 sec remaining)
79.37 SA going off feet - penalty AUS - kick to corner
81.41 TK goes over for try - Giteau converts
AUS 24 - SA 20
Moore & Simmons were both very poor at the ruck, both failing on numerous times to secure our own ball when we were hot on attack.
Folau was excellent under the high ball but he did make a few errors, a couple of which led directly to SA trys.
Phipps had a positive impact in terms of lifting the game tempo but made quite of few errors not to mention a pathetic attempt to stop Kriel on his way to scoring.
QC (Quade Cooper) made very few mistakes (restart & hail mary the worst) but hassled hard immediately after to make amends. He was actually quite strong in defense making some great tackles at critical times but I am sure that will paid no mind by his detractors.
The much lauded To'omua & TK both made a couple of blunders at critical times in the match.
0.33 missed tackle by Higgenbotham
0.45 dominant tackle by Hooper on Berger
1.00 QC (Quade Cooper) fields clearing kick and return with nice kick toward sideline fielded by le rueux who then kicks the ball out on the full.
2.08 Giteau takes the ball to line but Simmons & Moore completelty ineffectual at cleaning out BDP - turnover SA
2.23 SA clearing to kick to Folau who then kicks the ball ouut on the full
3.50 Skelton off-side at the ruck - penalty SA - penalty shot off the post
5.00 Genia fields bomb, QC (Quade Cooper) with nice kick into touch on SA 22 - 45m gain
5.47 Folau drops high ball - scrum to SA
7.12 Giteau sweeping and picks up intercept - turnover AUS
7.45 Giteau sweeping picks up offload in contact from Skelton, nice wide pass to put Folau into space.
8.18 Skelton over the adline but no support, Simmons and TK pathetic cleanout - FL pilfer - turnover SA
10.45 Genia knock on at the base of ruck
11.59 Horne rushes up & in - defensive error and SA make big yards down the far side before QC (Quade Cooper) & Giteau combine to bring down de allende
13.42 AUS scrum monstered underneath post but good work by Higgers to get the ball to Genia who clears to touch
14.16 Hooper offside from lineout - penalty SA -shot at goal successful
AUS 0 - SA 3
17.14 Giteau sweeping collects loose ball from slipper, lovely pass to Higgers in space who then kicks the ball dead
20.12 ACC takes short ball from Genia but is isolated, Hooper ineffectual cleanout - penalty SA
21.52 Folau fields midfield bomb, breaks defensive line but runs away from support and play breaks down.
22.08 Giteau floats long pass to unmarked Horne but ball into touch.
22.59 Cooper knock-on from high ball - turnover SA - Genia tackle to put BDP into touch - lineout AUS
22.43 dominant scrum SA - scrum penalty to SA - shot at goal successful
AUS 0 - SA 6
27.13 BDP offside at ruck - penalty AUS - shot at goal missed by QC (Quade Cooper)
30.00 QC (Quade Cooper), TK, Horne combine well to make god meters before plays breaking down at ruck with Higgers playing ball in offside position - penalty SA
31.51 AUS hot on attack, skelton gets over ad-line but isolated, Simmons completely ineffective in cleaning out BDP - turnover SA
32.56 Beautiful set piece try - Giteau to QC (Quade Cooper) inside to AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) - QC (Quade Cooper) converts
AUS 7 - SA 6
35.12 Higgers lineout win on SA throw - turnover AUS
36.46 Hooper dominant tackle
36.58 Folau missed tackle inside 22
37.28 Folau fails to secure pollard chip kick - SA try in the corner - Pollard converts
AUS 7 - SA 13
39.37 poor restart from QC (Quade Cooper) fails to go 10, Moore, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) & Genia all fail to tackle Etzebeth. QC (Quade Cooper) tackles etzebeth.
40.05 TK drops off de allende before Giteau makes the tackle
40.23 Moore poor attempted tackle on BDP - easy yards for SA follow
40.48 Giteau good tackle - skelton missed tackle
41.54 AUS counter inside 22, Cooper hail-mary behind the back pass, turnover to SA
42.40 with SA pressuring the line QC (Quade Cooper) strips BDP over the line - turnover AUS - ball kicked dead
SECOND HALF - Phipps on for Genia
40.20 Folau nice take from box kick
41.00 Phipps pass to nobody goes to ground
41.19 Slipper driven back in tackle, Moore & Kepu zero support before Etzebeth & BDP turnover - penalty to SA
43.36 Moore slips FF (Folau Fainga'a) tackle
43.40 Skelton missed tackle
43.59 Slipper, Folau & Phipps all miss Kriel - try to SA (shocking defense) - Pollard converts
AUS 7 - SA 20
46.00 Pocock on for Higgenbotham
46.49 Good run from Giteau over the ad-line
47.20 Fardy got hit up to within 7m of try line but Simmons is ineffective at cleanout and BDP pilfers
47.21 BDP clearing kick charged down by Pocock, who cahse BH and tackles him in goal - 5M scrum AUS feed - Pocock brilliant
48.37 TK knocks on short ball from QC (Quade Cooper) right on line - pressure off.
49.02 BDP & Beast off - Strauss and VDM on (SA all new front row, also minus VM & FL at this point)
49.23 Scrum penatly to SA (Skelton off - Horwill on)
50.51 SA offside at ruck - penalty AUS - QC (Quade Cooper) kick penalty
AUS 10 - SA 20
55.15 Pocock great tackle on VLR and forces penalty - brilliant
57.34 Giteau takes the ball to the line but is held up - scrum SA (Horne off - Mitchell on)
59.33 Penalty to AUS at scrum (SA collapsing) QC (Quade Cooper) bad misses very kickable goal - 22 restart
61.58 QC (Quade Cooper) runs to the line before passing to Giteau who slices through the line but pops poor pass to Folau and play breaks down
63.26 Slipper misses the hit at scru - free kick to SA
63.25 Folau takes high ball but Moore, Simmon & Fardy are unable to support at ruck - turnover to SA
64.16 Simmons & Fardy offside - penalty to SA who failed to find touch (Mitchell keeps it in, Hooper to QC (Quade Cooper) who clear with a solid kick taking play back to halfway line)
65.42 To'omua on for QC (Quade Cooper)
66.13 To'omua inside ball to Giteau who get smashed (rib / chest injury from this tackle)
66.36 To'omua to tline before throwing lovely ball to Folau in space, Mitchel does well to stay in field of play.
67.09 Fardy hits ball up but FOlau and To'omua unable to cleanout Pollard who wins penalty - Fardy not releasing.
67.35 Giteau to blood bin - Cooper back on (Pollard off - Lambie on)
68.44 Folau to the line but gets isolated - SA pilfer but Owens penalizes for going off feet (lucky) - AUS kick to corner for lineout
69.50 AUS pressuring SA try line before Simmons drops the ball in contact - scrum SA feed.
70.50 Brilliant scrum by AUS - Hooper drives Berger back over the line (brilliant) 5m scrum AUS feed.
72.22 Solid Aussie scrum wins penalty - Moore takes scrum option
73.30 Phipps great short ball to Hooper who crosses the line - QC (Quade Cooper) converts try (QC (Quade Cooper) off - Giteau bacck from blood bin)
AUS 17 - SA 20
75.49 To'omua trys grubber through but hooks it into touch (poor option)
76.30 Folau great high ball take in traffic
77.02 SA offside - Giteau misses shot at goal - 22m restart
79.14 AUS pressuring inside SA half but Moore is isolated, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) & Hooper can't clear out SA - turnover SA (30 sec remaining)
79.37 SA going off feet - penalty AUS - kick to corner
81.41 TK goes over for try - Giteau converts
AUS 24 - SA 20
Moore & Simmons were both very poor at the ruck, both failing on numerous times to secure our own ball when we were hot on attack.
Folau was excellent under the high ball but he did make a few errors, a couple of which led directly to SA trys.
Phipps had a positive impact in terms of lifting the game tempo but made quite of few errors not to mention a pathetic attempt to stop Kriel on his way to scoring.
QC (Quade Cooper) made very few mistakes (restart & hail mary the worst) but hassled hard immediately after to make amends. He was actually quite strong in defense making some great tackles at critical times but I am sure that will paid no mind by his detractors.
The much lauded To'omua & TK both made a couple of blunders at critical times in the match.
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